[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Addshore]

Addshore added a comment.


  So T267363  is set to be looked at 
in our prioritization session soon and then by some folks.
  We decided that case 1 should probably be an edit conflict, but as the issue 
doesn't surface very often we likely won't invest dev resources to turn it into 
an edit conflict at this stage.
  Case 2 probably should not be and edit conflict, we won't be doing anything 
there.
  Not sure what to do with this ticket given those decisions?

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To: Addshore
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CBogen, holger.knust, Ramsey-WMF, Addshore, DannyS712, Aklapper, Multichill, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Addshore]

Addshore added a comment.


  Quickly discussed with Lydia and Sam after our sync call today:
  
  **1# We will investigate the "final point" being the MCR issue** with 
baserevid and see if we can get closer to what needs to happen there. (This 
could then land on one of us, or on the core team)
  
  TBA ticket
  
  **2#** We discussed the possibility of adding more **edit conflict 
situations** in Wikibase but **didn't come to a final conclusion**.
  The main points here are:
  
  - These issues have not surfaced since the edit conflict rules etc were setup 
in 2013, thus they obviously do not cause that much of an issue (nothing has 
changed here), so **if this is a one off pain**, it **might not be worth 
touching anything**
  - @Lydia_Pintscher will come back to this "is it worth it" point at some 
point.
  - Even if we agree that it may not be worth it to be prioritized ahead of 
other things right now, it might still be nice to have at some point in the 
future, as the edit conflict condition does make some sense.
  - **The second bold issue** discussed in T263298#6586005 
 which we currently created 
`ignoreduplicatemainsnak` for **will likely never become an edit conflict 
issue**.
- We also don't think it makes sense to include this extra functionality in 
our baseline future REST API.
- This will mean that T234457  
**will need to be solved in a different way** in the future. (as part of the 
CAT tool, or as a MediaInfo / CAT tool specific API) as mentioned in the 
comment above.
  
  I hope my inline bold is not too annoying here.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Addshore]

Addshore added a comment.


  In T263298#6564942 , 
@Ramsey-WMF wrote:
  
  > @Lydia_Pintscher and @Samantha_Alipio_WMDE - given that WMDE is drafting 
new stuff for the REST API, I'd defer to you on ideas for how this kind of 
change should apply in more general use cases. On our side, we're fine with a 
param on wbeditentity
  
  Taking some snippets of thought from an email I sent recently on this matter 
(and recording them here for all to see and so they are not lost)
  
  ---
  
  So this also somewhat ties in with the use of, or potential use of baserevid 
and how conflicts are resolved or merged.
  
  If you simply make 2 edits adding the same statement one after another with 
no baserevid then the server should probably not complain at all. (no edit 
conflict)
  If you make 2 edits adding the exact same statement one after another with 
the same baserevid, then perhaps the server should complain? (right now it 
doesn't and successfully merges the changes).
  //This edit conflict possibility would be a product decision for Wikibase / 
Wikidata//
  
  The expectation then would be that client correctly set the baserevid for 
their edits and for the situation a conflict would then be triggered.
  The "situation" in one sentence would be, **adding a statement that is 
exactly the same as another statement that was not in the baserevid, but is in 
the newer version**.
  Fixing this will likely involve some code changes in areas we havn't touched 
since 2013/14, and I have no estimate as to how much work this would be right 
now.
  
  This original usecase (covered by ignoreduplicatemainsnak) is slightly 
different to this and probably best handed to the client and mediainfo 
extension and they could create a specialized REST endpoint for it
  This endpoint would check if the tagging thing wants to make the edit or not, 
and then set the claim, rather than using wbsetclaim directly.
  If we wanted to include it in wikibase as an edit conflict rule we would end 
up with something like:
  **Adding a statement with a mainsnak the same as another statement mainsnak 
that was not in the baserevid, but is in the newer version. **
  //This edit conflict possibility would be a product decision for Wikibase / 
Wikidata//
  
  A final point that is then also relevant here:
  When a file on commons does not get have a media info entity attached to it, 
you can not use a baserevid in Wikibase API calls
  This is a small issue with the MCR integration that someone will need to 
tackle for the edit conflict rules to be able to work in all cases.

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CBogen, holger.knust, Ramsey-WMF, Addshore, DannyS712, Aklapper, Multichill, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Ramsey-WMF]

Ramsey-WMF added a comment.


  @Lydia_Pintscher and @Samantha_Alipio_WMDE - given that WMDE is drafting new 
stuff for the REST API, I'd defer to you on ideas for how this kind of change 
should apply in more general use cases. On our side, we're fine with a param on 
wbsetentity

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Multichill]

Multichill added a comment.


  Stepping back a bit. Wbeditentity should work more like the normal edit 
(action=edit) with things like how to handle edit conflicts and also minor 
edits.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Addshore]

Addshore added a subscriber: Samantha_Alipio_WMDE.
Addshore added a comment.


  In T263298#6539196 , 
@Cparle wrote:
  
  > Ok @Multichill I've talked with @Addshore and we think possibly the 
simplest thing is to introduce a param that you can pass with the api call to 
ask it to throw an error if there's a duplicate. Does that work for you?
  
  So, just to clarify, such an API param already exists on `wbsetclaim` and it 
was introduced in T234457: [M] Don't create a duplicate depicts statement upon 
label approval .
  I'm not sure if it makes sense to introduce this in in wbeditentity.
  
  Looking forward to a REST Api as well, this would make sense as an option on 
a statement API endpoint, but perhaps not at an entity level.
  
  I still think we should hear from @Ramsey-WMF, @Lydia_Pintscher and 
@Samantha_Alipio_WMDE here from the product side.
  It's easy to make changes, but the real question is what should this part of 
the product look like and what behaviour do we want to by default and as 
options present to the users.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Cparle]

Cparle added a comment.


  Ok @Multichill I've talked with @Addshore and we think possibly the simplest 
thing is to introduce a param that you can pass with the api call to ask it to 
throw an error if there's a duplicate. Does that work for you?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Multichill]

Multichill added a comment.


  I just noticed this mid air collision: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3ANSG_Salmorth_PM19-09.jpg=revision=485124008=485009736
 .
  If I understand Adman correctly, adding the option to use baserevid won't 
solve this. Using wbsetclaim isn't really an option because edits like this 
would take 8 edits instead of one. Maybe introduce baserevid and some kind of 
option for the bot to indicate that it wants strict checking instead of a 
warning?
  
  Looking at the edit conflict options for action=edit:
  baserevid
  
ID of the base revision, used to detect edit conflicts. May be obtained 
through action=query=revisions. Self-conflicts cause the edit to fail 
unless basetimestamp is set. 
Type: integer
  
  basetimestamp
  
Timestamp of the base revision, used to detect edit conflicts. May be 
obtained through action=query=revisions=timestamp. Self-conflicts 
are ignored. 
Type: timestamp (allowed formats)
  
  starttimestamp
  
Timestamp when the editing process began, used to detect edit conflicts. An 
appropriate value may be obtained using curtimestamp when beginning the edit 
process (e.g. when loading the page content to edit). 
  
  Maybe we can bring things closer together here?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Ramsey-WMF]

Ramsey-WMF added a subscriber: Cparle.
Ramsey-WMF added a comment.


  Based on discussion today, @Cparle will reach out to @Addshore to discuss 
technical implications of changing things here.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[CBogen]

CBogen added a project: Structured-Data-Backlog.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Addshore]

Addshore added a subscriber: Lydia_Pintscher.
Addshore added a comment.


  So as @Multichill points out if no structured data exists and you try to make 
an edit while providing a baserevid you get:
  
{
"error": {
"code": "nosuchrevid",
"info": "Revision with ID not found.",
"messages": [
{
"name": "wikibase-api-nosuchrevid",
"parameters": [],
"html": {
"*": "Revision with ID not found."
}
}
],
"*": "See https://test-commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API 
usage. Subscribe to the mediawiki-api-announce mailing list at 
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-api-announce; for 
notice of API deprecations and breaking changes."
},
"servedby": "mw2368"
}
  
  This sounds like something that could be fixed (probably related to MCR etc)
  
  It looks like doing multiple queries like this ApiSandbox 

 results in multiple created statements.
  
  F32363296: image.png 
  
  This was missed during my tests in T263298#6491777 
 as I was actually providing 
an `id` in the statement serialization.
  
  Specifying a `baserevid` ends up resulting in a patch that still adds the new 
statement, and as far as I can tell this is consistent behaviour with 
wikdata.org and has been the state for a while.
  
  Not sure who wants to change what here, but I guess this needs to be 
discussed between @Ramsey-WMF and @Lydia_Pintscher
  
  T234457: [M] Don't create a duplicate depicts statement upon label approval 
 is also related I figure. 
`wbsetclaim` could be used instead of `wbeditentity` to make use of this 
functionality

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Multichill]

Multichill added a comment.


  It's only on Commons and to reproduce you need a file with no structured data 
yet. First try doing an edit with "baserevid", you'll get a nasty API error 
(that's why I'm unable to use that).
  To reproduce just do two edits close to each other from different jobs.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Addshore]

Addshore added a comment.


  So if I make subsequent requests to add the same statement It only makes and 
edit the first time. (using some api parameters that I whipped up which may not 
match what was being done in this ticket.
  See in ApiSandbox 

  Subsequent responses end up looking like this
  
{
"entity": {
"labels": {},
"descriptions": {},
"claims": {
"P95560": [
{
"mainsnak": {
"snaktype": "value",
"property": "P95560",
"hash": "a622e895bd403055234a24348a77a8125f7b3b0c",
"datavalue": {
"value": {
"entity-type": "item",
"numeric-id": 16597,
"id": "Q16597"
},
"type": "wikibase-entityid"
},
"datatype": "wikibase-item"
},
"type": "statement",
"id": "M388$7B743B1C-6B91-40FB-AB79-6469D76A4BCE",
"rank": "normal"
}
]
},
"id": "M388",
"type": "mediainfo",
"lastrevid": 3220,
"nochange": ""
},
"success": 1
}
  
  This is also the behaviour that I observe when creating 2 statements in a 
single request.
  
  When passing a baserevid (used to detect and resolve edit conflicts if 
possible) I correctly see an edit conflict warning
  
{
"error": {
"code": "editconflict",
"info": "Edit conflict. Could not patch the current revision.",
"messages": [
{
"name": "wikibase-api-editconflict",
"parameters": [],
"html": {
"*": "Edit conflict. Could not patch the current 
revision."
}
},
{
"name": "edit-conflict",
"parameters": [],
"html": {
"*": "Edit conflict."
}
}
],
"*": "See https://test-commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php for API 
usage. Subscribe to the mediawiki-api-announce mailing list at 
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-api-announce; for 
notice of API deprecations and breaking changes."
},
"servedby": "mw2297"
}

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Ramsey-WMF]

Ramsey-WMF added a comment.


  @Multichill are you only seeing this issue on Commons, or is it on Wikidata 
as well? Also, if you could point us to your bot code and the exact part where 
this conflict happens that will help us and WMDE diagnose the problem.

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[Addshore]

Addshore added a project: User-Addshore.

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To: Addshore
Cc: WMDE-leszek, CBogen, holger.knust, Ramsey-WMF, Addshore, DannyS712, 
Aklapper, Multichill, Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, WDoranWMF, Nandana, 
Amorymeltzer, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, Jayprakash12345, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Sethakill, dg711, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wong128hk, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, jayvdb, Anomie, Mbch331, Rxy, Legoktm
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[holger.knust]

holger.knust removed a project: Platform Engineering.
holger.knust added a comment.


  Untagging Platform team for now unless there is something for us to work on.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T263298

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: holger.knust
Cc: holger.knust, Ramsey-WMF, Addshore, DannyS712, Aklapper, Multichill, 
Akuckartz, darthmon_wmde, WDoranWMF, Nandana, Amorymeltzer, Lahi, Gq86, 
GoranSMilovanovic, Jayprakash12345, QZanden, LawExplorer, Sethakill, dg711, 
_jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wong128hk, Wikidata-bugs, aude, jayvdb, 
Anomie, Mbch331, Rxy, Legoktm, EvanProdromou, Agabi10, Pchelolo
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T263298: Not getting an edit conflict on two conflicting structured data edits on Commons (since MediaWiki 1.36/wmf.9?)

[Ramsey-WMF]

Ramsey-WMF added subscribers: Addshore, Ramsey-WMF.
Ramsey-WMF edited projects, added Wikidata; removed Structured-Data-Backlog, 
StructuredDataOnCommons.
Ramsey-WMF added a comment.


  @Addshore any thoughts on this? Something change in Wikibase recently?

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T263298

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Ramsey-WMF
Cc: Ramsey-WMF, Addshore, DannyS712, Aklapper, Multichill, Akuckartz, 
darthmon_wmde, WDoranWMF, holger.knust, EvanProdromou, Nandana, Amorymeltzer, 
Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, Jayprakash12345, QZanden, LawExplorer, 
Sethakill, dg711, _jensen, rosalieper, Agabi10, Scott_WUaS, Pchelolo, 
Wong128hk, Wikidata-bugs, aude, jayvdb, Anomie, Mbch331, Rxy, Legoktm, CBogen, 
JKSTNK, Lydia_Pintscher, Ltrlg
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