[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel added a comment.


  Amir now created https://query-chest.toolforge.org which can solve a lot of 
use cases! \o/

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael removed Michael as the assignee of this task.
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  Unassigning myself as, at least for now, my work here is done.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel added a comment.


  @Mahir256: No worries, I did not forget this!
  
  Stuff mentioned on Telegram:
  
  - paste.toolforge.org
  - creating a new wiki page every time will probably be too complicated to 
just send a link to someone

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel edited projects, added Wikidata-Campsite; removed Wikidata-Campsite 
(Team A Hearth ).

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel added a comment.


  Thank you @Michael! I will now try to come up with a task for the next steps.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  In T295560#7508397 , 
@Legoktm wrote:
  
  > I've never really understood why URLs are the preferred mechanism for 
storing these queries. They're nice for a one-off, but make collaboration (what 
wikis excel at) incredibly difficult, because if you want to adjust or update a 
query, you have to create a brand new URL and redistribute it.
  
  To be fair, the desired use case is probably Twitter and such:
  
  > timeline of coups d'état of the 21st century (including attempted ones): 
https://query.wikidata.org/embed.html#%23...
  
  
  
  - // https://twitter.com/WikidataFacts/status/1347165619519680512 //
  
  And the link is 
https://query.wikidata.org/embed.html#%23defaultView%3ATimeline%0ASELECT%20%3Fcoup%20%3FcoupLabel%20%28MIN%28%3Fdate%29%20AS%20%3Fdate_%29%20%28SAMPLE%28%3Fimage%29%20AS%20%3Fimage_%29%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fcoup%20wdt%3AP31%2Fwdt%3AP279*%20wd%3AQ45382%3B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20wdt%3AP585%20%3Fdate.%20hint%3APrior%20hint%3ArangeSafe%20true.%0A%20%20FILTER%28%3Fdate%20%3E%3D%20%222001-00-00%22%5E%5Exsd%3AdateTime%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%26%26%20%3Fdate%20%3C%20%222101-00-00%22%5E%5Exsd%3AdateTime%29%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fcoup%20wdt%3AP18%20%3Fimage.%20%7D%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22[AUTO_LANGUAGE]%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%7D%0AGROUP%20BY%20%3Fcoup%20%3FcoupLabel
  
  So it isn't so much about sharing the //query// as it is about sharing the 
//result// with as little overhead for the reader as possible.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Legoktm]

Legoktm added a comment.


  In T295560#7500990 , 
@Mahir256 wrote:
  
  > We have an as-yet unused "Query:" namespace 
 ; 
perhaps it could be opened for storing queries longer than 2000 characters? (A 
redirection mechanism such that a visit to any page in that namespace takes you 
to query.wikidata.org might be useful, and there ought to be a system, similar 
to what is done with CSS pages, that ensures that a query is syntactically 
correct before it can be saved to that namespace.)
  
  IIRC from the very early days when we deployed the query namespace, it was 
intended for storing queries that would generate lists, like ListeriaBot 
basically but built-in to the software. But at that time the original plan was 
to build WDQS as a MediaWiki extension rather than as a separate service. 
Namespaces are relatively cheap to add, so it would be cool to see the Query 
namespace used for something like this. And if the original plan does ever pan 
out, it could be added as a "List" namespace or something.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Legoktm]

Legoktm added a comment.


  I've never really understood why URLs are the preferred mechanism for storing 
these queries. They're nice for a one-off, but make collaboration (what wikis 
excel at) incredibly difficult, because if you want to adjust or update a 
query, you have to create a brand new URL and redistribute it.
  
  Is it just me or is that not even a goal of WDQS? Collaboration isn't even 
mentioned in the user story. Especially if we're talking about documenting 
queries, that seems like something you really want collaboration support for. 
We have a really good mechanism for storing text, distributing text, patrolling 
changes to text, and linking to text (wikis, in case it wasn't clear), so I 
just don't get why people want to do it all in URLs.
  
  Finding some fancy compression algorithm to squeeze even more characters into 
less bytes is a solution technically, but I don't think it really makes the 
service any better.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael added a subscriber: Legoktm.
Michael added a comment.


  But at the end of the day, I think @Legoktm initial suggestion is still the 
most practical one with the best value-for-effort: Just save your long query in 
a Wiki page and share that.
  
  We can probably make the process around that a bit nicer and with less 
friction:
  
  - a better error message when trying to shorten an overly long query, telling 
the user what to do instead
  - maybe a more versatile template that also optionally includes an embed link
  - maybe a help page that nicely explains how to do this
  
  I don't see why that wouldn't resolve most of the issues without us having to 
hack together some tool that will keep being a nightmare to maintain down the 
road.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  In T295560#7504717 , 
@Manuel wrote:
  
  >> The trouble with compression is that we can //never// change it again.
  >
  > I see. Maybe some very simple dictionary approach could work? The syntax is 
highly redundant so that might go a long way. It would also leave the resulting 
string still interpretable. Not the perfect solution anyways.
  
  The syntax isn't that redundant. Eg. if you consider the first example linked 
above:
  
#defaultView:Map
SELECT ?s ?sLabel ?coor ?operator ?operatorLabel ?image ?layer WHERE {  
  
   ?s wdt:P31/wdt:P279* wd:Q28564 ;
  wdt:P17 wd:Q145 ;
  wdt:P625 ?coor ;
  wdt:P137 ?operator ;
  OPTIONAL {?s wdt:P18 ?image .}
  
  VALUES ?operator { wd:Q4923796 wd:Q4966533 wd:Q5016926 wd:Q5038400 
wd:Q5043224 wd:Q5064127 wd:Q5166758 wd:Q5256629 wd:Q16837157
   wd:Q5623821 wd:Q6083890 wd:Q16997658 wd:Q6901162 
wd:Q6984500 wd:Q16998902 wd:Q7161994 wd:Q7236943 wd:Q7321391 
 wd:Q5123523 wd:Q7825688 wd:Q7909538 
wd:Q8038115 }
BIND( 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q4923796, "Blaenau Gwent", 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q4966533, "Bridgend", 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5016926, "Caerphilly",  
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5038400, "Cardiff",   
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5043224, "Carmarthenshire", 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5064127, "Ceredigion",   
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5166758, "Conwy",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5256629, "Denbighshire",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q16837157, "Flintshire", 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5623821, "Gwynedd",   
   IF(?operator = wd:Q6083890, "Isle of Anglesey",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q16997658, "Merthyr Tydfil",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q6901162, "Monmouthshire",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q6984500, "Neath Port Talbot",   
   IF(?operator = wd:Q16998902, "Newport",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q7161994, "Pembrokeshire", 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q7236943, "Powys",   
   IF(?operator = wd:Q7321391, "Rhondda Cynon Taf",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q5123523, "Swansea",
   IF(?operator = wd:Q7825688, "Torfaen",   
   IF(?operator = wd:Q7909538, "Vale of Glamorgan", 
   IF(?operator = wd:Q8038115, "Wrexham",
   "")) AS ?layer).  
  
SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" }
}
ORDER BY ?operatorLabel ?sLabel
  
  We can //not// replace the variables (`?operator`), the ids (`Q7825688`, 
`P31`) and the string literals (`"Blaenau Gwent"`) with a code-side dictionary. 
That leaves only the literal SPARQL keywords (`OPTIONAL`) and some common 
constructs (`SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" 
}`). That's not nothing but it is much less than it might seem.
  Also, it is still more effort than it might seem because we have to be very 
careful in our work as we might not able to fix some mistakes after launch. And 
it is very easy to make mistakes here, e.g. by replacing a keyword with a key 
that also appears in the actual content.
  Writing your own compression algorithm isn't as bad as writing your own 
encryption algorithm, but similar arguments still apply.
  
  So, //if// we were to go the route of compression, then I would recommend 
using a very stable implementation of that LZ algorithm from the '70s, so that 
we can hope that it will still be around for a while. (See also: Lindy effect 
)

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel added a comment.


  > The trouble with compression is that we can //never// change it again.
  
  I see. Maybe some very simple dictionary approach could work? The syntax is 
highly redundant so that might go a long way. It would also leave the resulting 
string still interpretable. Not the perfect solution anyways.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  > What compression algorithm would be best suited for this purpose?
  
  And what have browser-javascript implementations? One possible example would 
be https://github.com/pieroxy/lz-string/
  
  The trouble with compression is that we can //never// change it again. Since 
old queries will have been stored in some compressed format, that compression 
algorithm must be supported forever or they will become unreadable. That isn't 
great...

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael claimed this task.
Michael moved this task from Prioritized Backlog to Doing on the 
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Restricted Application added a project: User-Michael.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  In T295560#7500990 , 
@Mahir256 wrote:
  
  > We have an as-yet unused "Query:" namespace 
 ; 
perhaps it could be opened for storing queries longer than 2000 characters? (A 
redirection mechanism such that a visit to any page in that namespace takes you 
to query.wikidata.org might be useful, and there ought to be a system, similar 
to what is done with CSS pages, that ensures that a query is syntactically 
correct before it can be saved to that namespace.)
  
  Mh, that could be an option. We would maybe move it out of Wikibase itself 
and create a new extension similar to EntitySchema? Effort would probably 
similar to that of creating the EntitySchema extension. Also, IIRC, creating 
the EntitySchema extension had some kind of aftermath with the community 
requesting some more functionality or integration or something? I wasn't 
involved in that anymore, but we should probably try to anticipate such 
requests, if we would want to go that route.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  > What other solutions could you think of?
  
  Building on what was suggested in T220703#7499438 
: Why not do that in the 
browser? 
  A small piece of js code in the query service gui, when provided with a page 
title (and optionally a revision id), it requests the page content via the API 
and if it finds a `{{SPARQL|query=...}}`, then it redirects to that query.
  
  I'm probably missing something, because to me that sounds pretty straight 
forward.

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To: Michael
Cc: Michael, Mahir256, Manuel, Aklapper, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Mahir256]

Mahir256 added a comment.


  We have an as-yet unused "Query:" namespace 
 ; 
perhaps it could be opened for storing queries longer than 2000 characters? (A 
redirection mechanism such that a visit to any page in that namespace takes you 
to query.wikidata.org might be useful, and there ought to be a system, similar 
to what is done with CSS pages, that ensures that a query is syntactically 
correct before it can be saved to that namespace.)

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To: Mahir256
Cc: Mahir256, Manuel, Aklapper, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, 
Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel updated the task description.

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To: Manuel
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GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T295560: Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query Service via short URL [investigation]

[Manuel]

Manuel renamed this task from "Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query 
Service via a short URL " to "Share complex SPARQL queries in Wikidata Query 
Service via short URL [investigation] ".
Manuel edited projects, added Wikidata-Campsite (Team A Hearth ); removed 
Wikidata-Campsite.
Manuel updated the task description.

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To: Manuel
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GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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