[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  Also, a central wiki (such as Commons) can host list with excessive detail 
that is not suitable for Wikipedia. For example, Wikipedia currently does not 
(and will likely never) have article on local elections of each US county/city 
in 2023, let alone their candidates or results (e.g. Wikipedia does not have a 
article for list of all former and current member of city council of Palo Alto, 
California). But those can be hosted in the new project. (Wikidata is not 
suitable to host it, since we need to match each entry to Wikidata item and 
create new ones if they does not exist, which can not be done in short time for 
more than 1 cities in the US. But once it is done, we would have easy way 
to sync data between the list and Wikidata in a proposed Special:Inconsistency 
page.)

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  In T332484#9553472 , @Base 
wrote:
  
  >> Allow the same list be included in different pages
  >
  > You can already do this with templates (or even using another article as 
template via labeled section transclusion)
  
  Yeah, if you view the source code of 
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%A8%E5%9B%BD%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E4%BB%A3%E8%A1%A8%E5%A4%A7%E4%BC%9A%E5%B1%B1%E4%B8%9C%E7%9C%81%E4%BB%A3%E8%A1%A8%E5%9B%A2,
 it use modules to extract information from 14 other articles, and the module 
can parse two complete different format (plain list and wikitable). However the 
drawbacks are:
  
  - new users may easily mess up wikitable
  - this does not provide Wikidata integration unless you warp each row over a 
template that uses Wikidata
- Note: for a stable list, what I propose is not transcluding data 
on-the-fly from Wikidata (since 1. this will make a page access many Wikidata 
entities potentially hitting entityAccessLimit; 2. thisincrease the potential 
of vandalism) instead, stable data are stored locally and can be compared with 
Wikidata via a new special page such as Special:Inconsistency.
  - data is not machine readable, and there are no type safety for data
  
  >> A more user-friendly editing interface
  >
  > Are you sure editing JSON is more user friendly than editing a table? 
(Either wikimarkup based, which can even be edited via GUI, or template based 
which is pretty much the same as JSON complexity wise but uses familiar syntax)
  
  JSON only described the internal storage method - the proper edit interface 
should be similar to Microsoft Excel.
  
  > 
  >
  > To be honest I am not sure how this would be helpful as opposed to having 
such lists generated automatically. I see value in having a list of senators 
that automatically updates basing on WD, this way a smaller Wikipedia would not 
need to update everything manually after a general election. But I see little 
value in having such lists still manually maintained but now adding JSON to 
list of required skills to every single Wikipedian. In my opinion this is 
different from the current Data pages on Commons which deal with more raw data 
such as numbers and that do imply high degree of technical expertise to deal 
with.
  
  
  
  - For now data page is a Commons-only feature and not available in other 
wikis (though it is very trivial to enable it elsewhere).
  - Commons data page does not integrate with Wikidata. In my proposal fields 
can be populated locally, from Wikidata or even derived from other fields.

TASK DETAIL
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Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, KimKelting, LawExplorer, 
Silverfish, Reasno, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jheald, mys_721tx, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Base]

Base added a comment.


  > Allow the same list be included in different pages
  
  You can already do this with templates (or even using another article as 
template via labeled section transclusion)
  
  > A more user-friendly editing interface
  
  Are you sure editing JSON is more user friendly than editing a table? (Either 
wikimarkup based, which can even be edited via GUI, or template based which is 
pretty much the same as JSON complexity wise but uses familiar syntax)
  
  
  
  To be honest I am not sure how this would be helpful as opposed to having 
such lists generated automatically. I see value in having a list of senators 
that automatically updates basing on WD, this way a smaller Wikipedia would not 
need to update everything manually after a general election. But I see little 
value in having such lists still manually maintained but now adding JSON to 
list of required skills to every single Wikipedian. In my opinion this is 
different from the current Data pages on Commons which deal with more raw data 
such as numbers and that do imply high degree of technical expertise to deal 
with.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T332484

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To: Base
Cc: Base, Pppery, Aklapper, Stang, Bugreporter, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, 
Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, KimKelting, LawExplorer, 
Silverfish, Reasno, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jheald, mys_721tx, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, jayvdb, zhuyifei1999, Yurik, Mbch331, Jay8g
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Bugreporter
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karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, KimKelting, LawExplorer, Silverfish, Reasno, 
_jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jheald, mys_721tx, Wikidata-bugs, Base, aude, 
jayvdb, zhuyifei1999, Yurik, Mbch331, Jay8g
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Bugreporter
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karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Silverfish, Reasno, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Jheald, mys_721tx, Wikidata-bugs, Base, aude, jayvdb, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  As demos:
  
  - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:GZWDer/US_President - an automatic page 
list that is mostly based on Wikidata
  - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:GZWDer/20CPP - an automatic page list 
that is using very little data from Wikidata (also an existing list that can 
not easily be matched to Wikidata item)

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  As an much simplified example (note what I propose is much more complex and 
the following only contain parts that need to demonstrate how things will work):
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data:List_of_current_United_States_senators.json
  
{ "data":
  [
{ "@name": "Tommy Tuberville", "Class": "Class 2", "Party": 
"Republican", "Born": "September 18, 1954", "Occupations": ["College football 
coach", "Investment management firm partner"], "Alma mater": "Southern Arkansas 
University", "Elected": "January 3, 2021"},
   ...
  ],
  "fields": [
"Class": ...,
"Party": {
"suggested-values": ["Republican", "Democratic"],
"display-style": {"abbreviation": ...},
...
}, 
...
  ]
  "default-order": "state, class"
}
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_senators:
  
{{#include: Data:List_of_current_United_States_senators.json | 
columns=State, @link/Senator, Party, Born, Occupations, Alma mater, elected, 
class | display=table }}
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Current_U.S._senators:
  
{{#include: Data:List_of_current_United_States_senators.json | 
columns=State, @link/Senator, Party%abbreviation | display=navbox }}

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  In my proposal it will still allow local community to fully control the 
content of list content, although the actual data will be located in a separate 
page like 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data:List_of_2016_United_States_presidential_electors.json

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Pppery]

Pppery added a comment.


  At least on the English Wikipedia, completely rearchitecturing lists like 
that, especially if based on Wikidata, is almost certain to fail to achieve 
consensus.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T332484: JSON-based page list

[Maintenance_bot]

Maintenance_bot added a project: Wikidata.

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