[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  I think there is a misunderstanding here as to what the available options in 
this particular situation are.
  
  In T344609#9207699 , 
@thiemowmde wrote:
  
  > If you want you can think of EntityDocument as a migration path away from 
the previous Entity class 
. 
It was never meant to solve much other than making it easier to get rid of it 
and focus on what an entity type really is.
  
  "Finishing" that migration and moving towards a more modular architecture of 
Wikibase with more high-level reusable traits and centralized services is 
indeed the right goal.
  However, it was decided that this is not the purview of this team, which is 
now working on EntitySchema.
  
  This ADR argues that while making use of the Entity Registration mechanism is 
making the migration slightly harder by requiring somewhat more effort due to 
the additional type of Entity, it is less bad than our current approach, which 
would make that migration significantly harder by increasing its complexity due 
to adding additional //different// low-level coupling.
  
  I've amended that ADR somewhat to hopefully make that point clearer.
  
  On the positive side, I'm hopeful that working on those underlying issues 
will be high on the priority list of the respective team, given all the pain 
that it causes. What remains for us here to decided, is how to move forward in 
a way that causes minimal additional friction to that architecture migration 
effort while still being able to deliver value.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T344609

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To: Michael
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, 
Aklapper, Michael, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, Andrawaag, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[thiemowmde]

thiemowmde added a comment.


  It might be a good idea to expand that ADR then. It appears to be incomplete. 
I miss, for example, an explanation what that mental load is, and how it 
compares to the problems that come with EntityDocument.
  
  If you want you can think of EntityDocument as a migration path away from the 
previous Entity class 
. 
It was never meant to solve much other than making it easier to get rid of it 
and focus on what an entity type really is. What's left in the class boils down 
to "something with a getId method". That's it. But we already have a concept 
for that: use EntityId.
  
  I tried to follow a few code paths that currently use EntityDocument. What I 
find in the end is always something like this 
.
 This is cheating. This code pretends to forget the entity type – just to send 
it somewhere where the code paths separate again. And sure, it needs to. 
Without knowing the type (or trait, e.g. StatementListProvider) no code could 
do anything meaningful with an EntityDocument alone. But what's even the point 
then?
  
  What we currently have is a codebase where everything is written with certain 
entity types or traits in mind, but the code doesn't say that.
  
  Making more classes implement EntityDocument makes this worse.
  
  Not using EntityDocument means we end with more code that clearly says for 
which entity type it is written. Or even better: code that mentions the traits 
it is interested in, e.g. StatementListProvider, as listed above.

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To: Michael, thiemowmde
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, 
Aklapper, Michael, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, Andrawaag, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, 
Scott_WUaS, MisterSynergy, abian, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  @thiemowmde Yes, moving towards more modular traits is the midterm plan, as I 
understand it, but it is not something Wikibase currently sufficiently supports.
  What is proposed here is to take an approach that will make that future 
eventual migration less troublesome by only having to deal with a single, 
explicit, way of extending Wikibase.
  By contrast, the current approach will make us add another, //second//, way 
of extending Wikibase on top of what is already there, in addition to adding 
further mental load by also adding implicit dependencies.

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To: Michael
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, 
Aklapper, Michael, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, Andrawaag, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, 
Scott_WUaS, MisterSynergy, abian, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[thiemowmde]

thiemowmde added a subscriber: Lydia_Pintscher.
thiemowmde added a comment.


  I don't want to fuel this discussion unnecessarily. Unfortunately it feels 
like this comes up every few years. We had the same fights back then in 2014 
when I had my head deep 
 in the 
DataModel.
  
  "Being an entity in the code" – i.e. using the EntityDocument base class – 
was never terribly meaningful. Guess why it's so weirdly named 
. I 
tried to avoid using it whenever possible, even started 
 phasing it out. What matters instead is:
  
  - Can an entity be described the same way items and properties can? → Use 
FingerprintProvider. (It's fine to hate the name – I never liked it myself – 
but this doesn't make it less useful.)
  - Can an entity have labels and descriptions, but not aliases? → Skip 
fingerprint but use LabelsProvider and DescriptionsProvider directly.
  - Can an entity have statements? → Use StatementListProvider for read-only 
access, otherwise StatementListHolder. (I came up with "holder". I'm sorry.)
  - Do you want to address your entities the same way as e.g. properties? → Use 
EntityId.
  
  TL;DR: Entities share traits. This is what should be modeled. Not a hierarchy.
  
  Not that it matters much, but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that an 
EntitySchema would just be an "entity with a shape expression attached to it" 
when it really, really should be the opposite: The only thing that makes an 
EntitySchema and EntitySchema is the shape expression. Please treat it as such.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Michael, thiemowmde
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, 
Aklapper, Michael, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, Andrawaag, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, 
Scott_WUaS, MisterSynergy, abian, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[thiemowmde]

thiemowmde added a comment.


  I don't want to fuel this discussion unnecessarily. Unfortunately it feels 
like this comes up every few years. We had the same fights back then in 2014 
when I had my head deep 
 in the 
DataModel.
  
  TL;DR: "Being an entity in the code" – i.e. using the EntityDocument base 
class – was never terribly meaningful. Guess why it's so weirdly named 
. 
What matters is:
  
  - Can an
  - Can an entity have labels and descriptions, but not aliases? → Use 
`LabelsProvider` and `DescriptionsProvider`.
  - Can an entity have statements? → Use `StatementListProvider` for read-only 
access, otherwise `StatementListHolder`.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T344609

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To: Michael, thiemowmde
Cc: thiemowmde, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, Aklapper, Michael, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, 
Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, 
Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, 
Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, 
MisterSynergy, abian, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Michael]

Michael added a comment.


  In T344609#9124706 , 
@Bugreporter wrote:
  
  > [...] And the decision is the latter is chosen. [...]
  
  That is indeed what is being proposed, but note that the discussion is still 
ongoing and the decision has not yet been made.

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To: Michael
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, Aklapper, Michael, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, 
Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, 
Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, 
Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, 
MisterSynergy, abian, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 951482 had a related patch set uploaded (by Michael Große; author: 
Michael Große):
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/EntitySchema@master] ADR: Decide to make EntitySchema a 
Wikibase Entity after all
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/951482

TASK DETAIL
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To: Michael, gerritbot
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, Aklapper, Michael, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, 
Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, 
Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, 
Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  In T344609#9124129 , 
@gerritbot wrote:
  
  > Change 951482 had a related patch set uploaded (by Michael Große; author: 
Michael Große):
  >
  > [mediawiki/extensions/EntitySchema@master] ADR: Decide to make EntitySchema 
a Wikibase Entity after all
  >
  > https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/951482
  
  If I read it correctly, it may be an idea to remove 
Special:SetEntitySchemaLabelDescriptionAliases and Special:EntitySchemaText in 
favor of the Wikibase equivalent.

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To: Michael, Bugreporter
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, Aklapper, Michael, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, 
Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, 
Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, 
Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a project: Patch-For-Review.

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To: Michael, gerritbot
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, Aklapper, Michael, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, 
Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, 
Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, pdehaye, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, 
Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 951482 had a related patch set uploaded (by Michael Große; author: 
Michael Große):
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/EntitySchema@master] ADR: Decide to make EntitySchema a 
Wikibase Entity after all
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/951482

TASK DETAIL
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To: Michael, gerritbot
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, hoo, Bugreporter, Aklapper, Michael, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, 
ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, pdehaye, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
_jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, MisterSynergy, abian, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Michael]

Michael claimed this task.
Michael moved this task from Parents/Waiting to Doing on the Wikidata Dev Team 
(Sprint-∞) board.
Restricted Application added a project: User-Michael.

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To: Michael
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Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, 
ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, pdehaye, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[WMDE-leszek]

WMDE-leszek added a project: Wikidata Dev Team (Sprint-∞).
WMDE-leszek updated the task description.

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ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, pdehaye, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, Andrawaag, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, YULdigitalpreservation, LawExplorer, Salgo60, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Bugreporter]

Bugreporter added a comment.


  One thing to consider is that the implementation of EntitySchema is 
intentionally very decoupled from Wikibase, and does not use any of its code. 
Therefore it is conceptually wrong to assume a wikibase-entityid 
datavalue-type, which are for things like items, properties and 
lexemes/forms/senses (which //are// actual extensions to Wikibase entity 
datamodel).
  
  Something comparible is T344618: New datatype to link to a Wikifunctions 
ZObject , though ZObject lives in 
another (different) wiki, not part of Wikidata.

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karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, pdehaye, Nandana, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T344609: Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision

[Michael]

Michael renamed this task from "Revisit the EntitySchema Technical Decision" to 
"Revisit the EntitySchema v2 Technical Decision".

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Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, pdehaye, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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