date:20141028

Re: [Wikidata-l] Open Data Awards

2014-10-28 Thread Allan J. Aguilar

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Hash: SHA512

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 23:55:28 +
John Lewis  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> Some exciting news here. The Open Data Awards' finalists lists were
> recently published on their website. Wikidata has been listed as a
> finalist in two different categories which are the Open Data
> Innovation Award and the Open Data Publisher Award. Lydia
>  and Magnus
>  will be representing
> Wikidata at the gala dinner where the winner of each category will be
> announced live. I will be standing in as a backup should Lydia be
> unable to attend the award dinner but let's wish Lydia and Magnus a
> good time and keep our fingers crossed that Wikidata will win at
> least one of the two categories we've been nominated for. As Lydia
> would say - the entire community is awesome for working to help build
> Wikidata to where it is and this is as much as all of our work as it
> is the development team's for helping build and innovate the way free
> knowledge is shared within the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John Lewis
> 
> 

Wonderful news! Best wishes for Lydia and Magnus, and enjoy the
dinner :-)

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

2014-10-28 Thread Pierre-Yves Beaudouin

I don't know because I'm not the developer of the app and my knowledge is
limited in this area. For many years now, I am collecting data
(information, photo, coordinates) about the cemetery. I've publish
everything on Commons, Wikidata and OSM, so developers can do something
smart with that ;)

Pyb
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread Daniel Kinzler

Am 28.10.2014 11:26, schrieb Martynas Jusevičius:
> And why do you think practical cases cannot be implemented using RDF?
> What is the justification for ignoring the whole standard and
> implementation stack? What makes you think Wikidata can do better than
> RDF?

We don't ignore the standard, but, from the start, considered RDF one way to
represent the data we have in Wikidata. The fact that the RDF mapping is
currently only partially implemented is annoying, but perhaps understandable,
since other features (e.g. the query capability you mention) are more urgent.

However, the data model used by Wikibase/Wikidata is different from RDF on a
conceptual level. In fact, it's much closer to ISO Topic Maps, if you want a
standard.

The point is that in RDF, you typically have statements like "X is a Y" or "The
z of X has value n". These are "facts" that can easily be used by an inference
engine, and queried using SPARQL. Wikidata, however, does not contain such
facts. It contains *claims*. Wikidata statements have the form "X is a Y
according to a and b, in the context of C" (e.g. "The population of Berlin is
3.5 Million, according to survey 768234, in 2011"). "Deep" statements like this
*can* be modeled in RDF, but the result is rather inconvenient to work with, and
quite useless for SPARQL queries; just because you *can* model this email as a
single number does not mean it is useful to do so - and even if it is useful for
some use case, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to use that number as the
primary, internal representation of this email.

Even if you ignore the "depth" of the statement, the "top level" claims
(Population of Berlin = 3.5 million) are too vague, too loosely connected and
too prone to errors to be useful for SPARQL based processing. DBpedia's SPARQL
endpoint is pretty useless for all but trivial questions, because the data is
too dirty, even though the dbpedia team does a commendable job at cleaning the
data via a variety of heuristics.

Another issue is scale. Because of the depth of the statements, we would need
hundreds of millions of triples to represent even the data we have today. Expect
this to be billions in a years or two. Few, if any, triple stores scale that 
way.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

2014-10-28 Thread Denny Vrandečić

That's a great idea!

Just curious, for such a specific use case, why did you go for an App
instead of a Website?



On Tue Oct 28 2014 at 7:29:22 AM Sjoerd de Bruin 
wrote:

> Not available in the Dutch iTunes Store...
>
> Op 28 okt. 2014 om 15:26 heeft Pierre-Yves Beaudouin <
> pierre.beaudo...@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> I'm happy to announce the release of Super Lachaise on the App Store. It's
> a free mobile app that help you during the visit of the Père Lachaise
> cemetery. This is probably one of the firsts mobile apps to use Wikidata ;)
>
> http://www.superlachaise.fr/
> https://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/super-lachaise/id918263934
>
>
> Pyb
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

2014-10-28 Thread Sjoerd de Bruin

Not available in the Dutch iTunes Store...

> Op 28 okt. 2014 om 15:26 heeft Pierre-Yves Beaudouin 
>  het volgende geschreven:
> 
> I'm happy to announce the release of Super Lachaise on the App Store. It's a 
> free mobile app that help you during the visit of the Père Lachaise cemetery. 
> This is probably one of the firsts mobile apps to use Wikidata ;)
> 
> http://www.superlachaise.fr/
> https://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/super-lachaise/id918263934
> 
> 
> Pyb
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[Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

2014-10-28 Thread Pierre-Yves Beaudouin

I'm happy to announce the release of Super Lachaise on the App Store. It's
a free mobile app that help you during the visit of the Père Lachaise
cemetery. This is probably one of the firsts mobile apps to use Wikidata ;)

http://www.superlachaise.fr/
https://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/super-lachaise/id918263934


Pyb
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread Gerard Meijssen

Hoi,
I find it funny that you ask EXACTLY the right question but you get the
opposite answer; I do not care for the query language I care for it being
available. As a consequence millions of edits have been made. Consequently
this query tool is practical. I have been told that a layer on top of it
that produces RDF is feasible.

Now RDF may exist and it may be usable for you in your wide world but in
the corner of this world where Wikidata is filled with data this tool is
invaluable and RDF does not exist.

To be honest, yes it is important that we become free linked but not at the
price of having to wait for the official sanctioned product. Not at the
cost of imposed stagnation.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On 28 October 2014 15:18, Martynas Jusevičius  wrote:

> Gerard,
>
> what is there practical about having a query language that 1) is not a
> standard and never will be 2) is not supported by any other tool or
> project and never will be?
>
> I would understand this kind of reasoning coming from a hobbyist
> project, but not from one claiming to be a global "free linked
> database".
>
>
> Martynas
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Gerard Meijssen
>  wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Query has been promised and unofficially we have it for a VERY long
> time..
> > It is called WDQ. it is used in many tools. The official query will only
> > provide a subset of functionality for quite some time as I understand it.
> >
> > Practical cases in RDF for what by whom ? Wikidata is first and foremost
> a
> > vehicle to bring interwiki links to our projects. Then and only then it
> > becomes relevant to store data about the items involved. This data may be
> > used in info boxes and what not in our projects.. THAT is practical use
> to
> > our community.
> >
> > RDF may of interest to others and it may be possible to do practical
> things
> > by them but that does not prioritise it. I do not think Wikidata can do
> > better. As far as I am concerned it is the least of our problems. The
> reuse
> > of data is first to happen within our projects and THAT is not so much
> of a
> > technical problem at all.
> > Thanks,
> >GerardM
> >
> > On 28 October 2014 11:26, Martynas Jusevičius 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Gerard,
> >>
> >> what about query functionality for example? This has been long
> >> promised but shows no real progress.
> >>
> >> And why do you think practical cases cannot be implemented using RDF?
> >> What is the justification for ignoring the whole standard and
> >> implementation stack? What makes you think Wikidata can do better than
> >> RDF?
> >>
> >>
> >> Martynas
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Hoi,
> >> > Hell no. Wikidata is first and foremost a product that is actually
> used.
> >> > It
> >> > has that way from the start. Prioritising RDF over actual practical
> use
> >> > cases is imho wrong. If anything the continuous tinkering on the
> format
> >> > of
> >> > dumps has mostly brought us grieve. Dumps that can no longer be read
> >> > like
> >> > currently for the Wikidata statistics really hurt.
> >> >
> >> > So lets not spend time at this time on RDF, Lets ensure that what we
> >> > have
> >> > works, works well and plan carefully for a better RDF but lets only
> have
> >> > it
> >> > go in production AFTER we know that it works well.
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >   GerardM
> >> >
> >> > On 28 October 2014 02:46, Martynas Jusevičius 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hey all,
> >> >>
> >> >> so I see there is some work being done on mapping Wikidata data model
> >> >> to RDF [1].
> >> >>
> >> >> Just a thought: what if you actually used RDF and Wikidata's concepts
> >> >> modeled in it right from the start? And used standard RDF tools,
> APIs,
> >> >> query language (SPARQL) instead of building the whole thing from
> >> >> scratch?
> >> >>
> >> >> Is it just me or was this decision really a colossal waste of
> >> >> resources?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> [1] http://korrekt.org/papers/Wikidata-RDF-export-2014.pdf
> >> >>
> >> >> Martynas
> >> >> http://graphityhq.com
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
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> >> >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ___
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> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >> >
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread Martynas Jusevičius

Gerard,

what is there practical about having a query language that 1) is not a
standard and never will be 2) is not supported by any other tool or
project and never will be?

I would understand this kind of reasoning coming from a hobbyist
project, but not from one claiming to be a global "free linked
database".


Martynas

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:
> Hoi,
> Query has been promised and unofficially we have it for a VERY long time..
> It is called WDQ. it is used in many tools. The official query will only
> provide a subset of functionality for quite some time as I understand it.
>
> Practical cases in RDF for what by whom ? Wikidata is first and foremost a
> vehicle to bring interwiki links to our projects. Then and only then it
> becomes relevant to store data about the items involved. This data may be
> used in info boxes and what not in our projects.. THAT is practical use to
> our community.
>
> RDF may of interest to others and it may be possible to do practical things
> by them but that does not prioritise it. I do not think Wikidata can do
> better. As far as I am concerned it is the least of our problems. The reuse
> of data is first to happen within our projects and THAT is not so much of a
> technical problem at all.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On 28 October 2014 11:26, Martynas Jusevičius  wrote:
>>
>> Gerard,
>>
>> what about query functionality for example? This has been long
>> promised but shows no real progress.
>>
>> And why do you think practical cases cannot be implemented using RDF?
>> What is the justification for ignoring the whole standard and
>> implementation stack? What makes you think Wikidata can do better than
>> RDF?
>>
>>
>> Martynas
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen
>>  wrote:
>> > Hoi,
>> > Hell no. Wikidata is first and foremost a product that is actually used.
>> > It
>> > has that way from the start. Prioritising RDF over actual practical use
>> > cases is imho wrong. If anything the continuous tinkering on the format
>> > of
>> > dumps has mostly brought us grieve. Dumps that can no longer be read
>> > like
>> > currently for the Wikidata statistics really hurt.
>> >
>> > So lets not spend time at this time on RDF, Lets ensure that what we
>> > have
>> > works, works well and plan carefully for a better RDF but lets only have
>> > it
>> > go in production AFTER we know that it works well.
>> > Thanks,
>> >   GerardM
>> >
>> > On 28 October 2014 02:46, Martynas Jusevičius 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hey all,
>> >>
>> >> so I see there is some work being done on mapping Wikidata data model
>> >> to RDF [1].
>> >>
>> >> Just a thought: what if you actually used RDF and Wikidata's concepts
>> >> modeled in it right from the start? And used standard RDF tools, APIs,
>> >> query language (SPARQL) instead of building the whole thing from
>> >> scratch?
>> >>
>> >> Is it just me or was this decision really a colossal waste of
>> >> resources?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> [1] http://korrekt.org/papers/Wikidata-RDF-export-2014.pdf
>> >>
>> >> Martynas
>> >> http://graphityhq.com
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Wikidata-l mailing list
>> >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>> >
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread Gerard Meijssen

Hoi,
Query has been promised and unofficially we have it for a VERY long time..
It is called WDQ. it is used in many tools. The official query will only
provide a subset of functionality for quite some time as I understand it.

Practical cases in RDF for what by whom ? Wikidata is first and foremost a
vehicle to bring interwiki links to our projects. Then and only then it
becomes relevant to store data about the items involved. This data may be
used in info boxes and what not in our projects.. THAT is practical use to
our community.

RDF may of interest to others and it may be possible to do practical things
by them but that does not prioritise it. I do not think Wikidata can do
better. As far as I am concerned it is the least of our problems. The reuse
of data is first to happen within our projects and THAT is not so much of a
technical problem at all.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On 28 October 2014 11:26, Martynas Jusevičius  wrote:

> Gerard,
>
> what about query functionality for example? This has been long
> promised but shows no real progress.
>
> And why do you think practical cases cannot be implemented using RDF?
> What is the justification for ignoring the whole standard and
> implementation stack? What makes you think Wikidata can do better than
> RDF?
>
>
> Martynas
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen
>  wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Hell no. Wikidata is first and foremost a product that is actually used.
> It
> > has that way from the start. Prioritising RDF over actual practical use
> > cases is imho wrong. If anything the continuous tinkering on the format
> of
> > dumps has mostly brought us grieve. Dumps that can no longer be read like
> > currently for the Wikidata statistics really hurt.
> >
> > So lets not spend time at this time on RDF, Lets ensure that what we have
> > works, works well and plan carefully for a better RDF but lets only have
> it
> > go in production AFTER we know that it works well.
> > Thanks,
> >   GerardM
> >
> > On 28 October 2014 02:46, Martynas Jusevičius 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> so I see there is some work being done on mapping Wikidata data model
> >> to RDF [1].
> >>
> >> Just a thought: what if you actually used RDF and Wikidata's concepts
> >> modeled in it right from the start? And used standard RDF tools, APIs,
> >> query language (SPARQL) instead of building the whole thing from
> >> scratch?
> >>
> >> Is it just me or was this decision really a colossal waste of resources?
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] http://korrekt.org/papers/Wikidata-RDF-export-2014.pdf
> >>
> >> Martynas
> >> http://graphityhq.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikidata-l mailing list
> >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread Martynas Jusevičius

John, please see inline:

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:39 AM, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> The data model is close to RDF, but not quite. Statements in items are
> reified statements, etc. Technically it is semantic data, where RDF is
> one possible representaton.
>

Well it has been shown (in the paper I referenced) that Wikidata can
be modeled as RDF. And there is no reason why it couldn't be, because
in RDF anyone can say anything about anything.

> There was a decision choice to keep Mediawiki to ease reuse within the
> Wikimedia sites, mostly so users could reuse their knowledge, but also
> for devs to reuse existing infrastructure.

This is exactly the decision that I question. I think it was
completely misguided. If the goal was to reuse knowledge and
infrastructure, then Wikidata has failed completely, as there is more
infrastructure and knowledge of RDF than there ever will be for
Mediawiki, or any structured/semantic data model for that matter.

>
> Some of the problems with Wd comes from the fact that the similarities
> isn't clear enough for the users, and possibly the devs, which have
> resulted in a slightly introvert community and a technical structure
> that is slightly more Wikipedia-centric than necessary.

Here I can only agree with you. That is not an RDF problem though.

>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen
>  wrote:
>> Hoi,
>> Hell no. Wikidata is first and foremost a product that is actually used. It
>> has that way from the start. Prioritising RDF over actual practical use
>> cases is imho wrong. If anything the continuous tinkering on the format of
>> dumps has mostly brought us grieve. Dumps that can no longer be read like
>> currently for the Wikidata statistics really hurt.
>>
>> So lets not spend time at this time on RDF, Lets ensure that what we have
>> works, works well and plan carefully for a better RDF but lets only have it
>> go in production AFTER we know that it works well.
>> Thanks,
>>   GerardM
>>
>> On 28 October 2014 02:46, Martynas Jusevičius  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> so I see there is some work being done on mapping Wikidata data model
>>> to RDF [1].
>>>
>>> Just a thought: what if you actually used RDF and Wikidata's concepts
>>> modeled in it right from the start? And used standard RDF tools, APIs,
>>> query language (SPARQL) instead of building the whole thing from
>>> scratch?
>>>
>>> Is it just me or was this decision really a colossal waste of resources?
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] http://korrekt.org/papers/Wikidata-RDF-export-2014.pdf
>>>
>>> Martynas
>>> http://graphityhq.com
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikidata-l mailing list
>>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Open Data Awards

2014-10-28 Thread Luca Martinelli

Break a leg, team!

L.

2014-10-28 7:23 GMT+01:00 Stryn :
> Great,
> Good luck!
>
> Stryn 🐼
> Sent from Windows Phone
> 
> Lähettäjä: John Lewis
> Lähetetty: ‎28.‎10.‎2014 1:55
> Vastaanottaja: wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Aihe: [Wikidata-l] Open Data Awards
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Some exciting news here. The Open Data Awards' finalists lists were recently
> published on their website. Wikidata has been listed as a finalist in two
> different categories which are the Open Data Innovation Award and the Open
> Data Publisher Award. Lydia and Magnus will be representing Wikidata at the
> gala dinner where the winner of each category will be announced live. I will
> be standing in as a backup should Lydia be unable to attend the award dinner
> but let's wish Lydia and Magnus a good time and keep our fingers crossed
> that Wikidata will win at least one of the two categories we've been
> nominated for. As Lydia would say - the entire community is awesome for
> working to help build Wikidata to where it is and this is as much as all of
> our work as it is the development team's for helping build and innovate the
> way free knowledge is shared within the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Lewis
>
>
>
> --
> John Lewis
>
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-- 
Luca "Sannita" Martinelli
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread Martynas Jusevičius

Gerard,

what about query functionality for example? This has been long
promised but shows no real progress.

And why do you think practical cases cannot be implemented using RDF?
What is the justification for ignoring the whole standard and
implementation stack? What makes you think Wikidata can do better than
RDF?


Martynas

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:
> Hoi,
> Hell no. Wikidata is first and foremost a product that is actually used. It
> has that way from the start. Prioritising RDF over actual practical use
> cases is imho wrong. If anything the continuous tinkering on the format of
> dumps has mostly brought us grieve. Dumps that can no longer be read like
> currently for the Wikidata statistics really hurt.
>
> So lets not spend time at this time on RDF, Lets ensure that what we have
> works, works well and plan carefully for a better RDF but lets only have it
> go in production AFTER we know that it works well.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 28 October 2014 02:46, Martynas Jusevičius  wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> so I see there is some work being done on mapping Wikidata data model
>> to RDF [1].
>>
>> Just a thought: what if you actually used RDF and Wikidata's concepts
>> modeled in it right from the start? And used standard RDF tools, APIs,
>> query language (SPARQL) instead of building the whole thing from
>> scratch?
>>
>> Is it just me or was this decision really a colossal waste of resources?
>>
>>
>> [1] http://korrekt.org/papers/Wikidata-RDF-export-2014.pdf
>>
>> Martynas
>> http://graphityhq.com
>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

2014-10-28 Thread John Erling Blad

The data model is close to RDF, but not quite. Statements in items are
reified statements, etc. Technically it is semantic data, where RDF is
one possible representaton.

There was a decision choice to keep Mediawiki to ease reuse within the
Wikimedia sites, mostly so users could reuse their knowledge, but also
for devs to reuse existing infrastructure.

Some of the problems with Wd comes from the fact that the similarities
isn't clear enough for the users, and possibly the devs, which have
resulted in a slightly introvert community and a technical structure
that is slightly more Wikipedia-centric than necessary.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:
> Hoi,
> Hell no. Wikidata is first and foremost a product that is actually used. It
> has that way from the start. Prioritising RDF over actual practical use
> cases is imho wrong. If anything the continuous tinkering on the format of
> dumps has mostly brought us grieve. Dumps that can no longer be read like
> currently for the Wikidata statistics really hurt.
>
> So lets not spend time at this time on RDF, Lets ensure that what we have
> works, works well and plan carefully for a better RDF but lets only have it
> go in production AFTER we know that it works well.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 28 October 2014 02:46, Martynas Jusevičius  wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> so I see there is some work being done on mapping Wikidata data model
>> to RDF [1].
>>
>> Just a thought: what if you actually used RDF and Wikidata's concepts
>> modeled in it right from the start? And used standard RDF tools, APIs,
>> query language (SPARQL) instead of building the whole thing from
>> scratch?
>>
>> Is it just me or was this decision really a colossal waste of resources?
>>
>>
>> [1] http://korrekt.org/papers/Wikidata-RDF-export-2014.pdf
>>
>> Martynas
>> http://graphityhq.com
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Open Data Awards

Re: [Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

Re: [Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

Re: [Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

[Wikidata-l] Super Lachaise, a mobile app based on Wikidata

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

Re: [Wikidata-l] Open Data Awards

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata RDF

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