Re: [WikiEN-l] My most reused piece of free content
Those are great for long policy pages, especially for new users. It's probably one of my favorite templates in terms of usability. They might be a little too useful though, people want to use them everywhere! ;) I don't really like template cruft in the article like that, but the idea is great. I think the first paragraph should be the same thing though. (The topic in a nutshell). Judson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cohesion ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg j...@jakewartenberg.com wrote: I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here. If there's a problem with outing (I don't even know what that means) and trolling they should be dealt with within the community. We already have a list that is moderated. Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean I, personally, am not getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up another one. I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped down by a few people. When that happens I generally think yeah, they have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong. Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right? ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jake Wartenberg j...@jakewartenberg.com wrote: I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here. If there's a problem with outing (I don't even know what that means) and trolling they should be dealt with within the community. We already have a list that is moderated. Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean I, personally, am not getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up another one. I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped down by a few people. When that happens I generally think yeah, they have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong. Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right? Er, are you confusing Jake with someone else? Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: If there's a problem with outing (I don't even know what that means) and trolling they should be dealt with within the community. We already have a list that is moderated. Perhaps this is harsh, but maybe you mean I, personally, am not getting what *I* want from the communities that exist, so I'll set up another one. I occasionally get drunk, or swipe at someone and then get slapped down by a few people. When that happens I generally think yeah, they have a point, I really should be put in my place. I was wrong. Are you just looking to create somewhere where you'll finally be right? I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to Jake for your comments. Nathan ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I think that was absolutely uncalled for - you should apologize to Jake for your comments. I'll happily apologise. But what was wrong in my assessment that starting a new community is the solution to any perceived problems either here or on wiki or other places where we can discuss things? The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]? He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing. Nathan ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]? He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing. Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise. Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on. I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that Foundation type announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on Meta? And then people could leave comments there. I do feel that we should follow the Wiki-way. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]? He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing. Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise. Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on. I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that Foundation type announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on Meta? And then people could leave comments there. There is already a foundation mailing list. That, and others, are listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is that you misunderstood what he was saying, and then harshly criticized what you mistakenly took him to mean. He was asked Can you describe the editorial policy [of wikien.net]? He replied that it would be a relaxed forum for discussion and chitchat, with 'no trolling or outing' as a caveat to the relaxed moderating. Nowhere did he make a claim about on-wiki (or on-list) problems of trolling or outing (outing is making public personal details on someone who edits psuedonymously). The background, which you evidently missed, is that some non-wiki forums used to discuss Wikipedia expressly allow both trolling and outing. Fair enough, I do appear to have missed part of the conversation. I apologise. Though the intent may be chivalrous, I still think that splintering is bad for any community. It's hard to keep up with everything that's going on. I'm quite new to the mailing lists and I really hanker for things to be reined in. For example, I'd prefer that Foundation type announcements were on... well, I was going to say en:wp... but that would be too hidden from people working on other projects, so maybe on Meta? And then people could leave comments there. There is already a foundation mailing list. That, and others, are listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists There is also a 5-year-old poll here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Mailing_lists#Poll:_a_better_place_for_discussions.3F Carcharoth ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] New site for meta-discussion
Jake Wartenberg wrote: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: There have been a few of these. IMHO, the best website to discuss similar issues is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Village_Pump Steve There is something to be said for off wiki discussion. Why do you think these mailing lists get so much traffic? People can start discussions in a less formal setting before they take them to the pump. It should also be a place where members of the community can discuss things that are not Wikipedia related. On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: Could you describe briefly what the editorial policy of this forum will be? Charles I can. I want to promote a relaxed atmosphere without allowing outing or trolling. It should be a place where editors can chatter idly and brainstorm new ideas. I hope that gives you an idea of what I am going for here. Sort of. It is quite important to realise, though, that the community has no definite boundaries. An unofficial forum is typically seen as a place where Wikipedians and their critics meet on something like equal terms. You are obviously aware of some of the issues that arise, or have arisen in the past, with criticism that goes way past anything that could be reckoned constructive. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] My most reused piece of free content
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Ryan Delaney ryan.dela...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Judson Dunn cohes...@sleepyhead.org wrote: Those are great for long policy pages, especially for new users. It's probably one of my favorite templates in terms of usability. They might be a little too useful though, people want to use them everywhere! ;) I don't really like template cruft in the article like that, but the idea is great. I think the first paragraph should be the same thing though. (The topic in a nutshell). Judson Yeah, it is a great idea that's why we have article introductions, right? - causa sui Yep! Our style of having an introductory paragraph that is a summary of the salient points of the whole article (rather than a hook to get people to read the whole thing) is a great editorial choice in my opinion. It also makes our content, with the API, extremely re-usable. For example, the National Library of Australia sucks in our introductory paragraph of articles about Australian newspapers for use in their newspaper digitsation project - for example, look in the top-right hand corner of their landing page for The Argus: http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/title/13 (they also do a similar thing with our articles about individual authors in their book catalogue search. -Liam [[wittylama]] ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
