Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 13 March 2013 18:15, Fred Bauder wrote: > >> >> The problem he apparently trying to solve is that sites like Wikipedia >> and YouTube are "kind of noisy". As problem statements go, it lacks a >> certain specificity... > > I know what he means though. The snarling nonsense we sometimes encounter > on mailing lists or during editing disputes could fairly be characterized > as "noise". The question is whether this project will be any better. For the editor, or for the reader, one does ask. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 13 March 2013 18:15, Fred Bauder wrote: >> >> The problem he apparently trying to solve is that sites like Wikipedia >> and YouTube are "kind of noisy". As problem statements go, it lacks a >> certain specificity... > > I know what he means though. The snarling nonsense we sometimes encounter > on mailing lists or during editing disputes could fairly be characterized > as "noise". The question is whether this project will be any better. I don't think that is what he means. I think he's talking from the perspective of content users, not content generators. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
> > The problem he apparently trying to solve is that sites like Wikipedia > and YouTube are "kind of noisy". As problem statements go, it lacks a > certain specificity... I know what he means though. The snarling nonsense we sometimes encounter on mailing lists or during editing disputes could fairly be characterized as "noise". The question is whether this project will be any better. Fred ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 13 March 2013 17:01, David Gerard wrote: > On 14 February 2013 13:51, David Gerard wrote: > >> A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to >> crowdsource *high-quality* information". >> http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html > > > Splash page up now: > > http://infobitt.com/ "What if we could come together in a huge way and actually produce something of really high quality? Wouldn't that be great?" Yes, it is great... The problem he apparently trying to solve is that sites like Wikipedia and YouTube are "kind of noisy". As problem statements go, it lacks a certain specificity... ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:01 PM, David Gerard wrote: > On 14 February 2013 13:51, David Gerard wrote: > >> A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to >> crowdsource *high-quality* information". >> http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html > > > Splash page up now: > > http://infobitt.com/ Like most descriptions of projects that give no details as to actual implementation, so you fill in the blanks with your own wildest dreams, it sounds awesome. :) ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 14 February 2013 13:51, David Gerard wrote: > A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to > crowdsource *high-quality* information". > http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html Splash page up now: http://infobitt.com/ - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 21 February 2013 19:00, Fred Bauder wrote: > More a failure of nerve; when he did not attract experts in the field he > gave authority to 2nd rate people. Present company excepted, of course. He attracted academics, then he and the constables drove them away. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Citizendium summarises the decline and fall. Some Citizens have claimed it is inaccurate, but failed to respond when asked to detail the inaccuracies; any corrections are of course welcomed. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
More a failure of nerve; when he did not attract experts in the field he gave authority to 2nd rate people. Present company excepted, of course. Fred > The plan for Citizendium worked? First time that's ever been asserted. > It worked in the sense a plan was developed, but the plan was indeed > a "behemoth" and a "straight-jacket", and was a key reason why the > project was so unsuccessful. Among the many things the plan failed to > consider, which would have been fore-front in any plan evolved by a > community, was the need to make sure the people named as the editors > actually were authorities in their subject. I was there from the > start of the project: I was one of the first "expert" editors, I was > one of the members of the first editorial board, The basic idea was > wonderful as a supplement to WP, but its failure has made it almost > impossible to try properly for a version of WP with expert peer-review > of the content. > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:14 AM, David Gerard wrote: >> On 21 February 2013 11:34, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen >> wrote: >> >>> Sounds like he want's to build a megaproject in a huge go, no >>> evolutionary >>> steps at all, and then see if anyone likes the behemoth of a >>> constructed >>> reality straight-jacket. >> >> >> Well, it worked for Citizendium. (Completely planned out about a year >> in advance, from the Slashdot editorial.) >> >> >> - d. >> >> ___ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > -- > David Goodman > > DGG at the enWP > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 21 February 2013 18:08, David Goodman wrote: > The plan for Citizendium worked? First time that's ever been asserted. I think David may have been being sarcastic... ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
The plan for Citizendium worked? First time that's ever been asserted. It worked in the sense a plan was developed, but the plan was indeed a "behemoth" and a "straight-jacket", and was a key reason why the project was so unsuccessful. Among the many things the plan failed to consider, which would have been fore-front in any plan evolved by a community, was the need to make sure the people named as the editors actually were authorities in their subject. I was there from the start of the project: I was one of the first "expert" editors, I was one of the members of the first editorial board, The basic idea was wonderful as a supplement to WP, but its failure has made it almost impossible to try properly for a version of WP with expert peer-review of the content. On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:14 AM, David Gerard wrote: > On 21 February 2013 11:34, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: > >> Sounds like he want's to build a megaproject in a huge go, no evolutionary >> steps at all, and then see if anyone likes the behemoth of a constructed >> reality straight-jacket. > > > Well, it worked for Citizendium. (Completely planned out about a year > in advance, from the Slashdot editorial.) > > > - d. > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- David Goodman DGG at the enWP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 21 February 2013 11:34, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: > Sounds like he want's to build a megaproject in a huge go, no evolutionary > steps at all, and then see if anyone likes the behemoth of a constructed > reality straight-jacket. Well, it worked for Citizendium. (Completely planned out about a year in advance, from the Slashdot editorial.) - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 5:39 PM, David Gerard wrote: > On 14 February 2013 15:15, Nathan wrote: > >> That job ad is so awesome I had to save it for posterity. Work as a >> programmer slash executive assistant, for free! Be available 24 hours a day >> at a moments notice! Weekends off? Forget it! Mediocre candidates need not >> apply! Work for the *gasp* co-founder of Wikipedia! Solid, solid gold. > > > I think you're being unduly harsh here. His track record speaks for itself. > > > - d. > Sounds like he want's to build a megaproject in a huge go, no evolutionary steps at all, and then see if anyone likes the behemoth of a constructed reality straight-jacket. -- -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]] ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 14 February 2013 15:49, Fred Bauder wrote: > He's not wrong; if it is possible to effectively mobilize the world's > best experts in a major widely supported crowd sourcing project it could > be awesome. Any Wikipedia editor knows from experience that from time to > time you end up arguing with idiots and losing the argument by consensus. The trouble is that Larry will be running it. The arc of Citizendium, from launch sideways into the ground, was marked by Larry recruiting lots of high-powered academics then driving them away within a few months. (At which point the pseudoscientists and cranks moved in, and a bit after that the featured article was a puff piece on homeopathy.) He is demonstrably really, really terrible at community management. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
It's interesting: his official website links to a Facebook fan page for Sanger... automatically generated, containing his Wikipedia profile. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Larry-Sanger/107978809222387 Nick ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 14 February 2013 15:15, Nathan wrote: > That job ad is so awesome I had to save it for posterity. Work as a > programmer slash executive assistant, for free! Be available 24 hours a day > at a moments notice! Weekends off? Forget it! Mediocre candidates need not > apply! Work for the *gasp* co-founder of Wikipedia! Solid, solid gold. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/File:Capture_0e1fc921fd43d5424ccfe36c4554a06308c1cde3.png (RW has a Capturebot for this sort of thing.) - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
"I am rarely as enthusiastic about my ideas as I am about this one--it's a corker." I've never known him not be extremely enthusiatic about his ideas... "If you need to see the project before agreeing to work, and I like you, it's no problem for me to share access to the site if you sign the NDA/non-compete." Is that standard? Signing a non-compete before finding out what the project is sounds risky - you have no idea what you're agreeing not to compete with... On 14 February 2013 13:51, David Gerard wrote: > A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to > crowdsource *high-quality* information". > > http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html > > > - d. > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
> On 14 February 2013 15:15, Nathan wrote: > >> That job ad is so awesome I had to save it for posterity. Work as a >> programmer slash executive assistant, for free! Be available 24 hours a >> day >> at a moments notice! Weekends off? Forget it! Mediocre candidates need >> not >> apply! Work for the *gasp* co-founder of Wikipedia! Solid, solid gold. > > > I think you're being unduly harsh here. His track record speaks for > itself. > > > - d. He's not wrong; if it is possible to effectively mobilize the world's best experts in a major widely supported crowd sourcing project it could be awesome. Any Wikipedia editor knows from experience that from time to time you end up arguing with idiots and losing the argument by consensus. Fred ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 14 February 2013 15:15, Nathan wrote: > That job ad is so awesome I had to save it for posterity. Work as a > programmer slash executive assistant, for free! Be available 24 hours a day > at a moments notice! Weekends off? Forget it! Mediocre candidates need not > apply! Work for the *gasp* co-founder of Wikipedia! Solid, solid gold. I think you're being unduly harsh here. His track record speaks for itself. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
That job ad is so awesome I had to save it for posterity. Work as a programmer slash executive assistant, for free! Be available 24 hours a day at a moments notice! Weekends off? Forget it! Mediocre candidates need not apply! Work for the *gasp* co-founder of Wikipedia! Solid, solid gold. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
On 14 February 2013 14:20, Magnus Manske wrote: > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard wrote: >> A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to >> crowdsource *high-quality* information". >> http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html > "co-founder of Wikipedia and many others". Indeed. Yes, his track record of success is singular. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
"co-founder of Wikipedia and many others". Indeed. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:51 PM, David Gerard wrote: > A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to > crowdsource *high-quality* information". > > http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html > > > - d. > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project
A commercial enterprise "a bit like a wiki or a blog" that's "a way to crowdsource *high-quality* information". http://columbus.craigslist.org/eng/3614099241.html - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
