Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
There is no such creature as a vanished user. There never has been. It is a fallacy that was created based on some internet meme from ancient times and was designed for websites where attribution was not a condition of licensing. All edits are attributed. If one digs deeply enough, and has the right access levels, one can always find the original account name. We should never have pretended that this was a realistic option; what is done is done, but we should stop pretending now that it's 2015 and we've pretty much never actually "vanished" anyone. It's not even an option in the majority of Wikimedia projects. We need to stop pretending that users can "vanish". They can't. they can be renamed. Their accounts can be blocked. But there is no such thing as a vanished user on Wikimedia projects, where the licensing conditions have always been that all edits are attributed to either a username (which can be changed to "vanished user 111") or an IP address. Nobody vanishes from Wikimedia projects; the records are akashic. It's right there in the licensing conditions, and always has been. Risker/Anne On 18 August 2015 at 05:04, WereSpielChequers wrote: > Thanks Nathan, > > Whether other projects follow what we do on EN wiki is up to them. > Licensing choices vary by project, EN wiki allows Fair use which neither > DE wiki nor Commons allows. > > Re Risker's point, there is no difference in the current copyright between > vanished users and others, but logically there should be. By attribution > means you want to be attributed, vanishing means you don't. It seems > logical to me that the process of vanishing at least include the option of > waiving attribution. > > > > On 17 August 2015 at 16:34, Nathan wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes > > wrote: > > > > > This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation > > > for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be > > > messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly > > > confusing and contradictory environment. > > > > > > > > No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens. > > ___ > > WikiEN-l mailing list > > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
Thanks Nathan, Whether other projects follow what we do on EN wiki is up to them. Licensing choices vary by project, EN wiki allows Fair use which neither DE wiki nor Commons allows. Re Risker's point, there is no difference in the current copyright between vanished users and others, but logically there should be. By attribution means you want to be attributed, vanishing means you don't. It seems logical to me that the process of vanishing at least include the option of waiving attribution. On 17 August 2015 at 16:34, Nathan wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes > wrote: > > > This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation > > for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be > > messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly > > confusing and contradictory environment. > > > > > No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens. > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
There is no difference in attribution to a vanished user than there is to any other user who has an account. I don't understand why anyone would think otherwise. Risker On 17 August 2015 at 16:20, Andrew Gray wrote: > On 17 August 2015 at 16:04, WereSpielChequers > wrote: > > Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't > this a > > bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if > > IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as > part > > of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA? > > The CC-SA license doesn't exist ;-) Presumably you meant CC-0. I'd > agree with Oliver that changing this would probably be more complexity > than it's worth. > > The vanishing users thing is also a bit concerning. I agree that > attributing something to "anon-655345" is a bit silly, but equally I > don't think we can practically insist that a vanishing user is > required to relinquish their copyrights before we let them vanish. > > A. > > -- > - Andrew Gray > andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk > > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
On 17 August 2015 at 16:04, WereSpielChequers wrote: > Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't this a > bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if > IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as part > of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA? The CC-SA license doesn't exist ;-) Presumably you meant CC-0. I'd agree with Oliver that changing this would probably be more complexity than it's worth. The vanishing users thing is also a bit concerning. I agree that attributing something to "anon-655345" is a bit silly, but equally I don't think we can practically insist that a vanishing user is required to relinquish their copyrights before we let them vanish. A. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
Some editors already declare on the userpage that their contributions are licensed under something more permissive than the default (such as CC0, PD, etc ), so maybe such a template could be added to userpages or talks of vanished editors. As for changing the default licensing of IP edits Well, a bold suggestion, and good luck with that! Definitely not something a local project can implement though. Perhaps if meta/global consensus is strong enough to petition WMF Legal your idea might get somewhere. I personally cab definitely see the merits of it. ~Benoit / Salvidrim [Sent from my Nexus 5] On Aug 17, 2015 11:34 AM, Nathan wrote: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes wrote: > This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation > for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be > messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly > confusing and contradictory environment. > > No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Oliver Keyes wrote: > This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation > for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be > messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly > confusing and contradictory environment. > > No danger in a discussion, wherever it happens. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't this a bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as part of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA? In one case the only attribution we can make is to an IP address, in the other the editor doesn't want to be attributed. Changing the default license would then give a more transparent reason for registering an address. If you would like your edits to be attributed directly to yourself or indirectly via a nom de plume, then create an account and your logged in edits will be licensed *CC BY-SA 3.0.* Regards WSC ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Licensing IP edits and vanished users under CC0
This is not a conversation for the -en list, this is a conversation for the lawyers and/or wikimedia-l. Individual projects should not be messing with licensing, wherever possible; it creates a highly confusing and contradictory environment. On 17 August 2015 at 11:04, WereSpielChequers wrote: > Currently our default license for EN wiki is CC BY-SA 3.0, but isn't this a > bit odd for IP editors and vanished users? Wouldn't it make more sense if > IP editors were licensing their edits as CC SA, and vanishing users as part > of vanishing were relicensing their edits as CC-SA? > > In one case the only attribution we can make is to an IP address, in the > other the editor doesn't want to be attributed. > > Changing the default license would then give a more transparent reason for > registering an address. If you would like your edits to be attributed > directly to yourself or indirectly via a nom de plume, then create an > account and your logged in edits will be licensed *CC BY-SA 3.0.* > > Regards > > WSC > ___ > WikiEN-l mailing list > WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l -- Oliver Keyes Count Logula Wikimedia Foundation ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
