Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Joseph Fox]

Thanks for your clarifications, James, they're quite helpful.

Joe

On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 at 19:51 James Forrester  wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 at 11:25 Joseph Fox  wrote:
>
>> On 4 October 2015 at 19:10, James Forrester 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
>>> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>>>
>>
>> ​I don't mean to slight yourself, James, or the committee, but this seems
>> an unnecessary delay. Why is this only now being communicated?​
>>
>
> A fair question. We spent too long discussing options rather than
> presenting this earlier. I'm sorry. I have discussed this change with a
> variety of people since at least 2007, and others were talking about it
> before me, but as the complexity of Wikimania rises each year it has become
> more chronic. As Chair of the Committee, the delay is my fault, and I
> apologise.
>
>
>
>> Would it not have been wise to reveal this as it was agreed upon rather
>> than now, after at least two bidding parties have put time and effort into
>> their bids for 2017?
>>
>
> I might equally ask why people not associated with running Wikimania
> decided the create and keep updating mistaken pages on meta about Wikimania
> 2017 being open for bids without even a post to this list, let alone the
> Committee, where we could have pointed out it was false before people spent
> time ill-advisedly. :-(
>
>
> The large majority of our community members are based in either North
>>> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
>>> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
>>> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
>>> community members wherever they are based.
>>>
>>
>> ​This is true and cannot be ignored. But why, then, is "Europe" such a
>> narrow definition? Why no provision for Eastern Europe and Russia? This
>> seems quite disappointing given we have active affiliates in these areas.
>>
>
> The groupings are based on where the majority of Wikimedians are. They can
> of course change over time. I was hoping to work with fellow Wikimedians to
> narrow down these definitions so that it's clear for instance which group
> each interested community group falls.
>
> I'd note that we've already had one Wikimania in the "Eastern Europe,
> Russia, and Central Asia" area, which is one more than, for instance, South
> Asia where we also have a large number of Wikimedians.
>
>
>> ​We should probably cut to the chase and just name the location, since by
>> now it's common knowledge.
>>
>
> Despite people breaching trust and leaking "news" rather than seeking
> clarification, the announcement for 2017 is not final and is still subject
> to approval.
>
>
>
>> Other than my previous comment about the lack of inclusion of Eastern
>> Europe—are we seriously suggesting holding one in Russia and then one in
>> (for instance) Warsaw? That seems to defeat the point of this exercise
>> somewhat.
>>
>
> No. "Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia" would cover both of those
> locations, so at the smallest they would be three years apart, and in
> practice probably a great deal more.
>
> Yours,
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] (no subject)

[Ralf Roletschek]

Why it's no divided by continent?
- North-America (3) Cambridge, USA 2006, Washington, USA 2012, Mexico 2015
- South-America (1) Buenos Aires, Argentinia 2009
- Europe (4) Frankfurt, Germany 2005, Gdansk, Poland 2010, London, UK 2014,
Esino Lario, Italia 2016
- Africa (1), Alexandria, Egypt
- Asia (3) Taipeh 2007, Haifa, Israel 2011, Hong Kong 2013
- Oceania (0)
There was a Wikimania four times in America and Europe, tree times in Asia
- also we need Africa and particularry Oceania.

2015-10-04 22:03 GMT+02:00 James Forrester :

> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 at 12:45 Lodewijk  wrote:
>
>> Michal's comments reflect part of what I'm thinking - and I think the
>> exact splits of the regions may require some further discussions. Given the
>> notes I've seen elsewhere, I trust that this is a first draft of the exact
>> outlines of the regions, and not necessarily definitive?
>>
>
> As has already been stated in this thread, yes.
>
>
>> For example, I was also surprised to see your definition of 'North
>> America' being US + Canada, and not to include Mexico.
>>
>
> False.
>
> We explicitly a repeatedly used the term "Canada and United States"
> because "North America" includes Mexico, and we didn't think that was
> appropriate.
>
> This is a discussion we seem to skip each year as a community - what do we
>> expect exactly of Wikimania, what do we want to accomplish with it? What
>> are its goals?
>>
>
> If you re-read our call for input, you might see that this is precisely
> the question asked:
>
> We’ll also be asking in future for your thoughts about how to structure
>> the programme of each Wikimania to make it as good as it can be for you,
>> for others, and for our community overall.
>>
>
> Ensuring that as many Wikimedians can come to Wikimania each year is of
> little value if they event isn't as useful as it can be.
>
> J.
>
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>
>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Ralf Roletschek]

Yes, thats right. +1

2015-10-04 22:55 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) :

> What I like about the explicit rotation:
> * more transparency, the rotation is no longer an unwritten rule;
> * more time (2 years) to make Wikimania great, less volunteer time spent
> on (concurring) bids;
> * more concreteness and (hopefully) cooperation in the selection stage,
> less "let's beat continent X";
> * more pragmatism, recognising we can't always flight the biggest groups
> of people in the farthest places.
>
> Nemo
>
>
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[Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[James Forrester]

All,

TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement department
will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for future
Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the next
few months

--

At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter the
way that Wikimania locations are decided.

The existing bidding process has developed over time. It has become
unwieldy and hard work for the community and staff. It demands that people
pour a huge amount of effort into building local teams, contracts and
institutional relationships only for rejected bids' work to be left unused.
A lot of pressure is put on volunteers to try to work on logistics rather
than dream about what would make a great programme for our communities.
Each year, the jury has to decide on a venue based on what is presented by
each group divisively, rather than what we as a community could come
together and build.

The process is too short-term, setting out venue much less than two years
ahead (often only just more than twelve months in advance). This greatly
increases expenses when other similar conferences plan locations out many
years ahead. This makes it impossible for us to be strategic about
location, prevents us from arranging co-location with like-minded
conferences, and it means that some areas of the world are ignored when
they could provide great Wikimanias.

Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
parentheses

* Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)

* Canada and United States (2006, 2012)

* Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)

* Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)

* Latin America (2009, 2015)

* Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)

* South Asia (none yet)

* Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)

* Oceania (none yet)

The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.

The large majority of our community members are based in either North
America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
community members wherever they are based.

Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
will take place neither in Europe nor North America.

We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
"Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
out several years into the future. Beyond the first two areas, we may not
visit some as often as others. (I have not listed Antarctica as an area to
which we will rotate, which may well be a disappointment to members of the
British Antarctic Survey and others in that location.)

More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as open,
engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania
conference. I know that several chapters run country-specific conferences
each year, which is a good move. I think that there should be at least one
annual Wikimedia conference in each of these areas. This would help newer
editors know that there are people like them nearby without requiring the
existence of, or putting too great a demand on, every national chapter or
other local affiliated body. In some areas like Africa where the distances
are great, multiple regional conferences may make sense.

As part of the new system of location selection, we will no longer have a
'bidding' process. Instead, the Committee invites people interested in
leading or helping to run a Wikimania to contact us on-wiki
, or via the wikimania-l
list. If you think that you know a great team, venue or concept for holding
Wikimania, in your area or anywhere else, please discuss the possibilities
with us. We will work with interested community members to narrow down the
selection to a particular venue.

Our next few locations will thus go like this:

* 2016: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – Esino Lario in Italy

* 2017: Canada and United States – TBD

* 2018: TBD – TBD

* 2019: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – TBD

* 2020: Canada and United States – TBD

* 2021: TBD – TBD

As you can see, as well as picking the 2017 venue in Canada or the United
States, for which we have a candidate lined up, we need to select very
quickly the area for 2018, and after that, 2019 and beyond. There are
several areas we’ve outlined above that have never had a Wikimania, and
others where we have not visited for some time. We would love your 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[James Forrester]

On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 at 11:25 Joseph Fox  wrote:

> On 4 October 2015 at 19:10, James Forrester  wrote:
>
>> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
>> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>>
>
> ​I don't mean to slight yourself, James, or the committee, but this seems
> an unnecessary delay. Why is this only now being communicated?​
>

A fair question. We spent too long discussing options rather than
presenting this earlier. I'm sorry. I have discussed this change with a
variety of people since at least 2007, and others were talking about it
before me, but as the complexity of Wikimania rises each year it has become
more chronic. As Chair of the Committee, the delay is my fault, and I
apologise.



> Would it not have been wise to reveal this as it was agreed upon rather
> than now, after at least two bidding parties have put time and effort into
> their bids for 2017?
>

I might equally ask why people not associated with running Wikimania
decided the create and keep updating mistaken pages on meta about Wikimania
2017 being open for bids without even a post to this list, let alone the
Committee, where we could have pointed out it was false before people spent
time ill-advisedly. :-(


The large majority of our community members are based in either North
>> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
>> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
>> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
>> community members wherever they are based.
>>
>
> ​This is true and cannot be ignored. But why, then, is "Europe" such a
> narrow definition? Why no provision for Eastern Europe and Russia? This
> seems quite disappointing given we have active affiliates in these areas.
>

The groupings are based on where the majority of Wikimedians are. They can
of course change over time. I was hoping to work with fellow Wikimedians to
narrow down these definitions so that it's clear for instance which group
each interested community group falls.

I'd note that we've already had one Wikimania in the "Eastern Europe,
Russia, and Central Asia" area, which is one more than, for instance, South
Asia where we also have a large number of Wikimedians.


> ​We should probably cut to the chase and just name the location, since by
> now it's common knowledge.
>

Despite people breaching trust and leaking "news" rather than seeking
clarification, the announcement for 2017 is not final and is still subject
to approval.



> Other than my previous comment about the lack of inclusion of Eastern
> Europe—are we seriously suggesting holding one in Russia and then one in
> (for instance) Warsaw? That seems to defeat the point of this exercise
> somewhat.
>

No. "Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia" would cover both of those
locations, so at the smallest they would be three years apart, and in
practice probably a great deal more.

Yours,
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Michał Buczyński]

Hello James,
having read your announcement, I don't really see what you would like to 
consult with the community and when, as the decisions seem to be made by you 
and "we need to select very quickly the area for 2018, and after that, 2019 and 
beyond."
I am also surprised that e.g. Gdańsk is in "Eastern Europe". And you put it in 
one venue bucket with Uzbekistan for some reason.
Or that you "want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania will take place 
neither in Europe nor North America."  Combining these two would mean we could 
wait for a Wikimania in Ukraine, Poland, Mexico (Northern America) or some 
other "Eastern European" country (whatever it means here) forever.
For the future, I would like to ask you and your committee for a more careful 
wording and a careful definition of geographic terms you want to use.
I see this is a rushed anouncement but knowing that these decisions were done 
80+ days ago makes it difficult to accept.
Kind Regards,
Michał Buczyński
WMPL, WMF FDC member
Dnia 4 października 2015 20:10 James Forrester napisał(a):
 All, TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement 
department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for 
future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the 
next few months -- At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we 
agreed to alter the way that Wikimania locations are decided. Consequently, 
from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania four to five years in 
advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The years in which we have 
already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in parentheses * Western, 
Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)* Canada and United States (2006, 
2012)* Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)* Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)* 
Latin America (2009, 2015)* Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)* 
South Asia (none yet)* Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)* Oceania (none yet) The 
Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make sure we 
allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible. The large 
majority of our community members are based in either North America or Europe; 
organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority of our community 
members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on scholarships can go further, 
and be more focussed in supporting our community members wherever they are 
based. Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants 
from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the 
movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania will 
take place neither in Europe nor North America. We  propose that a sequence of 
"Western, Northern, and Southern Europe", "Canada and United States", and one 
of the others every three years, picked out several years into the future. 
Beyond the first two areas, we may not visit some as often as others. (I have 
not listed Antarctica as an area to which we will rotate, which may well be a 
disappointment to members of the British Antarctic Survey and others in that 
location.) More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as 
open, engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania 
conference. I know that several chapters run country-specific conferences each 
year, which is a good move. I think that there should be at least one annual 
Wikimedia conference in each of these areas. This would help newer editors know 
that there are people like them nearby without requiring the existence of, or 
putting too great a demand on, every national chapter or other local affiliated 
body. In some areas like Africa where the distances are great, multiple 
regional conferences may make sense. As part of the new system of location 
selection, we will no longer have a 'bidding' process. Instead, the Committee 
invites people interested in leading or helping to run a Wikimania to contact 
us on-wiki, or via the wikimania-l list. If you think that you know a great 
team, venue or concept for holding Wikimania, in your area or anywhere else, 
please discuss the possibilities with us. We will work with interested 
community members to narrow down the selection to a particular venue. Our next 
few locations will thus go like this: * 2016: Western, Northern, and Southern 
Europe – Esino Lario in Italy* 2017: Canada and United States – TBD* 2018: TBD 
– TBD* 2019: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – TBD* 2020: Canada and 
United States – TBD* 2021: TBD – TBD As you can see, as well as picking the 
2017 venue in Canada or the United States, for which we have a candidate lined 
up, we need to select very quickly the area for 2018, and after that, 2019 and 
beyond. There are several areas we’ve outlined above that have never had a 
Wikimania, and others where we have not visited for some time. We would love 
your thoughts on the areas on which we 

[Wikimania-l] Why Wikimania?

[Lodewijk]

(giving a name to this thread, because I can ;) )

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 10:03 PM, James Forrester 
wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 at 12:45 Lodewijk  wrote:
>
>> Michal's comments reflect part of what I'm thinking - and I think the
>> exact splits of the regions may require some further discussions. Given the
>> notes I've seen elsewhere, I trust that this is a first draft of the exact
>> outlines of the regions, and not necessarily definitive?
>>
>
> As has already been stated in this thread, yes.
>
>
>> For example, I was also surprised to see your definition of 'North
>> America' being US + Canada, and not to include Mexico.
>>
>
> False.
>
> We explicitly a repeatedly used the term "Canada and United States"
> because "North America" includes Mexico, and we didn't think that was
> appropriate.
>

Then I must have seen that name being used elsewhere in this context.
Still, I'm not sure if it shouldn't be included - but as said, that is a
second tier discussion imho.


>
> This is a discussion we seem to skip each year as a community - what do we
>> expect exactly of Wikimania, what do we want to accomplish with it? What
>> are its goals?
>>
>
> If you re-read our call for input, you might see that this is precisely
> the question asked:
>
> We’ll also be asking in future for your thoughts about how to structure
>> the programme of each Wikimania to make it as good as it can be for you,
>> for others, and for our community overall.
>>
>
> Ensuring that as many Wikimedians can come to Wikimania each year is of
> little value if they event isn't as useful as it can be.
>

It was a bit snowed under in practical and regional discussions, I'm
afraid. My point is that somehow, we always say we should have that
discussion, but we never do. It is not that I 'blame' the committee for
this, but I remark that we really should have that discussion. I'm glad I
find you in agreement there.

But, I also think I would go a few steps further. I wouldn't only ask 'how
to structure the programme' but really go a few levels deeper. Why do we
want a Wikimania? What is its general purpose? What do we want to
accomplish. Not quite the question you quote - although I know from
experience that you do ask that question yourself.

I would have liked to see that discussion before deciding that we need more
than two years of preperation, before we even decide there should be a
rotational schedule (although I doubt that the outcome would be that we
should have it in the same city each year).

It has proven time and again that having such fundamental discussions is
difficult in our community, especially going beyond the usual suspects.
Maybe the outcomes of the Wikimania surveys (were those published yet?)
could be a good starting point.

Lodewijk


>
> J.
>
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>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[aude]

On Oct 4, 2015 8:10 PM, "James Forrester"  wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
> TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement
department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for
future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the
next few months
>
>
> --
>
>
> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>
>
> The existing bidding process has developed over time. It has become
unwieldy and hard work for the community and staff. It demands that people
pour a huge amount of effort into building local teams, contracts and
institutional relationships only for rejected bids' work to be left unused.
A lot of pressure is put on volunteers to try to work on logistics rather
than dream about what would make a great programme for our communities.
Each year, the jury has to decide on a venue based on what is presented by
each group divisively, rather than what we as a community could come
together and build.
>
>
> The process is too short-term, setting out venue much less than two years
ahead (often only just more than twelve months in advance). This greatly
increases expenses when other similar conferences plan locations out many
years ahead. This makes it impossible for us to be strategic about
location, prevents us from arranging co-location with like-minded
conferences, and it means that some areas of the world are ignored when
they could provide great Wikimanias.
>
>
> Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
parentheses
>
>
> * Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)
>
> * Canada and United States (2006, 2012)
>
> * Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)
>
> * Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)
>
> * Latin America (2009, 2015)
>
> * Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)
>
> * South Asia (none yet)
>
> * Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)
>
> * Oceania (none yet)
>
>
> The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.
>
>
> The large majority of our community members are based in either North
America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
community members wherever they are based.
>
>
> Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
will take place neither in Europe nor North America.
>
>
> We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
"Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
out several years into the future.

I am not convinced this is a good idea, given this definition of regions.

Eastern Europe should definitely be considered along with western,
southern, ...  It is pretty cheap to travel there from elsewhere in europe,
probably venue + accommodations are cheaper, and most important we have
significant communities there with track record of organising regional
conferences.
I would also be tempted to include north Africa and middle east with
europe. (after all, the next European hackathon is being held in Israel)

I also think having wikimania in Canada + US every three years is too
often. The visa process for the US is hugely annoying, difficult and
results in excluding attendees.

Also, while great and important to have wmf support for wikimania, imho it
is important that ultimate leadership for wikimania each year is from
volunteers. I am not sure the volunteer community in the US + Canada has
this capacity to be lead organizer every three years. Maybe once every four
years is reasonable, imho.

Also, stuff like accommodations tends to be a bit expensive in the US
compared to elsewhere, and flights within north America (especially Canada)
are also somewhat pricey in my experience.

Cheers,
Katie

Beyond the first two areas, we may not visit some as often as others. (I
have not listed Antarctica as an area to which we will rotate, which may
well be a disappointment to members of the British Antarctic Survey and
others in that location.)
>
>
> More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as open,
engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania
conference. I know that several chapters run country-specific conferences
each year, which is a good move. I think that there should be at least one
annual Wikimedia conference in each of these areas. This would help newer
editors know that there are people like them nearby without requiring the
existence of, 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Joseph Fox]

Hi,

[for full disclosure, I work with the WMF's communications department, but
this response is in my personal capacity.]

On 4 October 2015 at 19:10, James Forrester  wrote:
>
> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>

​I don't mean to slight yourself, James, or the committee, but this seems
an unnecessary delay. Why is this only now being communicated?​ Would it
not have been wise to reveal this as it was agreed upon rather than now,
after at least two bidding parties have put time and effort into their bids
for 2017?

I agree with the process as described and put forward, but really, a lot of
tears could have been avoided by announcing this sooner.

The large majority of our community members are based in either North
> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
> community members wherever they are based.
>

​This is true and cannot be ignored. But why, then, is "Europe" such a
narrow definition? Why no provision for Eastern Europe and Russia? This
seems quite disappointing given we have active affiliates in these areas.

Our next few locations will thus go like this:
>
> * 2016: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – Esino Lario in Italy
>
> * 2017: Canada and United States – TBD
>
> * 2018: TBD – TBD
>
> * 2019: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – TBD
>
> * 2020: Canada and United States – TBD
>
> * 2021: TBD – TBD
>

> As you can see, as well as picking the 2017 venue in Canada or the United
> States, for which we have a candidate lined up, we need to select very
> quickly the area for 2018, and after that, 2019 and beyond. There are
> several areas we’ve outlined above that have never had a Wikimania, and
> others where we have not visited for some time. We would love your thoughts
> on the areas on which we should focus for 2018 and beyond. We’ll also be
> asking in future for your thoughts about how to structure the programme of
> each Wikimania to make it as good as it can be for you, for others, and for
> our community overall.
>

​We should probably cut to the chase and just name the location, since by
now it's common knowledge. Other than my previous comment about the lack of
inclusion of Eastern Europe—are we seriously suggesting holding one in
Russia and then one in (for instance) Warsaw? That seems to defeat the
point of this exercise somewhat.

Other than that, I personally commend this change. I only wish it had been
communicated more quickly.

best,
Joe


>
> Thank you.
>
> Yours,
>
> --
>
> James D. Forrester
>
> Chair, Wikimania Committee
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Ralf Roletschek]

I suggest the European Parliament in Strasbourgh (France) for 2019.

2015-10-04 20:42 GMT+02:00 Mounir Touzri :

> Dear all;
> I suggest North Africa for 2018 (Tunisia as an example)
>
> 2015-10-04 19:10 GMT+01:00 James Forrester :
>
>> All,
>>
>> TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement
>> department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for
>> future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the
>> next few months
>>
>> --
>>
>> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
>> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>>
>> The existing bidding process has developed over time. It has become
>> unwieldy and hard work for the community and staff. It demands that people
>> pour a huge amount of effort into building local teams, contracts and
>> institutional relationships only for rejected bids' work to be left unused.
>> A lot of pressure is put on volunteers to try to work on logistics rather
>> than dream about what would make a great programme for our communities.
>> Each year, the jury has to decide on a venue based on what is presented by
>> each group divisively, rather than what we as a community could come
>> together and build.
>>
>> The process is too short-term, setting out venue much less than two years
>> ahead (often only just more than twelve months in advance). This greatly
>> increases expenses when other similar conferences plan locations out many
>> years ahead. This makes it impossible for us to be strategic about
>> location, prevents us from arranging co-location with like-minded
>> conferences, and it means that some areas of the world are ignored when
>> they could provide great Wikimanias.
>>
>> Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
>> four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
>> years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
>> parentheses
>>
>> * Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)
>>
>> * Canada and United States (2006, 2012)
>>
>> * Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)
>>
>> * Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)
>>
>> * Latin America (2009, 2015)
>>
>> * Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)
>>
>> * South Asia (none yet)
>>
>> * Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)
>>
>> * Oceania (none yet)
>>
>> The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
>> sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.
>>
>> The large majority of our community members are based in either North
>> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
>> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
>> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
>> community members wherever they are based.
>>
>> Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
>> from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
>> movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
>> will take place neither in Europe nor North America.
>>
>> We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
>> "Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
>> out several years into the future. Beyond the first two areas, we may not
>> visit some as often as others. (I have not listed Antarctica as an area to
>> which we will rotate, which may well be a disappointment to members of the
>> British Antarctic Survey and others in that location.)
>>
>> More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as open,
>> engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania
>> conference. I know that several chapters run country-specific conferences
>> each year, which is a good move. I think that there should be at least one
>> annual Wikimedia conference in each of these areas. This would help newer
>> editors know that there are people like them nearby without requiring the
>> existence of, or putting too great a demand on, every national chapter or
>> other local affiliated body. In some areas like Africa where the distances
>> are great, multiple regional conferences may make sense.
>>
>> As part of the new system of location selection, we will no longer have a
>> 'bidding' process. Instead, the Committee invites people interested in
>> leading or helping to run a Wikimania to contact us on-wiki
>> , or via the wikimania-l
>> list. If you think that you know a great team, venue or concept for holding
>> Wikimania, in your area or anywhere else, please discuss the possibilities
>> with us. We will work with interested community members to narrow down the
>> selection to a particular venue.
>>
>> Our next few locations will thus go like this:
>>
>> * 2016: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Lodewijk]

Michal's comments reflect part of what I'm thinking - and I think the exact
splits of the regions may require some further discussions. Given the notes
I've seen elsewhere, I trust that this is a first draft of the exact
outlines of the regions, and not necessarily definitive? For example, I was
also surprised to see your definition of 'North America' being US + Canada,
and not to include Mexico.

Either way, the underlying discussion is much more important: how do we
select our next Wikimanias, but maybe more importantly, what do we expect
from our annual conference. Because there lies an assumption under your
methods that we need more than 2 years of preparations, which I'm not
certain to agree with.

I'm all for a lighter conference in general, maybe with more focus on
online interaction. I think Esino Lario is a great experiment in that
respect, to go back a bit to the roots of Wikimania, in some respects. I
would be so glad to see lower standards for Wikimania, allowing more
volunteers to feel confident to participate in organising it. Less people,
even (I would be totally happy to limit it to 500-800 per year on-site).

This is a discussion we seem to skip each year as a community - what do we
expect exactly of Wikimania, what do we want to accomplish with it? What
are its goals? All other things (location, venue, structure, rotation)
should be following that outcome.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Michał Buczyński  wrote:

> Hello James,
>
> having read your announcement, I don't really see what you would like to
> consult with the community and when, as the decisions seem to be made by
> you and "we need to select very quickly the area for 2018, and after
> that, 2019 and beyond."
>
> I am also surprised that e.g. Gdańsk is in "Eastern Europe". And you put
> it in one venue bucket with Uzbekistan for some reason.
> Or that you "want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania will take
> place neither in Europe nor North America."  Combining these two would
> mean we could wait for a Wikimania in Ukraine, Poland, Mexico (Northern
> America) or some other "Eastern European" country (whatever it means here)
> forever.
>
> For the future, I would like to ask you and your committee for a more
> careful wording and a careful definition of geographic terms you want to
> use.
> I see this is a rushed anouncement but knowing that these decisions were
> done 80+ days ago makes it difficult to accept.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Michał Buczyński
> WMPL, WMF FDC member
>
> Dnia 4 października 2015 20:10 James Forrester napisał(a):
>
>
>
> All,
>
>
> TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement
> department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for
> future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the
> next few months
>
>
> --
>
>
> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>
>
> Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
> four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
> years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
> parentheses
>
>
> * Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)
>
> * Canada and United States (2006, 2012)
>
> * Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)
>
> * Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)
>
> * Latin America (2009, 2015)
>
> * Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)
>
> * South Asia (none yet)
>
> * Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)
>
> * Oceania (none yet)
>
>
> The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
> sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.
>
>
> The large majority of our community members are based in either North
> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
> community members wherever they are based.
>
>
> Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
> from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
> movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
> will take place neither in Europe nor North America.
>
>
> We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
> "Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
> out several years into the future. Beyond the first two areas, we may not
> visit some as often as others. (I have not listed Antarctica as an area to
> which we will rotate, which may well be a disappointment to members of the
> British Antarctic Survey and others in that location.)
>
>
> More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as open,
> engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania
> conference. I know that 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Luca Martinelli]

2015-10-04 21:37 GMT+02:00 Michał Buczyński :
> I am also surprised that e.g. Gdańsk is in "Eastern Europe". And you put it
> in one venue bucket with Uzbekistan for some reason.
> Or that you "want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania will take
> place neither in Europe nor North America."  Combining these two would mean
> we could wait for a Wikimania in Ukraine, Poland, Mexico (Northern America)
> or some other "Eastern European" country (whatever it means here) forever.
>
> For the future, I would like to ask you and your committee for a more
> careful wording and a careful definition of geographic terms you want to
> use.

2015-10-04 21:44 GMT+02:00 Lodewijk :
> Michal's comments reflect part of what I'm thinking - and I think the exact
> splits of the regions may require some further discussions. Given the notes
> I've seen elsewhere, I trust that this is a first draft of the exact
> outlines of the regions, and not necessarily definitive? For example, I was
> also surprised to see your definition of 'North America' being US + Canada,
> and not to include Mexico.

While I do agree with the necessity of a reform of the Wikimania
bidding process, I have to say that I totally quote those two passages
from Michal and Lodewijk. My main concern is how the areas will be
defined (and probably the UN macro-region division doesn't work that
well), and secondly how the areas will rotate.

At the moment, I do acknowledge that the "Western World" may have more
users than other areas, but if our idea is (to quote James himself)
"to support the movement worldwide", allowing countries that are not
the US, Canada or
just-any-European-country-that-is-not-a-Central-Eastern-Europe-country
to organise just one in three Wikimania IMHO won't work.

Anyway, let's just think of how to refine this draft. :)

-- 
Luca "Sannita" Martinelli
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

What I like about the explicit rotation:
* more transparency, the rotation is no longer an unwritten rule;
* more time (2 years) to make Wikimania great, less volunteer time spent 
on (concurring) bids;
* more concreteness and (hopefully) cooperation in the selection stage, 
less "let's beat continent X";
* more pragmatism, recognising we can't always flight the biggest groups 
of people in the farthest places.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Osmar Valdebenito]

I'm simply baffled in the way the Committee has just decided to explicitly
reduce the participation from the so-called Global South, specially when we
are supposed to promote the communities in those countries. Although I
agree and understand that places with bigger communities should host
Wikimania more often, the decided rotation is more unbalanced that in the
past. Since 2009, Wikimania has rotated between the Global North and the
Global South each year; now, the Global North will have 2 Wikimanias for
each one hosted in the Global South (and I'm not considering the case of
developed countries -such as Poland or Australia- hosting those years with
the weird classification others have pointed out).

Considering this rotation system, one of 21 countries from Latin America
will only have an opportunity to host in 2035, while the US will have the
opportunity 7 times in the same timespan. Absurd.

2015-10-04 18:01 GMT-03:00 aude :

>
> On Oct 4, 2015 8:10 PM, "James Forrester"  wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> > TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement
> department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for
> future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the
> next few months
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
> >
> >
> > The existing bidding process has developed over time. It has become
> unwieldy and hard work for the community and staff. It demands that people
> pour a huge amount of effort into building local teams, contracts and
> institutional relationships only for rejected bids' work to be left unused.
> A lot of pressure is put on volunteers to try to work on logistics rather
> than dream about what would make a great programme for our communities.
> Each year, the jury has to decide on a venue based on what is presented by
> each group divisively, rather than what we as a community could come
> together and build.
> >
> >
> > The process is too short-term, setting out venue much less than two
> years ahead (often only just more than twelve months in advance). This
> greatly increases expenses when other similar conferences plan locations
> out many years ahead. This makes it impossible for us to be strategic about
> location, prevents us from arranging co-location with like-minded
> conferences, and it means that some areas of the world are ignored when
> they could provide great Wikimanias.
> >
> >
> > Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
> four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
> years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
> parentheses
> >
> >
> > * Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)
> >
> > * Canada and United States (2006, 2012)
> >
> > * Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)
> >
> > * Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)
> >
> > * Latin America (2009, 2015)
> >
> > * Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)
> >
> > * South Asia (none yet)
> >
> > * Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)
> >
> > * Oceania (none yet)
> >
> >
> > The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
> sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.
> >
> >
> > The large majority of our community members are based in either North
> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
> community members wherever they are based.
> >
> >
> > Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
> from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
> movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
> will take place neither in Europe nor North America.
> >
> >
> > We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
> "Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
> out several years into the future.
>
> I am not convinced this is a good idea, given this definition of regions.
>
> Eastern Europe should definitely be considered along with western,
> southern, ...  It is pretty cheap to travel there from elsewhere in europe,
> probably venue + accommodations are cheaper, and most important we have
> significant communities there with track record of organising regional
> conferences.
> I would also be tempted to include north Africa and middle east with
> europe. (after all, the next European hackathon is being held in Israel)
>
> I also think having wikimania in Canada + US every three years is too
> often. The visa process for the US is hugely annoying, difficult and
> results in excluding attendees.
>
> Also, while great and important to have wmf support for 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Joseph Fox]

On 4 October 2015 at 22:01, aude  wrote:

> I am not convinced this is a good idea, given this definition of regions.
>
> Eastern Europe should definitely be considered along with western,
> southern, ...  It is pretty cheap to travel there from elsewhere in europe,
> probably venue + accommodations are cheaper, and most important we have
> significant communities there with track record of organising regional
> conferences.
> I would also be tempted to include north Africa and middle east with
> europe. (after all, the next European hackathon is being held in Israel)
>
> I also think having wikimania in Canada + US every three years is too
> often. The visa process for the US is hugely annoying, difficult and
> results in excluding attendees.
>
> Also, while great and important to have wmf support for wikimania, imho it
> is important that ultimate leadership for wikimania each year is from
> volunteers. I am not sure the volunteer community in the US + Canada has
> this capacity to be lead organizer every three years. Maybe once every four
> years is reasonable, imho.
>
> Also, stuff like accommodations tends to be a bit expensive in the US
> compared to elsewhere, and flights within north America (especially Canada)
> are also somewhat pricey in my experience.
>
​Likewise, accommodation in western, northern and southern Europe is also
pretty expensive.

I'll agree that having US/Canada hold the conference every three years is a
bad idea for the community, even if convenient for the WMF and their staff.

> Cheers,
> Katie
>
> Beyond the first two areas, we may not visit some as often as others. (I
> have not listed Antarctica as an area to which we will rotate, which may
> well be a disappointment to members of the British Antarctic Survey and
> others in that location.)
> >
> >
> > More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as open,
> engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania
> conference. I know that several chapters run country-specific conferences
> each year, which is a good move. I think that there should be at least one
> annual Wikimedia conference in each of these areas. This would help newer
> editors know that there are people like them nearby without requiring the
> existence of, or putting too great a demand on, every national chapter or
> other local affiliated body. In some areas like Africa where the distances
> are great, multiple regional conferences may make sense.
> >
> >
> > As part of the new system of location selection, we will no longer have
> a 'bidding' process. Instead, the Committee invites people interested in
> leading or helping to run a Wikimania to contact us on-wiki, or via the
> wikimania-l list. If you think that you know a great team, venue or concept
> for holding Wikimania, in your area or anywhere else, please discuss the
> possibilities with us. We will work with interested community members to
> narrow down the selection to a particular venue.
> >
> >
> > Our next few locations will thus go like this:
> >
> >
> > * 2016: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – Esino Lario in Italy
> >
> > * 2017: Canada and United States – TBD
> >
> > * 2018: TBD – TBD
> >
> > * 2019: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – TBD
> >
> > * 2020: Canada and United States – TBD
> >
> > * 2021: TBD – TBD
> >
> >
> > As you can see, as well as picking the 2017 venue in Canada or the
> United States, for which we have a candidate lined up, we need to select
> very quickly the area for 2018, and after that, 2019 and beyond. There are
> several areas we’ve outlined above that have never had a Wikimania, and
> others where we have not visited for some time. We would love your thoughts
> on the areas on which we should focus for 2018 and beyond. We’ll also be
> asking in future for your thoughts about how to structure the programme of
> each Wikimania to make it as good as it can be for you, for others, and for
> our community overall.
> >
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > --
> >
> > James D. Forrester
> >
> > Chair, Wikimania Committee
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> >
>
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>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Charles Gregory]

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 8:41 AM, Osmar Valdebenito  wrote:

> I'm simply baffled in the way the Committee has just decided to explicitly
> reduce the participation from the so-called Global South, specially when we
> are supposed to promote the communities in those countries. Although I
> agree and understand that places with bigger communities should host
> Wikimania more often, the decided rotation is more unbalanced that in the
> past. Since 2009, Wikimania has rotated between the Global North and the
> Global South each year; now, the Global North will have 2 Wikimanias for
> each one hosted in the Global South (and I'm not considering the case of
> developed countries -such as Poland or Australia- hosting those years with
> the weird classification others have pointed out).
>
> Considering this rotation system, one of 21 countries from Latin America
> will only have an opportunity to host in 2035, while the US will have the
> opportunity 7 times in the same timespan. Absurd.
>

.. and if Mexico, Eastern Europe, and North Africa hosts (because so far as
accessibility goes - travel time/costs, etc - these practically are North
America and European hosts) are chosen, then according to these rules it
could easily go over 10 consecutive years without leaving those regions.
Pushing areas like South America and the Asia-Pacific further down the
priority list, and Australia from "almost never" to "never".

Regards,
Charles / User:Chuq
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Luca Martinelli]

2015-10-04 23:01 GMT+02:00 aude :
> On Oct 4, 2015 8:10 PM, "James Forrester"  wrote:
>> We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
>> "Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
>> out several years into the future.
>
> I am not convinced this is a good idea, given this definition of regions.
>
> Eastern Europe should definitely be considered along with western, southern,
> ...  It is pretty cheap to travel there from elsewhere in europe, probably
> venue + accommodations are cheaper, and most important we have significant
> communities there with track record of organising regional conferences.
> I would also be tempted to include north Africa and middle east with europe.
> (after all, the next European hackathon is being held in Israel)

I think that the mistake comes from the UN macroregion system, which
is unfortunately still affected by Cold War considerations for what it
may concern the "Eastern Europe" macroregion.

Moving from James' idea of a three-years rotation between regions, and
taking into account Katie's idea, we may define three rotating areas:
* First year: Europe + Middle East + North Africa
* Second year: Americas + Oceania
* Third year: rest of Asia + Sub-Saharan Africa

This will give Global North a slight statistical advantage over Global
South (all of Europe is included in GN) the first year, a 50/50 chance
the second year, while on the third year it will be Global South to
have a slight statistical advantage over Global North.

-- 
Luca "Sannita" Martinelli
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Nathan]

James,

Can you describe the source of your authority, and that of the committee,
to make such a decision? Do you have the approval of Lila and/or the Board?
Which movement organizations, including those responsible for funding
endeavours like Wikimania, did you consult?

~Nathan

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:10 PM, James Forrester 
wrote:

> All,
>
> TL;DR: The Wikimania Committee and the WMF Community Engagement
> department will be working on coming up with a new process for venues for
> future Wikimanias, which we will be seeking input from the community in the
> next few months
>
> --
>
> At the Committee’s meeting in Mexico City in August, we agreed to alter
> the way that Wikimania locations are decided.
>
> The existing bidding process has developed over time. It has become
> unwieldy and hard work for the community and staff. It demands that people
> pour a huge amount of effort into building local teams, contracts and
> institutional relationships only for rejected bids' work to be left unused.
> A lot of pressure is put on volunteers to try to work on logistics rather
> than dream about what would make a great programme for our communities.
> Each year, the jury has to decide on a venue based on what is presented by
> each group divisively, rather than what we as a community could come
> together and build.
>
> The process is too short-term, setting out venue much less than two years
> ahead (often only just more than twelve months in advance). This greatly
> increases expenses when other similar conferences plan locations out many
> years ahead. This makes it impossible for us to be strategic about
> location, prevents us from arranging co-location with like-minded
> conferences, and it means that some areas of the world are ignored when
> they could provide great Wikimanias.
>
> Consequently, from now on the Committee will pick an area for Wikimania
> four to five years in advance, from the following (provisional) list.   The
> years in which we have already held Wikimanias in these areas are shown in
> parentheses
>
> * Western, Northern, and Southern Europe (2005, 2014)
>
> * Canada and United States (2006, 2012)
>
> * Asia-Pacific (2007, 2013)
>
> * Middle East and North Africa (2008, 2011)
>
> * Latin America (2009, 2015)
>
> * Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia (2010)
>
> * South Asia (none yet)
>
> * Sub-Saharan Africa (none yet)
>
> * Oceania (none yet)
>
> The Committee intends to deliberately rotate between these areas to make
> sure we allow as many community members to attend as cheaply as possible.
>
> The large majority of our community members are based in either North
> America or Europe; organising Wikimanias in these areas allows the majority
> of our community members to attend cheaply, so that money spent on
> scholarships can go further, and be more focussed in supporting our
> community members wherever they are based.
>
> Locating Wikimania in other continents does not assure that participants
> from these areas  can attend more cheaply. Nevertheless, to support the
> movement worldwide, we do want to ensure that, every third year, Wikimania
> will take place neither in Europe nor North America.
>
> We  propose that a sequence of "Western, Northern, and Southern Europe",
> "Canada and United States", and one of the others every three years, picked
> out several years into the future. Beyond the first two areas, we may not
> visit some as often as others. (I have not listed Antarctica as an area to
> which we will rotate, which may well be a disappointment to members of the
> British Antarctic Survey and others in that location.)
>
> More widely, we would like to encourage Wikimedia conferences as open,
> engaging and fun community meetups, alongside the annual Wikimania
> conference. I know that several chapters run country-specific conferences
> each year, which is a good move. I think that there should be at least one
> annual Wikimedia conference in each of these areas. This would help newer
> editors know that there are people like them nearby without requiring the
> existence of, or putting too great a demand on, every national chapter or
> other local affiliated body. In some areas like Africa where the distances
> are great, multiple regional conferences may make sense.
>
> As part of the new system of location selection, we will no longer have a
> 'bidding' process. Instead, the Committee invites people interested in
> leading or helping to run a Wikimania to contact us on-wiki
> , or via the wikimania-l
> list. If you think that you know a great team, venue or concept for holding
> Wikimania, in your area or anywhere else, please discuss the possibilities
> with us. We will work with interested community members to narrow down the
> selection to a particular venue.
>
> Our next few locations will thus go like this:
>
> * 2016: Western, Northern, and Southern Europe – Esino Lario in 

[Wikimania-l] (no subject)

[Chris Koerner]

Thanks James for the clarification. I agree with Nemo, I like how things are 
spelled out in advanced with less ambiguity. 

Yours,
Chris K.

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:55 PM, wikimania-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
> 
> Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania
>selection

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