[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Peter Southwood 
Fair comment. If you want to keep editors, make sure they have functioning 
tools. Is this not one of the reasons WMF was originally formed?

Cheers,

Peter

 

From: DerHexer via Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org] 
Sent: 29 December 2021 12:11
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Cc: DerHexer
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us 
and prepare

 

I have to agree with Gnangarra: Why should keeping one of our major projects 
running require a global popularity vote? The way how the various problems on 
Commons are (not!) handled by WMF and others is not acceptable anymore. We 
don't need a poll to detect that! It's not a wish we have, it's a demand we 
make: Get Commons fixed now, as soon as possible! And I don't care who does: 
WMF, WMDE, anybody else.

 

It's nice to have additional ressources for popular community wishes but clean 
up your own backyard first!

 

Best,

DerHexer (Top 10 contributor on Commons, Commons administrator, Steward)

 

 

Am Mittwoch, 29. Dezember 2021, 10:32:22 MEZ hat Amir Sarabadani 
 Folgendes geschrieben: 

 

 

The wishlist survey is defined as:

> The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows contributors to 
> the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and platform improvements

 

That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community can 
wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the multimedia 
platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be picked up.

 

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  wrote:

Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many people had 
high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities that are committed to 
this project. I feel this needs to be a super clear fact from the start and not 
ask for the global community to commit XYZ number of hours in the actions of 
promoting, translating, proposing and decision making processes when developers 
can commit far less back to the same community. Otherwise it feels like 
unbalanced work from a more holistic perspective, but this is also 
non-exceptional...no? 

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
If the Wishlist Survey 2022 goes on, my proposal will be simple: make the first 
50 wishes. We have money. We need it. And we are not doing essential things. 
Also, solving platform issues shouldn't be something to vote on. I don't 
understand why we have to vote to have solutions to even basic infrastructure 
issues.

Best,
Galder

From: Mike Peel 
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 7:23 PM
To: DerHexer via Wikimedia-l 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us 
and prepare

I agree with the issues here, but I don't think that the solution should
be to get rid of the wishlist. Instead, it really should be expanded so
it can handle many more of the wishes, since there are many good ones
that keep getting proposed but just don't get enough votes to be in the
top ten.

Thanks,
Mike

On 29/12/21 10:11:14, DerHexer via Wikimedia-l wrote:
> I have to agree with Gnangarra: Why should keeping one of our major
> projects running require a global popularity vote? The way how the
> various problems on Commons are (not!) handled by WMF and others is not
> acceptable anymore. We don't need a poll to detect that! It's not a wish
> we have, it's a demand we make: Get Commons fixed now, as soon as
> possible! And I don't care who does: WMF, WMDE, anybody else.
>
> It's nice to have additional ressources for popular community wishes
> but clean up your own backyard first!
>
> Best,
> DerHexer (Top 10 contributor on Commons, Commons administrator, Steward)
>
>
> Am Mittwoch, 29. Dezember 2021, 10:32:22 MEZ hat Amir Sarabadani
>  Folgendes geschrieben:
>
>
> The wishlist survey is defined as:
>  > The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows
> contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and
> platform improvements
>
> That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community
> can wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the
> multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be
> picked up.
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  > wrote:
>
> Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
> people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities
> that are committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super
> clear fact from the start and not ask for the global community to
> commit XYZ number of hours in the actions of promoting, translating,
> proposing and decision making processes when developers can commit
> far less back to the same community. Otherwise it feels like
> unbalanced work from a more holistic perspective, but this is also
> non-exceptional...no?
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Mike Peel 
I agree with the issues here, but I don't think that the solution should 
be to get rid of the wishlist. Instead, it really should be expanded so 
it can handle many more of the wishes, since there are many good ones 
that keep getting proposed but just don't get enough votes to be in the 
top ten.


Thanks,
Mike

On 29/12/21 10:11:14, DerHexer via Wikimedia-l wrote:
I have to agree with Gnangarra: Why should keeping one of our major 
projects running require a global popularity vote? The way how the 
various problems on Commons are (not!) handled by WMF and others is not 
acceptable anymore. We don't need a poll to detect that! It's not a wish 
we have, it's a demand we make: Get Commons fixed now, as soon as 
possible! And I don't care who does: WMF, WMDE, anybody else.


It's nice to have additional ressources for popular community wishes 
but clean up your own backyard first!


Best,
DerHexer (Top 10 contributor on Commons, Commons administrator, Steward)


Am Mittwoch, 29. Dezember 2021, 10:32:22 MEZ hat Amir Sarabadani 
 Folgendes geschrieben:



The wishlist survey is defined as:
 > The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows 
contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and 
platform improvements


That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community 
can wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the 
multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be 
picked up.


On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće > wrote:


Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities
that are committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super
clear fact from the start and not ask for the global community to
commit XYZ number of hours in the actions of promoting, translating,
proposing and decision making processes when developers can commit
far less back to the same community. Otherwise it feels like
unbalanced work from a more holistic perspective, but this is also
non-exceptional...no?
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Stewards User Group 2021 report

2021-12-29 Thread Isaac Olatunde 
The Stewards Wikimedia User Group is a small group of people doing some
boring tasks.

Thanks for all the works you do and I found the report very interesting.

Regards.

Isaac

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021, 16:25 DerHexer via Wikimedia-l, <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Wikimedia folks!
>
> Please find the Wikimedia Stewards User Group 2021 report here
> 
> .
>
> Best,
> DerHexer
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Stewards User Group 2021 report

2021-12-29 Thread DerHexer via Wikimedia-l 
Hi Wikimedia folks!
Please find the Wikimedia Stewards User Group 2021 report here.
Best,DerHexer___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread DerHexer via Wikimedia-l 
 I have to agree with Gnangarra: Why should keeping one of our major projects 
running require a global popularity vote? The way how the various problems on 
Commons are (not!) handled by WMF and others is not acceptable anymore. We 
don't need a poll to detect that! It's not a wish we have, it's a demand we 
make: Get Commons fixed now, as soon as possible! And I don't care who does: 
WMF, WMDE, anybody else.
It's nice to have additional ressources for popular community wishes but clean 
up your own backyard first!
Best,DerHexer (Top 10 contributor on Commons, Commons administrator, Steward)

Am Mittwoch, 29. Dezember 2021, 10:32:22 MEZ hat Amir Sarabadani 
 Folgendes geschrieben:  
 
 The wishlist survey is defined as:> The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual 
survey that allows contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote 
for tools and platform improvements
That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community can 
wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the multimedia 
platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be picked up.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  wrote:

Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many people had 
high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities that are committed to 
this project. I feel this needs to be a super clear fact from the start and not 
ask for the global community to commit XYZ number of hours in the actions of 
promoting, translating, proposing and decision making processes when developers 
can commit far less back to the same community. Otherwise it feels like 
unbalanced work from a more holistic perspective, but this is also 
non-exceptional...no? ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Gnangarra 
The wishlist has reached the end of useful life, I think before we go down
that track again we have to look hard at what purpose it serves and what
other parts of the whole IT/programming area needs to be consider. To do
that put the wish list on hold, clear the backlog of phabricator tickets
and bring what tools we have had created over the last 15 years back to
full serviceability or shut them down and replace them.

In saying that, there may still be a much needed tool so limit what gets
accepted and ask for needs fixing

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 at 19:26, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:

> I'm not debating your note. It is very valid that we lack proper support
> for multimedia stack. I myself wrote a detailed rant on how broken it is
> [1] but three notes:
>  - Fixing something like this takes time, you need to assign the budget
> for it (which means it has to be done during the annual planning) and if
> gets approved, you need to start it with the fiscal year (meaning July
> 2022) and then hire (meaning, write JD, do recruitment, interview lots of
> people, get them hired) which can take from several months to years. Once
> they are hired, you need to onboard them and let them learn about our
> technical infrastructure which takes at least two good months. Software
> engineering is not magic, it takes time, blood and sweat. [2]
>  - Making another team focus on multimedia requires changes in planning,
> budget, OKR, etc. etc. Are we sure moving the focus of teams is a good
> idea? Most teams are already focusing on vital parts of wikimedia and
> changing the focus will turn this into a whack-a-mole game where we fix
> multimedia but now we have critical issues in security or performance.
>  - Voting Wishlist survey is a good band-aid in the meantime. To at least
> address the worst parts for now.
>
> I don't understand your point tbh, either you think it's a good idea to
> make requests for improvements in multimedia in the wishlist survey or you
> think it's not. If you think it's not, then it's offtopic to this thread.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/WMPZHMXSLQJ6GONAVTFLDFFMPNJDVORS/
> [2] There is a classic book in this topic called "The Mythical Man-month"
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 11:41 AM Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> we have to vote for regular maintenance and support for
>> essential functions like uploading files which is the core mission of
>> Wikimedia Commons
>>
>> On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 at 17:32, Amir Sarabadani 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The wishlist survey is defined as:
>>> > The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows
>>> contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and
>>> platform improvements
>>>
>>> That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community
>>> can wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the
>>> multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be
>>> picked up.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  wrote:
>>>
 Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
 people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities that are
 committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super clear fact from
 the start and not ask for the global community to commit XYZ number of
 hours in the actions of promoting, translating, proposing and decision
 making processes when developers can commit far less back to the same
 community. Otherwise it feels like unbalanced work from a more holistic
 perspective, but this is also non-exceptional...no?
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
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 To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Amir (he/him)
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> *
>>  2021*
>> *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia*
>>
>>
>> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u
>>
>>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Amir Sarabadani 
I'm not debating your note. It is very valid that we lack proper support
for multimedia stack. I myself wrote a detailed rant on how broken it is
[1] but three notes:
 - Fixing something like this takes time, you need to assign the budget for
it (which means it has to be done during the annual planning) and if gets
approved, you need to start it with the fiscal year (meaning July 2022) and
then hire (meaning, write JD, do recruitment, interview lots of people, get
them hired) which can take from several months to years. Once they are
hired, you need to onboard them and let them learn about our technical
infrastructure which takes at least two good months. Software engineering
is not magic, it takes time, blood and sweat. [2]
 - Making another team focus on multimedia requires changes in planning,
budget, OKR, etc. etc. Are we sure moving the focus of teams is a good
idea? Most teams are already focusing on vital parts of wikimedia and
changing the focus will turn this into a whack-a-mole game where we fix
multimedia but now we have critical issues in security or performance.
 - Voting Wishlist survey is a good band-aid in the meantime. To at least
address the worst parts for now.

I don't understand your point tbh, either you think it's a good idea to
make requests for improvements in multimedia in the wishlist survey or you
think it's not. If you think it's not, then it's offtopic to this thread.

[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/WMPZHMXSLQJ6GONAVTFLDFFMPNJDVORS/
[2] There is a classic book in this topic called "The Mythical Man-month"

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 11:41 AM Gnangarra  wrote:

> we have to vote for regular maintenance and support for
> essential functions like uploading files which is the core mission of
> Wikimedia Commons
>
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 at 17:32, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
>> The wishlist survey is defined as:
>> > The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows
>> contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and
>> platform improvements
>>
>> That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community
>> can wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the
>> multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be
>> picked up.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  wrote:
>>
>>> Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
>>> people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities that are
>>> committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super clear fact from
>>> the start and not ask for the global community to commit XYZ number of
>>> hours in the actions of promoting, translating, proposing and decision
>>> making processes when developers can commit far less back to the same
>>> community. Otherwise it feels like unbalanced work from a more holistic
>>> perspective, but this is also non-exceptional...no?
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
>>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> Public archives at
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/W2DTMUUD76RCBVPOJ3VGSJKPYL7V6EZF/
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Amir (he/him)
>>
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> * 2021*
> *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia*
>
>
> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u
>
>
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Gnangarra 
we have to vote for regular maintenance and support for essential functions
like uploading files which is the core mission of Wikimedia Commons

On Wed, 29 Dec 2021 at 17:32, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:

> The wishlist survey is defined as:
> > The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows
> contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and
> platform improvements
>
> That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community
> can wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the
> multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be
> picked up.
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  wrote:
>
>> Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
>> people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities that are
>> committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super clear fact from
>> the start and not ask for the global community to commit XYZ number of
>> hours in the actions of promoting, translating, proposing and decision
>> making processes when developers can commit far less back to the same
>> community. Otherwise it feels like unbalanced work from a more holistic
>> perspective, but this is also non-exceptional...no?
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>
>
>
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> Amir (he/him)
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

2021-12-29 Thread Amir Sarabadani 
The wishlist survey is defined as:
> The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows
contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and
platform improvements

That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community can
wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the
multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be
picked up.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  wrote:

> Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
> people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities that are
> committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super clear fact from
> the start and not ask for the global community to commit XYZ number of
> hours in the actions of promoting, translating, proposing and decision
> making processes when developers can commit far less back to the same
> community. Otherwise it feels like unbalanced work from a more holistic
> perspective, but this is also non-exceptional...no?
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org



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