Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Trillium Corsage]

Risker, I don't think it's necessary for you to accuse Fae of bad faith from 
anything he wrote that you quoted. Your paraphrase of him "very clearly 
implying that there is something untoward about selecting the group tasked to 
make the recommendation based on both volunteer and professional experience" is 
completely different from his statement "a WMF employee make community 
decisions for us (such as appointing the Jury that has our full authority for 
deciding where Wikimania will be held."

All below.

Trillium Corsage

> Fae, I'm sorry, but I'm seeing a lot of bad faith in your messaging here.
> Everyone who is part of the jury is a longtime volunteer, with the
> exception of the WMF staffer who has been intensively working on Wikimanias
> for the last two years so has a great deal of experience with the actual
> management of the Wikimania conference. Several of the jurors have very
> deep experience in handling conferences, by dint of their real-world
> experiences, which in some cases include holding roles on chapter staff. I
> am having a really hard time understanding why you are very clearly
> implying that there is something untoward about selecting the group tasked
> to make the recommendation based on both volunteer and professional
> experience. And yes, I think selecting a group that actually has these
> attributes is considerably better than selecting a group with no particular
> criteria, or what appeared to be the previous criteria of "has been to lots
> of Wikimanias before". The latter has not been a particularly useful
> criterion, since attending conferences does not give insight to
> the managing of a conference.
> 
> People are appointed to other committees and groups based on factors that
> are external to their attendance at certain conferences or their edit count
> all the time. There is a need to have accountants on the Audit committee.
> There is a need to have people experienced with checkuser on the Ombud
> committee. The selection of the Wikimania jury based on actual skill and
> experience instead of popularity or number of conferences attended is a
> positive sign of a maturing organization recognizing the value of the
> conference. It's never been an elected position, and there's no basis in
> anything that anyone has said on this list that would indicate that making
> it an elected position would lead to a somehow better process for
> identifying the next Wikimania location.
> 
> Risker/Anne
> 
> On 10 October 2014 10:44, Fæ  wrote:
> 
>> On 10 October 2014 14:58, Lodewijk  wrote:
>>
>>> If you're interested in discussing the future of Wikimania, perhaps it
>>> makes sense to do that on the dedicated list? Just a wild thought.
>>
>> Thanks for the thought. Itzik's general question was posted to
>> Wikimedia-l, so answering it here makes sense. No doubt most readers
>> of wikimedia-l are like myself and do not normally follow wikimania-l.
>>
>> Governance and transparency issues for Wikimania are of more general
>> interest than a readership of "Wikimania attendees, presenters, and
>> fans", particularly when as a community of volunteers we have chosen
>> to let a WMF employee make community decisions for us (such as
>> appointing the Jury that has our full authority for deciding where
>> Wikimania will be held, along with the political and financial
>> implications of support contracts and investing significant money in a
>> chosen country).
>>
>> Wikimania has become a big business with significant press attention
>> and associated significant risks. It benefits from having many
>> volunteers in our movement asking questions and ensuring that the main
>> body of unpaid volunteers are happy that it is directed by volunteers
>> and focused on our community, rather than the interests of partners,
>> other commerical rationales or indeed the interests of the WMF which
>> is not exactly the same as the interests of the wider Wikimedia
>> community/beneficiaries.
>>
>> As an unpaid volunteer at Wikimania in London, I was very interested
>> in talking to other unpaid volunteers, some of whom were taking part
>> because they wanted to gain experience in event management for their
>> CVs but with no prior understanding of what Wikimania projects
>> actually were. I think that's okay, we welcome this sort of support,
>> but how these varied interests should be managed to meet our shared
>> open knowledge ethics and values is something to continue to ponder as
>> our movement continues to grow, particularly if measured by how many
>> tens of millions of dollars are donated to us each year -- which seems
>> to be the critical measure of success used by the WMF and the
>> international press.
>>
>> Fae
>> --
>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>
>> ___
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>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Nathan]

He's already stated his concerns  repeatedly. It would be a lot more
constructive if he had any suggestions for improvement. As always, the
issue with Fae's comments is that he buries a valid point in a mess of
combative argumentation and borderline offensive aspersions. If he believes
the process needs to be reformed, then even a single polite suggestion for
an improvement would be welcome.


On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Michael Peel  wrote:

> That seems rather unfair. Fæ is raising some valid points about how this
> process has taken place this year, which are worth addressing. Dismissing
> concerns unless there is a comprehensive proposal for reform seems like a
> reduction to bureaucracy…
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Michael Peel]

That seems rather unfair. Fæ is raising some valid points about how this 
process has taken place this year, which are worth addressing. Dismissing 
concerns unless there is a comprehensive proposal for reform seems like a 
reduction to bureaucracy…

Thanks,
Mike

On 10 Oct 2014, at 18:26, Nathan  wrote:

> I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting with interest to see Fae's 
> comprehensive proposal for reforming the process. Once that proposal has been 
> offered, anyone interested can comment on whether it is an improvement to the 
> current process. If the consensus is that it is, great! If not, then we can 
> move on. If no proposal for change is offered, then there isn't much to 
> discuss. 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 10.10.2014 18:56, Fæ wrote:



As for transparency, you are not in a strong position to lecture,
considering that your behind-the-scenes actions got me banned from the
English Wikipedia just a couple of days after Phillipe Beadette had a
supposedly personal and private conversation with you and yet you have
failed to ever explain your actions.

Thanks,
Fae


I do not think such gossip has a place on this list. Please consider 
apologizing to Risker and do not repeat it here again.


Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Nathan]

I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting with interest to see Fae's
comprehensive proposal for reforming the process. Once that proposal has
been offered, anyone interested can comment on whether it is an improvement
to the current process. If the consensus is that it is, great! If not, then
we can move on. If no proposal for change is offered, then there isn't much
to discuss.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Fæ, 10/10/2014 16:44:

[...] a WMF employee make community decisions for us (such as
appointing the Jury  [...]


I've not inspected the facts in detail, but as far as I could understand 
this is NOT what happened, so it's a bit annoying to hear you repeat it 
continuously. I added a summary to 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_jury some days ago and I 
encourage everyone to edit it (with references, where controversial).


I'm sure it will be easier to discuss productively once we've agreed 
upon the essential facts.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

Hi Risker,

You seem to have missed the point, this is not a question of bad faith
in any person. Itzik's question exposed failure in making a key
procedure in how our movement manages funding properly transparent.
Please do not derail the issue into one of personalities. There is no
doubt that all appointed members of the Jury are great people, this
was never the question here.

As for transparency, you are not in a strong position to lecture,
considering that your behind-the-scenes actions got me banned from the
English Wikipedia just a couple of days after Phillipe Beadette had a
supposedly personal and private conversation with you and yet you have
failed to ever explain your actions.

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Risker]

Fae, I'm sorry, but I'm seeing a lot of bad faith in your messaging here.
Everyone who is part of the jury is a longtime volunteer, with the
exception of the WMF staffer who has been intensively working on Wikimanias
for the last two years so has a great deal of experience with the actual
management of the Wikimania conference. Several of the jurors have very
deep experience in handling conferences, by dint of their real-world
experiences, which in some cases include holding roles on chapter staff.  I
am having a really hard time understanding why you are very clearly
implying that there is something untoward about selecting the group tasked
to make the recommendation based on both volunteer and professional
experience.  And yes, I think selecting a group that actually has these
attributes is considerably better than selecting a group with no particular
criteria, or what appeared to be the previous criteria of "has been to lots
of Wikimanias before".  The latter has not been a particularly useful
criterion, since attending conferences does not give insight to
the managing of a conference.

People are appointed to other committees and groups based on factors that
are external to their attendance at certain conferences or their edit count
all the time.  There is a need to have accountants on the Audit committee.
There is a need to have people experienced with checkuser on the Ombud
committee.  The selection of the Wikimania jury based on actual skill and
experience instead of popularity or number of conferences attended is a
positive sign of  a maturing organization recognizing the value of the
conference.  It's never been an elected position, and there's no basis in
anything that anyone has said on this list that would indicate that making
it an elected position would lead to a somehow better process for
identifying the next Wikimania location.

Risker/Anne



On 10 October 2014 10:44, Fæ  wrote:

> On 10 October 2014 14:58, Lodewijk  wrote:
> > If you're interested in discussing the future of Wikimania, perhaps it
> > makes sense to do that on the dedicated list? Just a wild thought.
>
> Thanks for the thought. Itzik's general question was posted to
> Wikimedia-l, so answering it here makes sense.  No doubt most readers
> of wikimedia-l are like myself and do not normally follow wikimania-l.
>
> Governance and transparency issues for Wikimania are of more general
> interest than a readership of "Wikimania attendees, presenters, and
> fans", particularly when as a community of volunteers we have chosen
> to let a WMF employee make community decisions for us (such as
> appointing the Jury that has our full authority for deciding where
> Wikimania will be held, along with the political and financial
> implications of support contracts and investing significant money in a
> chosen country).
>
> Wikimania has become a big business with significant press attention
> and associated significant risks. It benefits from having many
> volunteers in our movement asking questions and ensuring that the main
> body of unpaid volunteers are happy that it is directed by volunteers
> and focused on our community, rather than the interests of partners,
> other commerical rationales or indeed the interests of the WMF which
> is not exactly the same as the interests of the wider Wikimedia
> community/beneficiaries.
>
> As an unpaid volunteer at Wikimania in London, I was very interested
> in talking to other unpaid volunteers, some of whom were taking part
> because they wanted to gain experience in event management for their
> CVs but with no prior understanding of what Wikimania projects
> actually were. I think that's okay, we welcome this sort of support,
> but how these varied interests should be managed to meet our shared
> open knowledge ethics and values is something to continue to ponder as
> our movement continues to grow, particularly if measured by how many
> tens of millions of dollars are donated to us each year -- which seems
> to be the critical measure of success used by the WMF and the
> international press.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

On 10 October 2014 14:58, Lodewijk  wrote:
> If you're interested in discussing the future of Wikimania, perhaps it
> makes sense to do that on the dedicated list? Just a wild thought.

Thanks for the thought. Itzik's general question was posted to
Wikimedia-l, so answering it here makes sense.  No doubt most readers
of wikimedia-l are like myself and do not normally follow wikimania-l.

Governance and transparency issues for Wikimania are of more general
interest than a readership of "Wikimania attendees, presenters, and
fans", particularly when as a community of volunteers we have chosen
to let a WMF employee make community decisions for us (such as
appointing the Jury that has our full authority for deciding where
Wikimania will be held, along with the political and financial
implications of support contracts and investing significant money in a
chosen country).

Wikimania has become a big business with significant press attention
and associated significant risks. It benefits from having many
volunteers in our movement asking questions and ensuring that the main
body of unpaid volunteers are happy that it is directed by volunteers
and focused on our community, rather than the interests of partners,
other commerical rationales or indeed the interests of the WMF which
is not exactly the same as the interests of the wider Wikimedia
community/beneficiaries.

As an unpaid volunteer at Wikimania in London, I was very interested
in talking to other unpaid volunteers, some of whom were taking part
because they wanted to gain experience in event management for their
CVs but with no prior understanding of what Wikimania projects
actually were. I think that's okay, we welcome this sort of support,
but how these varied interests should be managed to meet our shared
open knowledge ethics and values is something to continue to ponder as
our movement continues to grow, particularly if measured by how many
tens of millions of dollars are donated to us each year -- which seems
to be the critical measure of success used by the WMF and the
international press.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Lodewijk]

If you're interested in discussing the future of Wikimania, perhaps it
makes sense to do that on the dedicated list? Just a wild thought.

Best, Lodewijk

2014-10-10 13:25 GMT+02:00 Fæ :

> Based on a prompt from Itzik, I checked the archives of wikimania-l
> (which I was not subscribed to). There is a message from Stuart Prior
> there with a very brief summary of background of jury members which I
> was unaware of and it may have been intended as a response to my
> question. Refer to
> <
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2014-October/006418.html
> >.
>
> For those that do subscribe to wikimania-l, please keep in mind that
> most readers of wikimedia-l do not see your responses unless you post
> here, and that posts from non-subscribers to wikimania-l get bounced.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 10 October 2014 11:48, Fæ  wrote:
> > The conclusion in response to Itzik's original question "how the
> > current jury was elected and by who", is that the Wikimania jury is
> > not elected, it was selected by a WMF employee against unpublished and
> > presumably undefined criteria. Sadly, there are no plans or commitment
> > by the WMF to change or improve this process to make it transparent or
> > volunteer-centric.
> >
> > We also know that at least 5 out of 7 members of the jury have been
> > employees. It may be more, but there has been no reply to this
> > question.
> >
> > It is disturbing that asking questions of governance is being parodied
> > as referring to jury members as "second class citizens". Nobody apart
> > from a member of the jury has made such a ridiculous statement.
> >
> > Being an employee is not something that should be hidden or kept
> > secret. The community should be free to ask questions about the
> > balance of volunteers in an important jury with responsibility for how
> > several hundred thousand dollars of donated funds gets spent in order
> > to ensure a healthy balance of viewpoints. Having basic governance
> > questions marginalized and parodied by the jury is a disappointing
> > demonstration of how transparency and accountability will be handled
> > for future Wikimania events.
> >
> > It is obvious that improvement is needed. It would be great to see
> > commitment to change, rather than just defence of the status quo.
> >
> > Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

Based on a prompt from Itzik, I checked the archives of wikimania-l
(which I was not subscribed to). There is a message from Stuart Prior
there with a very brief summary of background of jury members which I
was unaware of and it may have been intended as a response to my
question. Refer to
.

For those that do subscribe to wikimania-l, please keep in mind that
most readers of wikimedia-l do not see your responses unless you post
here, and that posts from non-subscribers to wikimania-l get bounced.

Thanks,
Fae

On 10 October 2014 11:48, Fæ  wrote:
> The conclusion in response to Itzik's original question "how the
> current jury was elected and by who", is that the Wikimania jury is
> not elected, it was selected by a WMF employee against unpublished and
> presumably undefined criteria. Sadly, there are no plans or commitment
> by the WMF to change or improve this process to make it transparent or
> volunteer-centric.
>
> We also know that at least 5 out of 7 members of the jury have been
> employees. It may be more, but there has been no reply to this
> question.
>
> It is disturbing that asking questions of governance is being parodied
> as referring to jury members as "second class citizens". Nobody apart
> from a member of the jury has made such a ridiculous statement.
>
> Being an employee is not something that should be hidden or kept
> secret. The community should be free to ask questions about the
> balance of volunteers in an important jury with responsibility for how
> several hundred thousand dollars of donated funds gets spent in order
> to ensure a healthy balance of viewpoints. Having basic governance
> questions marginalized and parodied by the jury is a disappointing
> demonstration of how transparency and accountability will be handled
> for future Wikimania events.
>
> It is obvious that improvement is needed. It would be great to see
> commitment to change, rather than just defence of the status quo.
>
> Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Béria Lima]

I do agree that it should be great to have a transparent way to elect the
jury, but people, let's at least take the word or the people who commented
here. The ones who come here and said "I do work for a wikimedia org, but
I'm in the jury as a volunteer". Why do not believe in then? Most of then
(the ones I know about) are long standing volunteers so it IS possible that
was because of that they were chosen. If the criteria were open would be
better and we wouldnt have that questions, yes. But let's try to keep civil
with the people who DID volunteer to be members of the jury.

_
*​Béria L​. de Rodríguez*

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho.*

2014-10-10 7:48 GMT-03:00 Fæ :

> The conclusion in response to Itzik's original question "how the
> current jury was elected and by who", is that the Wikimania jury is
> not elected, it was selected by a WMF employee against unpublished and
> presumably undefined criteria. Sadly, there are no plans or commitment
> by the WMF to change or improve this process to make it transparent or
> volunteer-centric.
>
> We also know that at least 5 out of 7 members of the jury have been
> employees. It may be more, but there has been no reply to this
> question.
>
> It is disturbing that asking questions of governance is being parodied
> as referring to jury members as "second class citizens". Nobody apart
> from a member of the jury has made such a ridiculous statement.
>
> Being an employee is not something that should be hidden or kept
> secret. The community should be free to ask questions about the
> balance of volunteers in an important jury with responsibility for how
> several hundred thousand dollars of donated funds gets spent in order
> to ensure a healthy balance of viewpoints. Having basic governance
> questions marginalized and parodied by the jury is a disappointing
> demonstration of how transparency and accountability will be handled
> for future Wikimania events.
>
> It is obvious that improvement is needed. It would be great to see
> commitment to change, rather than just defence of the status quo.
>
> Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

The conclusion in response to Itzik's original question "how the
current jury was elected and by who", is that the Wikimania jury is
not elected, it was selected by a WMF employee against unpublished and
presumably undefined criteria. Sadly, there are no plans or commitment
by the WMF to change or improve this process to make it transparent or
volunteer-centric.

We also know that at least 5 out of 7 members of the jury have been
employees. It may be more, but there has been no reply to this
question.

It is disturbing that asking questions of governance is being parodied
as referring to jury members as "second class citizens". Nobody apart
from a member of the jury has made such a ridiculous statement.

Being an employee is not something that should be hidden or kept
secret. The community should be free to ask questions about the
balance of volunteers in an important jury with responsibility for how
several hundred thousand dollars of donated funds gets spent in order
to ensure a healthy balance of viewpoints. Having basic governance
questions marginalized and parodied by the jury is a disappointing
demonstration of how transparency and accountability will be handled
for future Wikimania events.

It is obvious that improvement is needed. It would be great to see
commitment to change, rather than just defence of the status quo.

Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Richard Symonds]

With the greatest of respect, everyone, can we please remember that I'm
volunteering for this. I'm not paid to do it. It's out of my own time, the
sametime in which I edit Wikipedia. Who my employer is doesn't (and
shouldn't, in my opinion) enter into it. I don't have to volunteer for the
jury - I volunteer for another non-Wikimedia organisation who would love me
to spend 40+ hours with them instead. I volunteer for Wikimedia because I
have done so consistently for ten years - and I've only been employed by
them for three of those.

If you're worried that I will unfairly support the point of view of my
employer, I can assure you that that's not the case. The various jury
meetings are "in camera", so my employer doesn't get to find out what my
opinion on these things are, and they can't censure me for it. And I do
disagree with my employer on certain things - and my employer respects my
right to disagree with them. They're a pretty decent employer like that.

It feels a little bit like I'm being referred to as a "second class
volunteer". I know that isn't the case - but it feels that way, It feels a
little bit like my volunteer hours are worth less than everyone else's just
because of who pays my salary.

I do understand where you're coming from - but we don't judge other
people's ability to volunteer based on who pays their salaries. Nor do we
assume that I am a 'paid Wikipedia editor'... because I'm not! I'm a
volunteer...

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
Ellie,

I don't think "We have a system that works for jury selection" is
appropriate answer. I just asked how and by who, not but it strange for me
that this simple question is been unanswered.

Adding to my first email, now that I familiar more with the jury members -
from one hand I'm happy to see know we have a great and talented jury, but
from second hand, a little bit strange feeling that the jury members of the
major and the biggest community event within our movement are paid staff
from wmf/chapters. I see our staff as an integral part of the movement, but
still - we don't have any committee, especially when we are talking about
Wikimania, that staff are such a major part of the committee.

So yes, this just reinforces the fact that requires a bit more detailed
answer to the question - how they are selected.

Thank you, and thanks for all the people that volunteered for this year
jury.


Itzik



*Regards,Itzik Edri*
Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
+972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Ellie Young  wrote:

> We have a system that works for jury selection.   What I would STRONGLY
> like to encourage people in the community to do is seek out prospective
> people who would be good hosts and work with me on preparing a bid.   That
> is is our biggest need!  The CFP was posted earlier this month.
>
> Thank you all.
>
> Ellie
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>
> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to find
>> interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part of the
>> normal professional networks.
>>
>
> ​I might be wrong, but I didnt saw a mail with a call for volunteers to
> compose the jury like they do every year. ​(I do might had missed though so
> is better if Manuel or Ellie answers.)
>
> _
> *​Béria L​. de Rodríguez*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho.*
>
> 2014-09-29 11:13 GMT-03:00 Fæ :
>
>> On 29 September 2014 14:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
>> > I also would like to know the answer to Itzik question:
>> >
>> > " Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by
>> who?"
>> >> > Richard Symonds
>> >> > Stuart Prior
>> >> > Claudia Garad
>> >> > Esteban Zarate
>> >> > Daniel Bryant
>> >> > Finne Boonen
>> >> > Ellie Young
>>
>> Could someone point to a profile of the jury members? It is incredibly
>> hard to see who has been an employee of the WMF or Chapters unless you
>> happen to know people personally. However, I believe I am correct in
>> saying that only the minority of the jury has never been a paid
>> employee, which may not be the best thing for a conference aimed at
>> unpaid volunteers.
>>
>> It also makes me wonder how h

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Itzik - Wikimedia Israel]

Hey Manuel, Thank you for the response.

Transparency is always good - and this case really shows why.

While Ellie didn't respond and answered the question how people been
elected, and summarize her answer to: "We have a system that works for jury
selection." Your side and answer shows a whole different point of view.
The system seem far away from working correctly.

The fact that above the movement biggest *community* event there is a jury
who most his members are paid staff, who been selected by a WMF staffer.
This is not a decision by a committee, as the committee, as you describe is
only been asked for feedback - and that should be clear.

I hope next year process will be much more community and much more
transparent.


Itzik





*Regards,Itzik Edri*
Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
+972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Manuel Schneider <
manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

> Hi Itzik et al,
>
> I think I should weigh in, having been part of this selection. I am just
> currently travelling, so I don't follow the mailinglists at the moment.
>
>
> In the past the jury was selected by a moderator - we had Joseph Seddon,
> James Forrester and others sending out the invitations and reminders,
> collecting the applications, making a selection and announcing it. From
> that point on the jury took on the work.
>
> Now we have a Wikimania Committee which so far has not yet found its
> mode to work - it only took one decision so far, and that was
> re-defining the bidding schedule to give more time to organise - Ellie
> and me were looking to move forward with the coming bidding process. The
> only process we actually had was said reviewed and rescheduled timeline.
>
> As we were actually already approaching the approved deadlines without
> anyone acting up, I took initiative to put the new timeline together on
> Meta, send out and invitation and had all applications going to Ellie.
> I also sent out reminders before the deadline, so everyone should have
> been informed and was invited to participate.
>
> Ellie made a pre-selection which I reviewed and discussed with her,
> after some slight adjustments I brought the selection forward the
> Wikimania Committee, asking for feedback. We received one response from
> someone who wanted to be included which Ellie denied with good arguments
> as we need this person take responsibility in other areas (eg.
> strengthen the Committee).
>
> After all selected persons agreed to become the new Jury I sent out the
> announcement.
>
> I agree that we need a better process but I do not see that this year's
> process was any worse than before, in the opposite - there have been
> more people involved and able to voice their opinions.
>
> What we actually need is a Wikimania Committee which lives up to its
> expectations, actually have meetings (and minutes), which can define
> such processes. There have been several changes, also with Ellie coming
> in, and everything is done on a volunteer basis. Things are slow. What I
> do not accept are critisms on processes from people who didn't actually
> participate in the same, even though they were invited to do so.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Manuel
> --
> Manuel Schneider - Chief Information Officer
> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Lausanne, +41 (21) 340 66 22 - www.wikimedia.ch
>
> ___
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> wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Itzik - Wikimedia Israel]

Ellie,

I don't think "We have a system that works for jury selection" is
appropriate answer. I just asked how and by who, not but it strange for me
that this simple question is been unanswered.

Adding to my first email, now that I familiar more with the jury members -
from one hand I'm happy to see know we have a great and talented jury, but
from second hand, a little bit strange feeling that the jury members of the
major and the biggest community event within our movement are paid staff
from wmf/chapters. I see our staff as an integral part of the movement, but
still - we don't have any committee, especially when we are talking about
Wikimania, that staff are such a major part of the committee.

So yes, this just reinforces the fact that requires a bit more detailed
answer to the question - how they are selected.

Thank you, and thanks for all the people that volunteered for this year
jury.


Itzik



*Regards,Itzik Edri*
Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
+972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Ellie Young  wrote:

> We have a system that works for jury selection.   What I would STRONGLY
> like to encourage people in the community to do is seek out prospective
> people who would be good hosts and work with me on preparing a bid.   That
> is is our biggest need!  The CFP was posted earlier this month.
>
> Thank you all.
>
> Ellie
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>
> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to find
>> interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part of the
>> normal professional networks.
>>
>
> ​I might be wrong, but I didnt saw a mail with a call for volunteers to
> compose the jury like they do every year. ​(I do might had missed though so
> is better if Manuel or Ellie answers.)
>
> _
> *​Béria L​. de Rodríguez*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho.*
>
> 2014-09-29 11:13 GMT-03:00 Fæ :
>
>> On 29 September 2014 14:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
>> > I also would like to know the answer to Itzik question:
>> >
>> > " Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by
>> who?"
>> >> > Richard Symonds
>> >> > Stuart Prior
>> >> > Claudia Garad
>> >> > Esteban Zarate
>> >> > Daniel Bryant
>> >> > Finne Boonen
>> >> > Ellie Young
>>
>> Could someone point to a profile of the jury members? It is incredibly
>> hard to see who has been an employee of the WMF or Chapters unless you
>> happen to know people personally. However, I believe I am correct in
>> saying that only the minority of the jury has never been a paid
>> employee, which may not be the best thing for a conference aimed at
>> unpaid volunteers.
>>
>> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to
>> find interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part
>> of the normal professional networks.
>>
>> Fae
>> --
>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>
>> ___
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>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

On 30 September 2014 14:12, Lodewijk  wrote:
> I'm seriously having doubts why this is becoming such a drama for some
> people. There's a clear process (the Wikimania committee selects a jury,
> which selects a winning bid to be confirmed by the WMF) and they asked for
> volunteers, which they selected a jury from. Yay.

There is no process published. You may think this is clear, but there
are no records published and no criteria are set. As an example I have
been unable to identify who sits on the "Wikimania Steering Group" nor
find any published minutes for its meetings, despite this being a body
that bears responsibility for hundreds of thousands of dollars of
donated funds. Perhaps you do, and can link us to this information?

> Because lets face it, being on the jury is a boring task and little fun.
> Why are you (plural) trying so hard to make it even less fun...
>
> These are indeed assertions, and I agree to focus on responding to factual
> questions instead.

The questions in this thread (as raised by Itzik, Beria and myself)
were not answered, they appear to be sidestepped. It is unclear why,
so I put some assertions which you are free to counter with any facts
you are aware of, such as whether at least 5 out of 7 jury members
have been employees of the WMF or chapters.

> So again: Thanks for spending all this effort and time!

No problem. Wikimedia has a shared value of openness and transparency,
I believe it is worth spending a moment to pick up on where our
processes, such as for Wikimania governance, appear to be failing
these values. It may not be the fun you are advocating, but governance
is an important part of what we need to do.

Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Lodewijk]

I'm seriously having doubts why this is becoming such a drama for some
people. There's a clear process (the Wikimania committee selects a jury,
which selects a winning bid to be confirmed by the WMF) and they asked for
volunteers, which they selected a jury from. Yay.

Because lets face it, being on the jury is a boring task and little fun.
Why are you (plural) trying so hard to make it even less fun...

These are indeed assertions, and I agree to focus on responding to factual
questions instead.

So again: Thanks for spending all this effort and time!

Lodewijk

2014-09-30 14:35 GMT+02:00 Fæ :

> On 29 September 2014 15:53, Ellie Young  wrote:
> > We have a system that works for jury selection.   What I would STRONGLY
> like to encourage people in the community to do is seek out prospective
> people who would be good hosts and work with me on preparing a bid.   That
> is is our biggest need!  The CFP was posted earlier this month.
>
> Perhaps it would be easier to respond to assertions rather than direct
> questions, such as those posted yesterday by Béria. If anyone is aware
> of why these assertions are incorrect, perhaps they would be kind
> enough to link to where we can see how things work? Note, the
> Wikimania jury is not elected, it is selected by the "Wikimania
> Steering Committee".
>
> Assertion: The Steering Committee is not required to be transparent in
> its selection criteria.
> Assertion: The Steering Committee has no published process or policies.[1]
> Assertion: The Steering Committee is directed by WMF employees.[1]
> Assertion: At least 5/7 of Wikimania 2016 jury members have been
> employees of the WMF or Wikimedia Chapters.
>
> Links
> 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimania_jury
>
> P.S. "CFP" as used by Ellie, stands for Call for Participation.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

On 29 September 2014 15:53, Ellie Young  wrote:
> We have a system that works for jury selection.   What I would STRONGLY like 
> to encourage people in the community to do is seek out prospective people who 
> would be good hosts and work with me on preparing a bid.   That is is our 
> biggest need!  The CFP was posted earlier this month.

Perhaps it would be easier to respond to assertions rather than direct
questions, such as those posted yesterday by Béria. If anyone is aware
of why these assertions are incorrect, perhaps they would be kind
enough to link to where we can see how things work? Note, the
Wikimania jury is not elected, it is selected by the "Wikimania
Steering Committee".

Assertion: The Steering Committee is not required to be transparent in
its selection criteria.
Assertion: The Steering Committee has no published process or policies.[1]
Assertion: The Steering Committee is directed by WMF employees.[1]
Assertion: At least 5/7 of Wikimania 2016 jury members have been
employees of the WMF or Wikimedia Chapters.

Links
1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimania_jury

P.S. "CFP" as used by Ellie, stands for Call for Participation.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Ellie Young]

We have a system that works for jury selection.   What I would STRONGLY like to 
encourage people in the community to do is seek out prospective people who 
would be good hosts and work with me on preparing a bid.   That is is our 
biggest need!  The CFP was posted earlier this month.

Thank you all.

Ellie


On Sep 29, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Béria Lima  wrote:

>> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to find 
>> interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part of the 
>> normal professional networks.
> 
> ​I might be wrong, but I didnt saw a mail with a call for volunteers to 
> compose the jury like they do every year. ​(I do might had missed though so 
> is better if Manuel or Ellie answers.)
> 
> _
> ​Béria L​. de Rodríguez
> 
> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre 
> acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse 
> sonho.
> 
> 2014-09-29 11:13 GMT-03:00 Fæ :
>> On 29 September 2014 14:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
>> > I also would like to know the answer to Itzik question:
>> >
>> > " Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by who?"
>> >> > Richard Symonds
>> >> > Stuart Prior
>> >> > Claudia Garad
>> >> > Esteban Zarate
>> >> > Daniel Bryant
>> >> > Finne Boonen
>> >> > Ellie Young
>> 
>> Could someone point to a profile of the jury members? It is incredibly
>> hard to see who has been an employee of the WMF or Chapters unless you
>> happen to know people personally. However, I believe I am correct in
>> saying that only the minority of the jury has never been a paid
>> employee, which may not be the best thing for a conference aimed at
>> unpaid volunteers.
>> 
>> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to
>> find interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part
>> of the normal professional networks.
>> 
>> Fae
>> --
>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Béria Lima]

>
> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to find
> interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part of the
> normal professional networks.
>

​I might be wrong, but I didnt saw a mail with a call for volunteers to
compose the jury like they do every year. ​(I do might had missed though so
is better if Manuel or Ellie answers.)

_
*​Béria L​. de Rodríguez*

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho.*

2014-09-29 11:13 GMT-03:00 Fæ :

> On 29 September 2014 14:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
> > I also would like to know the answer to Itzik question:
> >
> > " Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by who?"
> >> > Richard Symonds
> >> > Stuart Prior
> >> > Claudia Garad
> >> > Esteban Zarate
> >> > Daniel Bryant
> >> > Finne Boonen
> >> > Ellie Young
>
> Could someone point to a profile of the jury members? It is incredibly
> hard to see who has been an employee of the WMF or Chapters unless you
> happen to know people personally. However, I believe I am correct in
> saying that only the minority of the jury has never been a paid
> employee, which may not be the best thing for a conference aimed at
> unpaid volunteers.
>
> It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to
> find interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part
> of the normal professional networks.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Fæ]

On 29 September 2014 14:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
> I also would like to know the answer to Itzik question:
>
> " Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by who?"
>> > Richard Symonds
>> > Stuart Prior
>> > Claudia Garad
>> > Esteban Zarate
>> > Daniel Bryant
>> > Finne Boonen
>> > Ellie Young

Could someone point to a profile of the jury members? It is incredibly
hard to see who has been an employee of the WMF or Chapters unless you
happen to know people personally. However, I believe I am correct in
saying that only the minority of the jury has never been a paid
employee, which may not be the best thing for a conference aimed at
unpaid volunteers.

It also makes me wonder how hard whoever "elected" the jury worked to
find interested unpaid volunteers as opposed to employees who are part
of the normal professional networks.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Béria Lima]

I also would like to know the answer to Itzik question:

" Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by who?"
>

_
*​Béria L​. de Rodríguez*

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho.*

2014-09-29 5:17 GMT-03:00 Itzik - Wikimedia Israel :

> Hey Manuel,
>
> Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by who?
>
> Correct me, but beside Richard Sydmonds - all the members of this year jury
> are new? there is not continuity in the jury?
>
> Itzik
>
>
>
> *Regards,Itzik Edri*
> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
> +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Manuel Schneider <
> manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
>
> > Dear Wikimedians,
> >
> > Wikimania is the global, annual conference of the Wikimedia movement,
> > organised by the Wikimedia community. Organizing team and location are
> > chosen by a jury in a public bidding process.
> >
> > Due to the growing requirements and complexity for this growing
> > conference the Wikimania Committee decided to revise the bidding
> > timeline to give more time to prepare the conference.
> >
> > Here it is:
> > * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bid_selection_timeline
> >
> > == Jury ==
> > The Wikimania Committee is pleased to announce the jury for Wikimania
> 2016:
> >
> > Richard Symonds
> > Stuart Prior
> > Claudia Garad
> > Esteban Zarate
> > Daniel Bryant
> > Finne Boonen
> > Ellie Young
> >
> > == Accepting Bids ==
> > We invite anyone in our community to  submit a proposal for Wikimania
> > 2016 on Meta Wiki:
> > * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids
> >
> > Please consult the timeline and Judging Criteria that are posted at:
> > * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids
> >
> > The deadline for bids is November 15, 23:59 UTC. You should setup a
> > bidding page and contact Ellie Young, WMF Conference Coordinator before
> > the deadline. She will help you prepare your bid. All bids which have
> > been confirmed until November 15 will be considered by the jury, others
> > will be dismissed.
> >
> > Subsequently there will be a two week period where the community can
> > comment and offer feedback on the proposal.
> >
> > In December your team must be available for conference calls with the
> > jury, after deliberations the host for Wikimania 2016 will be announced
> > by the end of 2014.
> >
> > On behalf of the Wikimania Committee with regards,
> >
> >
> > Manuel
> > --
> > Manuel Schneider - Chief Information Officer
> > Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > Lausanne, +41 (21) 340 66 22 - www.wikimedia.ch
> >
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> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Jury Announcement and Start of Bidding

[Itzik - Wikimedia Israel]

Hey Manuel,

Can you elaborate more on how the current jury was elected and by who?

Correct me, but beside Richard Sydmonds - all the members of this year jury
are new? there is not continuity in the jury?

Itzik



*Regards,Itzik Edri*
Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
+972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Manuel Schneider <
manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch> wrote:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> Wikimania is the global, annual conference of the Wikimedia movement,
> organised by the Wikimedia community. Organizing team and location are
> chosen by a jury in a public bidding process.
>
> Due to the growing requirements and complexity for this growing
> conference the Wikimania Committee decided to revise the bidding
> timeline to give more time to prepare the conference.
>
> Here it is:
> * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bid_selection_timeline
>
> == Jury ==
> The Wikimania Committee is pleased to announce the jury for Wikimania 2016:
>
> Richard Symonds
> Stuart Prior
> Claudia Garad
> Esteban Zarate
> Daniel Bryant
> Finne Boonen
> Ellie Young
>
> == Accepting Bids ==
> We invite anyone in our community to  submit a proposal for Wikimania
> 2016 on Meta Wiki:
> * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids
>
> Please consult the timeline and Judging Criteria that are posted at:
> * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids
>
> The deadline for bids is November 15, 23:59 UTC. You should setup a
> bidding page and contact Ellie Young, WMF Conference Coordinator before
> the deadline. She will help you prepare your bid. All bids which have
> been confirmed until November 15 will be considered by the jury, others
> will be dismissed.
>
> Subsequently there will be a two week period where the community can
> comment and offer feedback on the proposal.
>
> In December your team must be available for conference calls with the
> jury, after deliberations the host for Wikimania 2016 will be announced
> by the end of 2014.
>
> On behalf of the Wikimania Committee with regards,
>
>
> Manuel
> --
> Manuel Schneider - Chief Information Officer
> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Lausanne, +41 (21) 340 66 22 - www.wikimedia.ch
>
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