Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-17 Thread John Vandenberg 
On Oct 15, 2012 3:36 AM, "Federico Leva (Nemo)"  wrote:
>
> James Heilman, 14/10/2012 22:18:
>>
>> Thematic organizations have the same amount of authority over content on
>> Wikipedia as chapters. To spell this out clearly that means NONE. One
does
>> not put these sorts of details in a NGOs by laws [...]
>
>
> Actually, chapters do and very clearly, as a general rule.

Aye. This is done to ensure the chapter cant legally exert influence over
content or the community, but also to help shield the chapter from lawsuits
about content.

A medicine org needs to be very clear about this, as lawsuits for incorrect
medical information will be very expensive.

--
John Vandenberg
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Tomasz Ganicz 
2012/10/14 Federico Leva (Nemo) :
> Tomasz Ganicz, 14/10/2012 22:36:
>>
>> 2012/10/14 James Heilman:
>>
>>> Thematic organizations have the same amount of authority over content on
>>> Wikipedia as chapters. To spell this out clearly that means NONE. One
>>> does
>>> not put these sorts of details in a NGOs by laws however this will be
>>> clearly described in the policies once incorporated.
>>>
>>
>> Authority - none - but as the main goal of chapters is just to support
>> Wikimedia projects and communities as a whole rather without any
>> direct influence over project's content or rules of the projects,
>> thematic associations are clearly about the content of projects as
>> such. If Wikimedia Medicine activity had no any impact over medical
>> content of Wikipedias there would not have any sense to have such
>> organization :-)
>
>
> By the way that's also the point of the discussion on en.wiki mentioned by
> Bence.[1] (Again, I'm just taking this as an example.)
> This is exactly why thematic organisations need not a less clear, but a more
> clear, general rule/line of demarcation than chapters.
> Now that I think of it, you'll also need something about the visibility you
> can get on Wikimedia projects: sitenotices, notices of all sort, even just
> templates "this article/whatever was supported/provided/rubberstamped by
> entity X" tend to be subject to controversies. ChapCom/AffCom will know
> better and you can build on years of experience of chapters. ;-)
>

I guess there is a danger that in due time, someone may apply to
create "Wikimedia Alternative Medicine Association" or "Wikimedia
Traditional Chineese Medicine Association" if the Wikimedia Medicine
would decide to advocate for scientific POV in medical content in
Wikipedia...   And the medicine is not that controversial issue - but
take into consideration that there is already a proposal for:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT

so we can expect, just for the sake of keeping a balance of neutrality
of the Wikimedia  establishement of "Wikimedia Heterosexual
Association". Then someone may create some day  "Wikimedia Roman
Catholic Association" and then for the balance also "Wikimedia
Protestant Association"...



-- 
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo) 

Tomasz Ganicz, 14/10/2012 22:36:

2012/10/14 James Heilman:

Thematic organizations have the same amount of authority over content on
Wikipedia as chapters. To spell this out clearly that means NONE. One does
not put these sorts of details in a NGOs by laws however this will be
clearly described in the policies once incorporated.



Authority - none - but as the main goal of chapters is just to support
Wikimedia projects and communities as a whole rather without any
direct influence over project's content or rules of the projects,
thematic associations are clearly about the content of projects as
such. If Wikimedia Medicine activity had no any impact over medical
content of Wikipedias there would not have any sense to have such
organization :-)


By the way that's also the point of the discussion on en.wiki mentioned 
by Bence.[1] (Again, I'm just taking this as an example.)
This is exactly why thematic organisations need not a less clear, but a 
more clear, general rule/line of demarcation than chapters.
Now that I think of it, you'll also need something about the visibility 
you can get on Wikimedia projects: sitenotices, notices of all sort, 
even just templates "this article/whatever was 
supported/provided/rubberstamped by entity X" tend to be subject to 
controversies. ChapCom/AffCom will know better and you can build on 
years of experience of chapters. ;-)


Nemo

[1] Permanent link: 
 

Where doubts like «it will become a meta-arbitration committee for 
medical issues» are raised.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Tomasz Ganicz 
2012/10/14 James Heilman :
> Thematic organizations have the same amount of authority over content on
> Wikipedia as chapters. To spell this out clearly that means NONE. One does
> not put these sorts of details in a NGOs by laws however this will be
> clearly described in the policies once incorporated.
>

Authority - none - but as the main goal of chapters is just to support
Wikimedia projects and communities as a whole rather without any
direct influence over project's content or rules of the projects,
thematic associations are clearly about the content of projects as
such. If Wikimedia Medicine activity had no any impact over medical
content of Wikipedias there would not have any sense to have such
organization :-)

I think it is nothing wrong with it, I rather see great opportunity
here - for example in bringing more professionals to edit Wikipedias
and - maybe - be able to successfully apply for scientific grants from
relevant governmental and private sources...


-- 
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo) 

James Heilman, 14/10/2012 22:18:

Thematic organizations have the same amount of authority over content on
Wikipedia as chapters. To spell this out clearly that means NONE. One does
not put these sorts of details in a NGOs by laws [...]


Actually, chapters do and very clearly, as a general rule.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo) 

Bence Damokos, 14/10/2012 22:05:

See also the specific discussions on this question at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Medicine#Other
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Medicine#Liability
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Iridescent#arbitrary_break_2 (and
above)


Thank you. This point should surely be more developed, especially as 
they write things like «develops guidelines on best practices for [...] 
how the Wikipedia community ought to respond when it gets requests for 
medical advice».
However, I'm not that interested in this particular case and its edge 
discussions, I'd like the rule to be clarified in general, as it was 
with chapters since the beginning (or at least since the third chapter, 
WMIT, in 2005; I don't remember WMDE and WMFR original bylaws that well).


Nemo

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[Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread James Heilman 
Thematic organizations have the same amount of authority over content on
Wikipedia as chapters. To spell this out clearly that means NONE. One does
not put these sorts of details in a NGOs by laws however this will be
clearly described in the policies once incorporated.

-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Bence Damokos 
Hi Nemo,

Hopefully people involved in the project are subscribed here and will
react, as well and provide a clear definition of their aims.

There are two sides to this coin: the should and the will: a thematic
organisation should not have any control or power over the projects; it is
a different question whether the organisation itself adopts policies and
behaviors that could be seen as interfering into the internals of the
project or actively avoids such behavior.

See also the specific discussions on this question at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Medicine#Other
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Medicine#Liability
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Iridescent#arbitrary_break_2 (and
above)

Best regards,
Bence

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

> Thanks for the notice.
>
> Bence Damokos, 14/10/2012 19:07:
>
>  A bit of background:
>> Wikimedia thematic organisations are a new type of movement organisation,
>> that are similar to chapters in supporting the Wikimedia mission through
>> their activities in the real world, but instead of focusing on a given
>> country, they focus on a given topic or theme.
>> For more information please see:
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Wikimedia_Thematic_**Organizations
>>
>
> I know what thematic organisations are, I've read [[Wikimedia Medicine]]
> and skimmed its talk and bylaws, I know what they've been doing and what
> they want to do etc., but I'm still very confused.
> This is some sort of meta-WikiProject, so, in short: will it be written
> clearly somewhere that it won't have any control or power to establish
> guidelines over Wikimedia projects, and so on? (Just like chapters do.)
>
> Nemo
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo) 

Thanks for the notice.

Bence Damokos, 14/10/2012 19:07:

A bit of background:
Wikimedia thematic organisations are a new type of movement organisation,
that are similar to chapters in supporting the Wikimedia mission through
their activities in the real world, but instead of focusing on a given
country, they focus on a given topic or theme.
For more information please see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations


I know what thematic organisations are, I've read [[Wikimedia Medicine]] 
and skimmed its talk and bylaws, I know what they've been doing and what 
they want to do etc., but I'm still very confused.
This is some sort of meta-WikiProject, so, in short: will it be written 
clearly somewhere that it won't have any control or power to establish 
guidelines over Wikimedia projects, and so on? (Just like chapters do.)


Nemo

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[Wikimedia-l] Proposed Wikimedia Medicine Thematic Organisation

2012-10-14 Thread Bence Damokos 
Dear all,

I wanted to update you on behalf of the Affiliations Committee that we are
now considering the application of a proposed thematic organisation active
in the field of Medicine.

You can see the proposal at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Medicine

We would like to invite you to participate in the discussions, express your
interest to join the organisation and inform your home communities about
this proposal.

We will be monitoring the talk page at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Medicine to see if there is
any new information that might influence the recognition process.
If you have any related information you would like to share with the
committee privately, please write to .


A bit of background:
Wikimedia thematic organisations are a new type of movement organisation,
that are similar to chapters in supporting the Wikimedia mission through
their activities in the real world, but instead of focusing on a given
country, they focus on a given topic or theme.
For more information please see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Thematic_Organizations.

It is the plan of the Affiliations Committee to send out announcements of
new thematic organisation applications roughly in the middle of the
recognition process to allow the wider community to express any concerns
they might have and to be able to join the organisation when it is founded.
This is done in the hope that it will help new organisations reach critical
mass earlier and that the wider community is informed about emerging
entities in the movement.
For more information on AffCom, see:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee

Best regards,
Bence
(Chair, Affiliations Committee)
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