Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Call for bids to host Wikisource Advance Training 2019

[Tito Dutta]

Hello,
There are various opinion on this. On one hand, we have received feedback
not supporting community selection on village pump. On the other hand, we
have also got a several feedback and suggestions.
Thanks for adding your input on this. We have noted these. Additional
comment from other Wikimedians are welcome.


Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.


On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 at 08:10, Ashwin Baindur 
wrote:

> Pavan, thanks for your input. You do make a valid point. Selection by
> community where the community spirit is absent is likely to throw up
> unsuitable candidates because the selection is now based on group dynamics
> and we have all seen how wrong that can go.
>
> If CIS A2K is providing Advanced Wikisource workshop, it is good for
> asking help from prospective host communities to host the event, but not
> selection of suitable candidates. That is the prerogative and
> responsibility of CIS A2K. The easiest way for a program to go downhill is
> to choose less suitable candidates over more deserving ones. That process
> necessarily must have both subjective and objective inputs. The objective
> inputs can come from the demonstrated body of work, the subjective has to
> be based on long term interaction with editors and get the community inputs.
>
> Please note there is a difference between community inputs vs asking
> community to select.
>
> I urge that this aspect be rethought out and taken into consideration.
> Since our WikiSource community is essentially small, our resources limited
> and WikiSource is volunteer effort driven, it is imperative that the most
> suitable candidates be chosen.
>
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 8:52 PM pavan santhosh 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jayanta,
>>
>> I would like to appreciate you and team for planning and rolling out this
>> training. Along with that, I would also like to raise a major concern which
>> is unrelated to bidding but is more about program design.
>>
>> Meta page about this event says that "The selection [of participants]
>> will be done by each Indic Wikisource community.". Apart from all good
>> intentions behind this process, I would like to point out that in many
>> cases this is likely to create barriers for participation.
>>
>>- *Communities with community health issues: *For some communities
>>which are having community health issues, this will only result in further
>>damage.
>>- *Even for remaining healthy communities:* Even in those
>>communities, I would like to point out to you that there are still several
>>community members who never felt comfortable in commenting or posting
>>anything in their respective village pumps, in almost all languages.
>>
>> At large, this approach is going to be counter productive to community
>> members who by nature are not so social. And we can not exclude them. Also,
>> in some cases, this will give more power to power networks and structures
>> which can result more exclusion. At large this is structurally creating a
>> way for exclusion.
>>
>> Apart from my stand, I would like to acknowledge that I feel this process
>> is considered to set up to increase accountability in participants and
>> improve community involvement and agency. But, I believe we can find other
>> ways to solve issues with accountability. I can, with all due respect to
>> the people who thought out the process and people who suggested this,
>> strongly say this is not acceptable way to deal with accountability
>> question or for that matter even the question of improving community
>> collaboration.
>>
>> Best,
>> Pavan.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:23 PM Jayanta Nath 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Wikimedians,
>>>
>>> It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Wikisource Advance
>>> Training 2019 program organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 11
>>> October & 13 October 2019.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Advance Wikisource Training is a residential training program is planned
>>> for Indic Wikisource community (including English) members. Last year we
>>> focused on Wikipedia and conducted the Wiki Advanced Training at Ranch,
>>> India.  Also, Earlier Indic Wikisource Community Consultation has been
>>> conducted in 2018 at Kolkata.
>>>
>>> This year CIS-A2K is interested to collaborate with the community in
>>> hosting the event. Interested community members, please check the following
>>> link for proposal for hosting at their city:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Events/Wiki_Advanced_Training/2019/Bids
>>>
>>> It is requested to All Indic Wiki-librarians, kindly apply your request
>>> to join this event at your language wikisource village pump with separate
>>> section.  As per community decision, we will select the participants.
>>>
>>> Please consider sharing this process details with your community members.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have any questions, please let us know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> J

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Call for bids to host Wikisource Advance Training 2019

[Ashwin Baindur]

Pavan, thanks for your input. You do make a valid point. Selection by
community where the community spirit is absent is likely to throw up
unsuitable candidates because the selection is now based on group dynamics
and we have all seen how wrong that can go.

If CIS A2K is providing Advanced Wikisource workshop, it is good for asking
help from prospective host communities to host the event, but not selection
of suitable candidates. That is the prerogative and responsibility of CIS
A2K. The easiest way for a program to go downhill is to choose less
suitable candidates over more deserving ones. That process necessarily must
have both subjective and objective inputs. The objective inputs can come
from the demonstrated body of work, the subjective has to be based on long
term interaction with editors and get the community inputs.

Please note there is a difference between community inputs vs asking
community to select.

I urge that this aspect be rethought out and taken into consideration.
Since our WikiSource community is essentially small, our resources limited
and WikiSource is volunteer effort driven, it is imperative that the most
suitable candidates be chosen.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019, 8:52 PM pavan santhosh 
wrote:

> Hello Jayanta,
>
> I would like to appreciate you and team for planning and rolling out this
> training. Along with that, I would also like to raise a major concern which
> is unrelated to bidding but is more about program design.
>
> Meta page about this event says that "The selection [of participants] will
> be done by each Indic Wikisource community.". Apart from all good
> intentions behind this process, I would like to point out that in many
> cases this is likely to create barriers for participation.
>
>- *Communities with community health issues: *For some communities
>which are having community health issues, this will only result in further
>damage.
>- *Even for remaining healthy communities:* Even in those communities,
>I would like to point out to you that there are still several community
>members who never felt comfortable in commenting or posting anything in
>their respective village pumps, in almost all languages.
>
> At large, this approach is going to be counter productive to community
> members who by nature are not so social. And we can not exclude them. Also,
> in some cases, this will give more power to power networks and structures
> which can result more exclusion. At large this is structurally creating a
> way for exclusion.
>
> Apart from my stand, I would like to acknowledge that I feel this process
> is considered to set up to increase accountability in participants and
> improve community involvement and agency. But, I believe we can find other
> ways to solve issues with accountability. I can, with all due respect to
> the people who thought out the process and people who suggested this,
> strongly say this is not acceptable way to deal with accountability
> question or for that matter even the question of improving community
> collaboration.
>
> Best,
> Pavan.
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:23 PM Jayanta Nath 
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Wikimedians,
>>
>> It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Wikisource Advance Training
>> 2019 program organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 11 October & 13
>> October 2019.
>>
>>
>>
>> Advance Wikisource Training is a residential training program is planned
>> for Indic Wikisource community (including English) members. Last year we
>> focused on Wikipedia and conducted the Wiki Advanced Training at Ranch,
>> India.  Also, Earlier Indic Wikisource Community Consultation has been
>> conducted in 2018 at Kolkata.
>>
>> This year CIS-A2K is interested to collaborate with the community in
>> hosting the event. Interested community members, please check the following
>> link for proposal for hosting at their city:
>>
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Events/Wiki_Advanced_Training/2019/Bids
>>
>> It is requested to All Indic Wiki-librarians, kindly apply your request
>> to join this event at your language wikisource village pump with separate
>> section.  As per community decision, we will select the participants.
>>
>> Please consider sharing this process details with your community members.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have any questions, please let us know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jayanta Nath
>>
>> Wikisource Advisor
>>
>> CIS-A2K
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
>> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Call for bids to host Wikisource Advance Training 2019

[pavan santhosh]

Hello Jayanta,

I would like to appreciate you and team for planning and rolling out this
training. Along with that, I would also like to raise a major concern which
is unrelated to bidding but is more about program design.

Meta page about this event says that "The selection [of participants] will
be done by each Indic Wikisource community.". Apart from all good
intentions behind this process, I would like to point out that in many
cases this is likely to create barriers for participation.

   - *Communities with community health issues: *For some communities which
   are having community health issues, this will only result in further damage.
   - *Even for remaining healthy communities:* Even in those communities, I
   would like to point out to you that there are still several community
   members who never felt comfortable in commenting or posting anything in
   their respective village pumps, in almost all languages.

At large, this approach is going to be counter productive to community
members who by nature are not so social. And we can not exclude them. Also,
in some cases, this will give more power to power networks and structures
which can result more exclusion. At large this is structurally creating a
way for exclusion.

Apart from my stand, I would like to acknowledge that I feel this process
is considered to set up to increase accountability in participants and
improve community involvement and agency. But, I believe we can find other
ways to solve issues with accountability. I can, with all due respect to
the people who thought out the process and people who suggested this,
strongly say this is not acceptable way to deal with accountability
question or for that matter even the question of improving community
collaboration.

Best,
Pavan.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:23 PM Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Wikisource Advance Training
> 2019 program organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 11 October & 13
> October 2019.
>
>
>
> Advance Wikisource Training is a residential training program is planned
> for Indic Wikisource community (including English) members. Last year we
> focused on Wikipedia and conducted the Wiki Advanced Training at Ranch,
> India.  Also, Earlier Indic Wikisource Community Consultation has been
> conducted in 2018 at Kolkata.
>
> This year CIS-A2K is interested to collaborate with the community in
> hosting the event. Interested community members, please check the following
> link for proposal for hosting at their city:
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Events/Wiki_Advanced_Training/2019/Bids
>
> It is requested to All Indic Wiki-librarians, kindly apply your request
> to join this event at your language wikisource village pump with separate
> section.  As per community decision, we will select the participants.
>
> Please consider sharing this process details with your community members.
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, please let us know.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Jayanta Nath
>
> Wikisource Advisor
>
> CIS-A2K
>
> ___
> Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
> Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Call for bids to host Wikisource Advance Training 2019

[Jayanta Nath]

Hi Balaji,

Thanks for the queries about this events. I have a basic agenda of this
workshop below, although  We would like to fixed the agenda after need
assessment.

1. Digitization post processing.
2. Advance proofreading techniques.
3. Wikidata Linkage.
4.Library classification.
5. Finishing touch of Transclution.
6.Annotation of the text.
7. Transclusion Techniques of Encyclopedia, Dictionary, etc.
8. Proofread-thon.

Regarding participants section: For the Indic wikisource consultation
2018[1], we selected the participant as per their contribution to their
Wikisource. For Advance wikisource we had a option to chose the
participants from the community sectioning. Although there are no
application comes from the community including bids. So probably will
select the city and participants from the community. And obviously we can
taking the matter of your suggestion.

Regarding the trainer, We are talking to the experience leader from India
including User:Hrishikesh.  We will update it during course.

Regards,
Jayanta Nath
Wikisource Advisor

1)
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CIS-A2K/Events/Indic_Wikisource_Community_Consultation_2018


On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 5:28 PM balaji  wrote:

> Hello Tito,
>
> Thanks for the detailed reply.
>
> I have few feedback for the reply.
>
> //C. >>If there is an agenda for this training and format of the training,
> it would be good to know before bidding.
> Agenda is decided after the needs-assessment of the participants. If you
> have topics to suggest, please let us know. About format, let me answer in
> the last part, as it is similar to "hands-on proofreading".//
>
> If not a detailed schedule atleast some broad topics and formats need to
> be determined. Because people are dedicating two days from their busy life
> for this training. They should make a informed decision regarding weather
> the topics are already covered in previous training ? whether it is worth
> to apply for this training. Also only then we may know the difference
> between previous trainings and proposed advanced training.
>
> //D. >> What would be the criteria for selection of people to attend this
> training?
> Excellent question. Please feel to suggest what selection criteria should
> be (number of edits, number of proofread/validated pages, recent activity).
> I'll check and get back to this with more details.//
>
> A suggestion regarding this point. since this is advance training, to
> implement the learnings from the training many a times some privileges such
> as interface admin, admin is required. so atleast one person of a language
> of such privileges may be selected. or those who are selected be given such
> privileges temporarily by the community.
>
> //any proposal for the trainers?//
> The above point is not covered in the reply
>
> Thanks and regards,
> J. Balaji.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 2:13 PM Tito Dutta  wrote:
>
>> Hello Balaji,
>> Thanks for your questions, let me try to answer to these.
>> A. >>The title for the meeting in fixed as "Wiki Advanced Training".
>> Already minimum one training was conducted by CIS for many of the Indic
>> wikisource community. How the "Wiki Advanced Training" training is going to
>> be different from the earlier trainings.
>> -- Yes, the event name is Wiki Advanced Training, where on a project is
>> focused every year. This year the project we are focusing on is Wikisource,
>> next year we have not planned or decided yet.
>> So far Wikisource training (zonal) has been conducted/supported by
>> CIS-A2K in the last one year for (in alphabetical order) Assamese,
>> Gujarati, Marathi, Punjabi, Sanskrit community (in Bangalore), and Tamil
>> community. Those have been mostly first-level or basic training. But, as
>> "Advanced Wiki Training": name suggests, the training should be for
>> experienced Wiki-librarians with advanced topics (*what advanced topics,
>> answering in the next points)*
>> B. *>>Because in many of the advance trainings people without basics
>> also attend and pull down the average level of the trainings. (or they
>> won't benefit from such trainings).*
>> There should be basic eligibility criteria (see D). About participants,
>> as mentioned earlier, yes, it is expected that the participants have both
>> basic Wikisource knowledge and contribution experience. One thing comes
>> here, does this ensure participation from all communities? I hope you
>> understand this point. However, it is true that Advanced Training ideally
>> should not have very basic topics.
>> Also note, we have community-selection process where a community will
>> discuss on village pump and select Wiki-librarians to represent their
>> communities.
>>
>> C. >>If there is an agenda for this training and format of the training,
>> it would be good to know before bidding.
>> Agenda is decided after the needs-assessment of the participants. If you
>> have topics to suggest, please let us know. About format, let me answer in
>> the last part, as it is similar to

Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Postponing of Wikimedia movement strategy recommendations India salon

[Stalinjeet Brar]

Hello Ananth

No problem

On Fri, 6 Sep, 2019, 4:54 PM Ananth Subray,  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Greeting from CIS-A2K, We are very sorry to inform you all that we are
> postponing strategy salon
> 
> which was supposed to be conducted in Delhi on 14 and 15 September 2019.
>
> As the working groups are currently reconciling their draft
> recommendations and are going to harmonize after a few days and they will
> send out the final recommendations.  For this time constraint we have, it
> will be fruitful to give feedback on the final recommendations in upcoming
> days.  Postponing of
>
> Thanks and Regards,
>
> *ANANTH SUBRAY P V*
> Programme Associate
> Access to Knowledge program 
> The Centre for Internet & Society
>
> +91-9739811664
>
>
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> To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
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[Wikimediaindia-l] Postponing of Wikimedia movement strategy recommendations India salon

[Ananth Subray]

Hello all,

Greeting from CIS-A2K, We are very sorry to inform you all that we are
postponing strategy salon

which was supposed to be conducted in Delhi on 14 and 15 September 2019.

As the working groups are currently reconciling their draft recommendations
and are going to harmonize after a few days and they will send out the
final recommendations.  For this time constraint we have, it will be
fruitful to give feedback on the final recommendations in upcoming days.
Postponing of

Thanks and Regards,

*ANANTH SUBRAY P V*
Programme Associate
Access to Knowledge program 
The Centre for Internet & Society

+91-9739811664
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