Re: [Wikimediauk-l] I'm giving talk in Hamburg, Thursday 23rd August
Good luck Andy! On 14 August 2012 19:53, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: Do pop along if you're nearby: http://kultwerkwest.de/content/volunteering-wikimedia-why-work-free-evening-andy-mabbett-pigsonthewing -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Roger Bamkin Victuallers Ltd 01332 702993 0758 2020815 Google+:Victuallers Skype:Victuallers1 Flickr:Victuallers2 ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] I'm giving talk in Hamburg, Thursday 23rd August
Afraid it's a bit too far for me to cycle... but you're already making waves over there so I'm sure you'll do fine! Best of luck all the same. Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK On Aug 14, 2012 7:54 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: Do pop along if you're nearby: http://kultwerkwest.de/content/volunteering-wikimedia-why-work-free-evening-andy-mabbett-pigsonthewing -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mozilla teams up with Wikimedia UK for an Editathon - 18 August, London
Dear All, Just a reminder about the Mozilla-related Editahton we are having on Saturday *18 August, starting at 12PM at the Mozilla offices (London WC2N 4AZ). * * * http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Editathon * * Please feel free to come for a chance to update the Mozilla related information on Wikipedia, teach Mozillians about editing, and see their great office. Best wishes, Daria On 30 July 2012 09:45, Daria Cybulska daria.cybul...@wikimedia.org.ukwrote: Dear All, Mozilla UK has been supportive to Wikimedia UK and since they opened their Mozilla Spaces venue, they were keen that we use it needed for events. What we realised is that some of the articles relating to Mozilla, Firefox etc. in Wikipedia are not quite of the high standard they could be. And so we thought it would be a neighbourly thing to do to have a *Mozilla-related Editahton* - the aim would be to turn a list of about 15 Mozilla-related articles into content perhaps worthy of being a Good Article. The sprint will be on Saturday *18 August, starting at 12PM at the Mozilla offices (London WC2N 4AZ)*. Lunch and snacks will be provided, as will Mozilla people who can be consulted regarding good sources for information. Do come along and help our our free culture colleagues :-) For more info and to sign up please visit http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Editathon You can also email me with any questions. Many thanks, Daria -- Daria Cybulska - Events Organiser, Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0994 +44 7803 505 170 -- Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). -- Daria Cybulska - Events Organiser, Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 207 065 0994 +44 7803 505 170 -- Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
All, Over the past few months a number of individuals have asked for some, many, or all e-mails they have written to be removed from the archives. In general, our answer has been a holding 'no', but the mailing list's archives were nevertheless temporarily hidden from view. This was unsatisfactory in a number of ways, and we regret our failure to communicate to the list what was happening. On behalf of all of the UK Wikimedia mailing list's administrators, I would like to apologise, and explain. As a public mailing list, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on WikimediaUK-l or any other public Wikimedia-hosted list. Anyone who thinks otherwise is misleading themselves and those to whom they communicate these views. As has been noted before, the act of deletion is very much blowing up the stable after the horse has bolted: deleting e-mails from the WMF-hosted archives will at best flag them to certain individuals as containing information that is worth ferreting out from the many other archives that are not under our control in any way. Indeed, deleting e-mails is problematic in a number of ways: * it hides the institutional knowledge that the mailing list's archives contain; * it gives an utterly false sense of security to people concerned about their privacy; * it turns an open forum into one where users are unsure about what to expect in terms of repeatability; and * it is difficult and resource-expensive to achieve, and risks breaking the mailing list server for all of the hundreds of WMF-hosted lists. We will not agree to keeping the lists pseudo-private, or to the mass-deletion of content. We understand that this may concern some users, but we cannot wave a magic wand and fix what is broken. If some users find that this means that they are unable or unwilling to continue to contribute to this list, we are saddened, but would note that similar (and often far stronger) privacy issues are involved in other forms of online engagement, such as visiting most commercial websites, using instant messaging or editing Wikipedia. The sign-up page for this mailing list[0] is not as clear as it could be as to the general nature of a mailing list, hailing as it does from the days when this was expected prior knowledge of anyone stumbling over the page. We will adjust it to be more explicit about the instant public dissemination and (in practical terms) irrevocable, distributed, permanent public archiving of all messages sent to a public list; this e-mail is also part of that user education work. For the WikimediaUK-l volunteer mailing list admins, James F. [0] - https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l -- James D. Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal capacity) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
You guys sure take your time, but thank you for doing the right thing eventually! One question: you said you won't agree to the mass-deletion of content, does that mean you are deleting some content, just not a large amount? The arguments you make apply to small amounts of content just add much as they do large amounts. On Aug 15, 2012 9:25 PM, James Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com wrote: All, Over the past few months a number of individuals have asked for some, many, or all e-mails they have written to be removed from the archives. In general, our answer has been a holding 'no', but the mailing list's archives were nevertheless temporarily hidden from view. This was unsatisfactory in a number of ways, and we regret our failure to communicate to the list what was happening. On behalf of all of the UK Wikimedia mailing list's administrators, I would like to apologise, and explain. As a public mailing list, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on WikimediaUK-l or any other public Wikimedia-hosted list. Anyone who thinks otherwise is misleading themselves and those to whom they communicate these views. As has been noted before, the act of deletion is very much blowing up the stable after the horse has bolted: deleting e-mails from the WMF-hosted archives will at best flag them to certain individuals as containing information that is worth ferreting out from the many other archives that are not under our control in any way. Indeed, deleting e-mails is problematic in a number of ways: * it hides the institutional knowledge that the mailing list's archives contain; * it gives an utterly false sense of security to people concerned about their privacy; * it turns an open forum into one where users are unsure about what to expect in terms of repeatability; and * it is difficult and resource-expensive to achieve, and risks breaking the mailing list server for all of the hundreds of WMF-hosted lists. We will not agree to keeping the lists pseudo-private, or to the mass-deletion of content. We understand that this may concern some users, but we cannot wave a magic wand and fix what is broken. If some users find that this means that they are unable or unwilling to continue to contribute to this list, we are saddened, but would note that similar (and often far stronger) privacy issues are involved in other forms of online engagement, such as visiting most commercial websites, using instant messaging or editing Wikipedia. The sign-up page for this mailing list[0] is not as clear as it could be as to the general nature of a mailing list, hailing as it does from the days when this was expected prior knowledge of anyone stumbling over the page. We will adjust it to be more explicit about the instant public dissemination and (in practical terms) irrevocable, distributed, permanent public archiving of all messages sent to a public list; this e-mail is also part of that user education work. For the WikimediaUK-l volunteer mailing list admins, James F. [0] - https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l -- James D. Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal capacity) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
On 15 August 2012 21:38, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: One question: you said you won't agree to the mass-deletion of content, does that mean you are deleting some content, just not a large amount? The arguments you make apply to small amounts of content just add much as they do large amounts. Listmods don't actually have the power to delete messages - it's something a dev with shell access to the list server has to do. Mailman's archiving is sort of fragile and rubbish as well, so a slip-up can risk breaking all the hundreds of lists in ways that make the devs very unhappy - and making the devs unhappy is a hazardous occupation. So making the request had better be pretty serious stuff *and* actually effectively address whatever the problem is. If the problem is I've just outed myself, removing a post from the archive does *bugger-all* to suppress it in any meaningful way whatsoever. It'd be nice if it did, but it *actually doesn't*. I wouldn't say never ever on removal of messages from the archive, but it's on the list of things the listmods and WMF staff really, really aren't keen to do without a stupendously compelling reason. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
Thanks James. In light of this I'll unsubscribe from this list until such a time as the risks for new subscribers are made completely clear on joining. I will recommend the chapter considers it's stance on whether the list can be recommended as a service for members. Fae ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
On 15 August 2012 22:28, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks James. In light of this I'll unsubscribe from this list until such a time as the risks for new subscribers are made completely clear on joining. The current text, both on the page and in the joining message, is: This is a public mailing list for Wikimedians in the UK. It covers UK-specific subjects and events, including but not only work by the chapter, Wikimedia UK. As a public mailing list, any e-mail you send to this list will be immediately published by being cascaded to whomever has subscribed to the list, and a copy included in multiple public archives (both Wikimedia-controlled and third-party, not under any Wikimedia control) for all time. There is no real possibility of removing such information from the Internet once it is sent, so please be cautious in what you say about yourself and others if you have any privacy concerns. Does this pretty much cover it? Any public list for UK Wikimedians would exist under the same constraints (i.e., if you say something on the Internet then you've said it on the Internet) and a private list would be precisely secure as the most malicious (or, in their own lights, freedom-fighting) person who'd joined it. If you have ideas on practical measures to run a list that doesn't suffer the general security problem of cut'n'paste fairies, this would be useful knowledge. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
It is disingenuous to suggest that, in posting to a *public* mailing list, the risk that your post will be public is not clear. I think it's a shame that a trustee doesn't wish to be subscribe to the mailing list that is the primary method of communication between WMUK and the UK Wikimedia community and of discussion amongst the UK community, and I honestly think that such a refusal to engage with the community would hamper one's effectiveness as a trustee. I applaud and thank the list admins for finally restoring this list to public status - we shouldn't be seen to be discussing things behind closed doors, not least because it goes against the very principles of openness on which the Wikimedia projects and Wikimedia UK were founded, and there was a consensus to do so some considerable time ago. Harry Mitchell http://enwp.org/User:HJ Phone: 024 7698 0977 Skype: harry_j_mitchell From: Fae fae...@gmail.com To: James Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com Cc: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2012, 22:28 Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives Thanks James. In light of this I'll unsubscribe from this list until such a time as the risks for new subscribers are made completely clear on joining. I will recommend the chapter considers it's stance on whether the list can be recommended as a service for members. Fae ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Upcoming training workshops - London
Hi all, I posted a month or two ago asking for volunteers to help with some training workshops I was running at Birkbeck. Thanks again to the four who replied - the day went well and we got really positive feedback from the attendees. I've three more arranged in London, and one in Oxford: * 3rd September (British Library) * 24th September (British Library) * 8th October (University of Oxford) * 12th October (British Library) The three BL events are a mixture of those being advertised to AHRC researchers and postgraduates (see http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/News-and-Events/Events/Pages/Wikipedia-courses-for-AHRC-awardholders.aspx), with another intended for readers (ie users) at the British Library. The Oxford event is run by the university for its own postgraduates. They'll all be afternoon sessions running for three or four hours; a general introduction to Wikipedia and QA session, followed by a short practical session with the sandbox, a coffee break, and then time to do some live editing with experienced users around to lend a hand. If you'd be interested in helping train people at one or more of these sessions, please get in touch! They're fairly informal events, really quite enjoyable, and the more Wikipedians we have the better... -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
Thank you James, and the other list admins. -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Status of this list and its archives
On 15/08/2012 22:53, HJ Mitchell wrote: It is disingenuous to suggest that, in posting to a *public* mailing list, the risk that your post will be public is not clear. I think it's a shame that a trustee doesn't wish to be subscribe to the mailing list that is the primary method of communication between WMUK and the UK Wikimedia community and of discussion amongst the UK community, and I honestly think that such a refusal to engage with the community would hamper one's effectiveness as a trustee. I applaud and thank the list admins for finally restoring this list to public status - we shouldn't be seen to be discussing things behind closed doors, not least because it goes against the very principles of openness on which the Wikimedia projects and Wikimedia UK were founded, and there was a consensus to do so some considerable time ago. I'll like second the above statement. KTC -- Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
