[Wikimediauk-l] My interview, on BBC Radio 5 Live's 'Outriders'
My 12-minute interview, about Wikipedia, for BBC Radio 5 Live's 'Outriders', is now on-line: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/pods -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
This is not a high priority but if anyone is interested in popping along I have an invitation; From Kings College: I am organising an event for the afternoon of 3rd December at King’s College on the Strand. This afternoon meeting/round-table will look at the potential of linked open data in archives, libraries and museums including linking with Wikipedia and cultural content more broadly. After a light lunch from 12-1, we will have a roundup of relevant projects, including our own Step change, then in the second half a ‘where do we go from here’ type session. We are envisaging around 30 people and will finish around 4pm. Let me know, Jon -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
No but they seem nice people. IF you can spare the time I'll send you the details. On 20 November 2012 09:21, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: I might be able to make it - do you know what sort of thing they envisage by linking with Wikipedia? - Andrew. On Tuesday, 20 November 2012, Jon Davies wrote: This is not a high priority but if anyone is interested in popping along I have an invitation; From Kings College: I am organising an event for the afternoon of 3rd December at King’s College on the Strand. This afternoon meeting/round-table will look at the potential of linked open data in archives, libraries and museums including linking with Wikipedia and cultural content more broadly. After a light lunch from 12-1, we will have a roundup of relevant projects, including our own Step change, then in the second half a ‘where do we go from here’ type session. We are envisaging around 30 people and will finish around 4pm. Let me know, Jon -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
On 20/11/12 09:30, Jon Davies wrote: No but they seem nice people. IF you can spare the time I'll send you the details. Yes, but they put the definite article before Strand :-) Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
On 20 November 2012 09:17, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: if anyone is interested in popping along I have an invitation; If Andrew G. can't make it, I could. Will the chapter reimburse my expenses (estimate about £30 for rail travel)? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
Morning - All members are voting members...unless I've missed something? Yes, the credit checking thing occurred to me but seemed a little excessive - plus it would complicate our obligations in terms of possible data protection (if it was part managed by staff) or I suspect would be really expensive. I suppose what we need to demonstrate is that, say 'Joe Bloggs' is a) Is who he says he is (proof of photo ID) and b) Lives at the address he says he does (utility bill? Electoral roll?). If people pay from a verified paypal account the need to check is superseded, because Paypal requires all this information. Finally, not sure whether we are strictly legally obliged or not is the point - even if we aren't, 'should we put some safeguard against entryism/vote fraud in place' is the premise on which I've been asked to raise the issue. Kat On 19 November 2012 17:15, Harry Burt harryab...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Katherine Bavage katherine.bav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Hey Harry, I'm not sure if ii) *is* easier. Compare the work of verifying members before every AGM and EGM or merely at the point of joining. We don't really have formal check on membership at the moment - no applicant is asked to prove their residency at their address of that they have provided their real name. It depends, I suppose, on what kind of check you have in mind. I was imagining show us proof of identity (with a large burden on the information supplier) rather than a cheap automated check. By cheap I also mean monetarily: it's probably not a good use of WMUK money verifying the addresses of non-voting members if WMUK is not legally obliged to. Harry (User:Jarry1250) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
Will let you know in due course. Thanks for the offer. On 20 November 2012 10:13, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 20 November 2012 09:17, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: if anyone is interested in popping along I have an invitation; If Andrew G. can't make it, I could. Will the chapter reimburse my expenses (estimate about £30 for rail travel)? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
That would be consistent with common usage... :) On Nov 20, 2012 9:33 AM, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: On 20/11/12 09:30, Jon Davies wrote: No but they seem nice people. IF you can spare the time I'll send you the details. Yes, but they put the definite article before Strand :-) Gordo __**_ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lhttp://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] My interview, on BBC Radio 5 Live's 'Outriders'
Really excellent although the scots guy in the studio sounded like a robot on mogadon! On 20 November 2012 08:41, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: My 12-minute interview, about Wikipedia, for BBC Radio 5 Live's 'Outriders', is now on-line: http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/pods -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
Are you sure PayPal require that?? I have a verified PayPal account and it only involved confirming my bank account via a £1 payment... No Id needed :-) Tom Morton On 20 Nov 2012, at 10:37, Katherine Bavage katherine.bav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Morning - All members are voting members...unless I've missed something? Yes, the credit checking thing occurred to me but seemed a little excessive - plus it would complicate our obligations in terms of possible data protection (if it was part managed by staff) or I suspect would be really expensive. I suppose what we need to demonstrate is that, say 'Joe Bloggs' is a) Is who he says he is (proof of photo ID) and b) Lives at the address he says he does (utility bill? Electoral roll?). If people pay from a verified paypal account the need to check is superseded, because Paypal requires all this information. Finally, not sure whether we are strictly legally obliged or not is the point - even if we aren't, 'should we put some safeguard against entryism/vote fraud in place' is the premise on which I've been asked to raise the issue. Kat On 19 November 2012 17:15, Harry Burt harryab...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Katherine Bavage katherine.bav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Hey Harry, I'm not sure if ii) *is* easier. Compare the work of verifying members before every AGM and EGM or merely at the point of joining. We don't really have formal check on membership at the moment - no applicant is asked to prove their residency at their address of that they have provided their real name. It depends, I suppose, on what kind of check you have in mind. I was imagining show us proof of identity (with a large burden on the information supplier) rather than a cheap automated check. By cheap I also mean monetarily: it's probably not a good use of WMUK money verifying the addresses of non-voting members if WMUK is not legally obliged to. Harry (User:Jarry1250) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20/11/12 11:42, Thomas Morton wrote: I suppose what we need to demonstrate is that, say 'Joe Bloggs' is a) Is who he says he is (proof of photo ID) and b) Lives at the address he says he does (utility bill? Electoral roll?). If people pay from a verified paypal account the need to check is superseded, because Paypal requires all this information. This is all a bit exclusive. Widening membership should not be down PayPal or electoral roll or having a bank account (since this would exclude people aged 17 years old and under). Finally, not sure whether we are strictly legally obliged or not is the point - even if we aren't, 'should we put some safeguard against entryism/vote fraud in place' is the premise on which I've been asked to raise the issue. Well, yes, but living in a world where many editors hide their identity Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20 November 2012 12:30, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: This is all a bit exclusive. Widening membership should not be down PayPal or electoral roll or having a bank account (since this would exclude people aged 17 years old and under). You can have a bank account when under 18. I think my bank let me get my own account (rather than my mum having an account in my name) when I was 13. Obviously, you can't get any kind of credit facility (which includes standard debit cards), but that's not an issue for us. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Anyone interested?
Andrew G has agreed - he is local so will go with him. Thanks for the offer. On 20 November 2012 10:13, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 20 November 2012 09:17, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: if anyone is interested in popping along I have an invitation; If Andrew G. can't make it, I could. Will the chapter reimburse my expenses (estimate about £30 for rail travel)? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
Sorry to chime in from outside, but why is checking the address so important? How many people in the UK do not have some form of government ID (passport, drivers licence, etc., I know the UK is not big on ID cards)? By the way, Couchsurfing has a friendly way of verifying addresses: they send you a postcard (that can be recycled as stickers) with a unique code that you need to type in on the website. Best regards, Bence On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 20 November 2012 12:30, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: This is all a bit exclusive. Widening membership should not be down PayPal or electoral roll or having a bank account (since this would exclude people aged 17 years old and under). You can have a bank account when under 18. I think my bank let me get my own account (rather than my mum having an account in my name) when I was 13. Obviously, you can't get any kind of credit facility (which includes standard debit cards), but that's not an issue for us. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Damokos Bence ügyvezető alelnök, Wikimédia Magyarország http://wikimedia.hu http://wiki.media.hu/ ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20/11/12 12:35, Thomas Dalton wrote: On 20 November 2012 12:30, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: This is all a bit exclusive. Widening membership should not be down PayPal or electoral roll or having a bank account (since this would exclude people aged 17 years old and under). You can have a bank account when under 18. I think my bank let me get my own account (rather than my mum having an account in my name) when I was 13. Obviously, you can't get any kind of credit facility (which includes standard debit cards), but that's not an issue for us. _ Aha. Seems there are accounts for the 11 to 15 age range (Barclays, Santander, etc) But I think membership should be open to all. id checks will exclude some. Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20 November 2012 13:05, Gordon Joly gordon.j...@pobox.com wrote: Aha. Seems there are accounts for the 11 to 15 age range (Barclays, Santander, etc) But I think membership should be open to all. id checks will exclude some. As long as it is only a small number of members that can't be checked by whatever standard system we come up with, then they can be dealt with as special cases. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: On 20 November 2012 10:37, Katherine Bavage katherine.bav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Morning - All members are voting members...unless I've missed something? I think Harry might have been distinguishing between members that do vote and members that don't, rather than members than *can* vote. Just like insurance companies only check your details when you try to make a claim, we could just check when people try to vote. Indeed, although I'm not sure exactly what percentage of members choose to vote, and hence the scale of the efficiency. Harry -- Harry Burt (User:Jarry1250) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
We can easily come up with all sorts of ways to make membership a massive pain in the arse. But what was the threat model again? And what's accepted practice - how do other UK charities deal with said threat model? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
Bottom line for me is what is not working at the moment that we need to change? Our hope is to greatly grow our membership. Obviously there are risks but are they really huge? The more members we have the less the risk of cabals taking over. On 20 November 2012 13:34, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: We can easily come up with all sorts of ways to make membership a massive pain in the arse. But what was the threat model again? And what's accepted practice - how do other UK charities deal with said threat model? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990. Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20/11/12 13:34, David Gerard wrote: We can easily come up with all sorts of ways to make membership a massive pain in the arse. But what was the threat model again? And what's accepted practice - how do other UK charities deal with said threat model? Sounds like something for the Audit Committee. Gordo ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
Katharine has already explained the threat: somebody registers multiply under different identities, or banned people register under false identities, and then uses votes to push a motion at and AGM or EGM or to push candidates onto the board of trustees. We want people to become active members while keeping personal details private, and admit membership applications from people who are young, not on the electoral register etc.. We also want to run elections and votes in a way that are protected against this sort of threat, and to comply with the company law Katharine has cited. This is contradictory, so Wikimedia UK needs to decide what's more important, and if there are ways around like giving people a meaningful membership which isn't a membership in the terms of company law and so isn't subject to those regulations. On 20 November 2012 13:34, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: We can easily come up with all sorts of ways to make membership a massive pain in the arse. But what was the threat model again? And what's accepted practice - how do other UK charities deal with said threat model? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Dr Martin L Poulter Wikipedia contributor http://enwp.org/User:MartinPoulter Associate, Wikimedia UK http://uk.wikimedia.org/ Musician http://soundcloud.com/martin-poulter http://myspace.com/comapilot Person http://infobomb.org/ ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20 November 2012 13:53, Martin Poulter infob...@gmail.com wrote: Katharine has already explained the threat: somebody registers multiply under different identities, or banned people register under false identities, and then uses votes to push a motion at and AGM or EGM or to push candidates onto the board of trustees. The case of such a thing that springs to mind is one you should certainly know: NIMH vs Scientology, in the sixties. The NIHM prevailed because the court ruled the board had, per the rules, the absolute right to exclude anyone they wanted for any reason or none. (That the attempt was clearly a takeover probably helped.) Has there been case law since? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
To reply to Harry's points: (i) Should we enforce more checks on prospective members? Yes, although enforce is the wrong word. Perhaps check that they are real people who will support our objects and haven't given a fake address would be a better way of putting it. We have a duty to ensure that the members of the charity are actual people, and not, for example, someone's cats who have a vote in order to swing elections one way or another. (ii) Should we enforce more checks on members before we let them vote at AGMs, whether in person or by proxy? No. Once a member, it's too late - you have the right to vote (even if you're a cat, I suspect). Checks really need to be done before members are approved. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 19 November 2012 15:19, Harry Burt harryab...@gmail.com wrote: Aren't there really two points here: (i) Should we enforce more checks on prospective members? (ii) Should we enforce more checks on members before we let them vote at AGMs, whether in person or by proxy? I think the legal question is a good one. Are charities required to do neither/either/both? Legal issues aside, surely (ii) but not (i) is the easiest by quite a margin. Harry -- Harry Burt (User:Jarry1250) On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Katherine Bavage katherine.bav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Hi All, At the board meeting on Saturday a valid point was made that currently the verification process for membership applications doesn't really prove a barrier to fraudulent or duplicate applications. I'd like to look at ways of improving this, so as we aim to expand our membership numbers we're also making sure fairness is enshrined in a checking process that means people can only have one vote. If people pay their membership fee with Paypal, this isn't so much of a problem, as having a verified paypal account has already required this person to link their identity to their postal address - but we want to be as open as possible and so there will be people who give us 'a form and a fiver'. What checking processes do we think would be acceptable without being invasive/onerous? At a basic level, we should be confirming that the applicant is the named person at the address given. Please flag up concerns, suggestions for services or resources we can use, and so on. It may be that we can't completely eliminate the risk of fraudulent applications, but we can make it more difficult and provide a measure or reassurance that no individual has more power than any other by being able to vote twice etc . Thanks! -- *Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Fwd: ORG wins award, applies to intervene in Golden Eye case
FYI Dear Jon Davies, here's your newsletter from the frontline of digital rights: defending and promoting citizens' rights in the digital age It is a great time for the Open Rights Group. Last night at Liberty’s annual Human Rights Awards we won the *Human Rights Campaigner of the Year* *Award*http://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2012/org-wins-human-rights-campaigner-of-the-year-with-38-degrees, jointly with 38 Degrees. The Award was given for our work campaigning against the Snooper's Charter, thanks to your work emailing and visiting MPs. This month we are organising a big campaigning event to co-ordinate the campaign with other civil liberties groups and many CDB events across the country. We have also applied to intervene in the Golden Eye case, with more details on this first step towards defending digital rights on the courts below. With all of this going on I encourage you to join ORGhttp://www.openrightsgroup.org/join/to allow us to keep doing this great work and fight for your rights. *ORG applies to intervene in Goldeneye case* We have applied for permission to intervene in the appeal of the Golden Eye International v Telefonica UK decision and we need your help to take this important case on.http://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2012/org-goldeneye-intervene Golden Eye are trying to compel O2 to provide personal information about their users so that they can then be spammed with speculative claims of infringement –and perhaps grab a quick settlement fee. Golden Eye are not the copyright owners, but rather hold an ‘enforcement-only’ license with no specific mandate from the 12 other porn studios who they act for. We are intervening on behalf of those consumers whose personal data would be released. If the decision goes our way it will be a blow to the legality of speculative invoicing schemes. We would like to ask for your donations nowhttp://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2012/org-goldeneye-interveneto help us to raise the £5000 that will pay for various court fees and the top notch legal team working on our behalf on this case. *Neil Gaiman on digital rights* We thought it better to shut up about why you should join ORG at this point, and just let Neil Gaiman speak for himself on why he supports ORG.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOFDHEYvpwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOFDHEYvpwU There are more videos coming in the next few weeks as ORG supporters like Ben Hammersley, Cory Doctorow, Charles Stross, Hugh Hancock and Becky Hogge talk about their personal conviction in digital rights. *Stop the Snoopers’ Charter event* * *We're running a big campaigning eventhttp://stopsnooperscharter-eorg.eventbrite.com/#on the Snoopers' Charter, jointly hosted with Index on Censorship. We're delighted that Cory Doctorow and a host of the best privacy experts will be there sharing their insights and opinions. Tickets are free! You can get them at our Eventbrite pagehttp://stopsnooperscharter.eventbrite.com/. The event will run from 2pm until 6pm on Saturday 24th November at the Free Word Centre, 60 Farringdon Road, EC1R 3GA. *ORGZine updates* Alongside our main website ORG run a magazine for discussion and debate on digital rights issues. November was marked by some big events happening in the United States. Hurricane Sandy hit New York, amongst other cities, and Wendy Grossman analysed the digital dividehttp://zine.openrightsgroup.org/features/2012/survival-instinctsthe super storm provoked in the City. After the US presidential election week, ORGZine published Billion-Dollar Spreehttp://zine.openrightsgroup.org/features/2012/the-billion-dollar-spree: arguing that anonymous trolling on the Internet should not be the concern, when Super Pacs still can’t be identified. Moving to France, Stephanie de Vanssay tells us in a feature interviewhttp://zine.openrightsgroup.org/features/2012/feature-interview:-stephanie-de-vanssay-on-social-media-and-schoolswhy she is campaigning to have social media embedded within the French education system. New writers and discussion are always welcome! If you have an idea for a topic or want to write, get in touch with our editor, on orgzine.edi...@openrightsgroup.org You're not alone. Without your donations, we would not be able to continue our campaigns. That's why we would like to *ask you* to support us against government and corporate actions limiting your digital rights. Please join today!http://www.openrightsgroup.org/join Find us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/openrightsgroup Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/openrightsgroup *News in Brief *We won Human Rights Campaigner of the Year, at the Liberty Awardshttp://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2012/org-wins-human-rights-campaigner-of-the-year-with-38-degrees ,http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/media/press/2012/liberty-rewards-human-rights-heroes-in-annual-awards-cer.phpjointly with 38 Degrees for our work on the Snoopers' Charter! *Thank you for
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
How about doing it in a nice way? Sending a thank you LETTER (sorry trees) with a badge or sticker in and an 'if not received return to...label. AT least that would be some sort of verification. Perhaps a freepost confirmation postcard therein as a belt and braces? To be frank going from 320 to 260 members recently seems that our problem is quite the reverse. On 20 November 2012 14:27, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: To reply to Harry's points: (i) Should we enforce more checks on prospective members? Yes, although enforce is the wrong word. Perhaps check that they are real people who will support our objects and haven't given a fake address would be a better way of putting it. We have a duty to ensure that the members of the charity are actual people, and not, for example, someone's cats who have a vote in order to swing elections one way or another. (ii) Should we enforce more checks on members before we let them vote at AGMs, whether in person or by proxy? No. Once a member, it's too late - you have the right to vote (even if you're a cat, I suspect). Checks really need to be done before members are approved. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 19 November 2012 15:19, Harry Burt harryab...@gmail.com wrote: Aren't there really two points here: (i) Should we enforce more checks on prospective members? (ii) Should we enforce more checks on members before we let them vote at AGMs, whether in person or by proxy? I think the legal question is a good one. Are charities required to do neither/either/both? Legal issues aside, surely (ii) but not (i) is the easiest by quite a margin. Harry -- Harry Burt (User:Jarry1250) On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Katherine Bavage katherine.bav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Hi All, At the board meeting on Saturday a valid point was made that currently the verification process for membership applications doesn't really prove a barrier to fraudulent or duplicate applications. I'd like to look at ways of improving this, so as we aim to expand our membership numbers we're also making sure fairness is enshrined in a checking process that means people can only have one vote. If people pay their membership fee with Paypal, this isn't so much of a problem, as having a verified paypal account has already required this person to link their identity to their postal address - but we want to be as open as possible and so there will be people who give us 'a form and a fiver'. What checking processes do we think would be acceptable without being invasive/onerous? At a basic level, we should be confirming that the applicant is the named person at the address given. Please flag up concerns, suggestions for services or resources we can use, and so on. It may be that we can't completely eliminate the risk of fraudulent applications, but we can make it more difficult and provide a measure or reassurance that no individual has more power than any other by being able to vote twice etc . Thanks! -- *Katherine Bavage * *Fundraising Manager * *Wikimedia UK* +44 20 7065 0949 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*. Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169 tweet @jonatreesdavies Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20 November 2012 15:03, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: How about doing it in a nice way? Sending a thank you LETTER (sorry trees) with a badge or sticker in and an 'if not received return to...label. AT least that would be some sort of verification. Perhaps a freepost confirmation postcard therein as a belt and braces? That's easy and sensible. To be frank going from 320 to 260 members recently seems that our problem is quite the reverse. Well, yes. But with a suitable screening process I'm sure we can reduce that number even further. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Cheap laptops for charities
As tweeted by @ChrisLabrey Hi. We've 200 surplus laptops from the Olympics. Acer Travelmate 8481 i3 320GB 2GB RAM. £199.99. Min order 5 units. UK Edu/Char only pls RT -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On Nov 20, 2012 12:58 PM, Damokos Bence damokos.be...@wikimedia.hu wrote: Sorry to chime in from outside, but why is checking the address so important? How many people in the UK do not have some form of government ID (passport, drivers licence, etc., I know the UK is not big on ID cards)? That's an impressive understatement! ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
Just in case anyone's wondering - the Board didn't discuss this issue at much length at the weekend, but the issue is certainly one to think about, and we asked Katherine to look into the subject. I haven't yet mentioned my personal views based on my own experience. so here they are; Personally I think the most sensible safeguards against 'entryism' is having a large and well-involved membership. Another step some organisations take is to say that someone has to be a member for a certain length of time before conferring voting rights on them, though the only time I've seen this is enacted is when there have been serious problems with people joining to push particular agendas. (Also worth nothing that this in our case would need an amendment to the Articles.) I'd also note that I've worked for several membership organisations and am a member of many more - none that I know of take any steps to verify memberships, even where someone is formally required to approve each member before admitting them. (And under what circumstances would we refuse membership? Not being on the electoral role doesn't mean someone doesn't exist...) If we did do anything like this we would have to carefully consider whether the benefit in terms of preventing a potential, if somewhat hypothetical, democratic problem was actually bigger than any likely cost in terms of making it more difficult to join. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Verifying membership applications - Suggestions and comments
On 20 November 2012 20:12, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com wrote: I'd also note that I've worked for several membership organisations and am a member of many more - none that I know of take any steps to verify memberships, even where someone is formally required to approve each member before admitting them. (And under what circumstances would we refuse membership? Not being on the electoral role doesn't mean someone doesn't exist...) Well, yes. Standard practice is actually not bothering. If we did do anything like this we would have to carefully consider whether the benefit in terms of preventing a potential, if somewhat hypothetical, democratic problem was actually bigger than any likely cost in terms of making it more difficult to join. To be fair, it is literally true that we have seriously dedicated gibbering nutters who are out to fuck us up any way they possibly can; much more so than the run-of-the-mill small charity our size. But you're right that the very first thing to try is a larger, broader and more involved membership. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Wonga (payday loans) and alleged CoI edits
http://m.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/20/mp-demands-apology-tweets-wonga?cat=businesstype=article -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wonga (payday loans) and alleged CoI edits
On 20 November 2012 23:15, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: http://m.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/20/mp-demands-apology-tweets-wonga?cat=businesstype=article Yeah, she's my MP. Pretty good value. Still haven't asked her for a CC-licensed pic for the article on her ... - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wonga (payday loans) and alleged CoI edits
On Nov 20, 2012 11:17 PM, David Gerard.jm dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 20 November 2012 23:15, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: http://m.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/20/mp-demands-apology-tweets-wonga?cat=businesstype=article Yeah, she's my MP. Pretty good value. Still haven't asked her for a CC-licensed pic for the article on her ... And a recording of her voice, when you do, please. -- Andy Mabbett ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wonga (payday loans) and alleged CoI edits
On 20 November 2012 23:22, Andy Mabbett pigsotw...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 20, 2012 11:17 PM, David Gerard.jm dger...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, she's my MP. Pretty good value. Still haven't asked her for a CC-licensed pic for the article on her ... And a recording of her voice, when you do, please. :-D As well as a picture, we need these from every MP. And every public face of the BBC. And and and. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
