[Wikitech-l] A namespace for pages without chronology
Special pages, if I understand all their features, are special why: # they come from a live API query; # they cannot be managed/created/edited by users; # they have no chronology (it would be nonsense). It.source uses many list pages, daily updated by a bot, containing other project-specific queries. They are normal pages, and their chronology is bot useless and heavy. DynamicPageList extension could solve in part such a useless overload of web space, but its output can't be finely tuned. So, I imagine that it could be useful to have a special namespace for customable user-defined queries lists, with only one special feature: the lack of chronology stuff. I can imagine that a possible candidate for such exotic, chronology-free pages could be Special: namespace itself; obviously the name of user-created pages into Special: namespace should be different from any canonical Special pages. Am I mad? Alex ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] A namespace for pages without chronology
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Special pages, if I understand all their features, are special why: # they come from a live API query; # they cannot be managed/created/edited by users; # they have no chronology (it would be nonsense). Special pages are special because they don't have any contents stored at all, as such. When you view a special page, the software just executes a particular PHP script, which can be hardcoded to do absolutely anything. For instance, Special:MyPage just returns an HTTP redirect, not a page with contents. They don't have a history in general because they don't have any fixed contents at all -- the contents are generated on the fly in an arbitrary fashion. It.source uses many list pages, daily updated by a bot, containing other project-specific queries. They are normal pages, and their chronology is bot useless and heavy. DynamicPageList extension could solve in part such a useless overload of web space, but its output can't be finely tuned. Storing many revisions in history is not expensive. Don't worry about it. There's no way any users, even admins, will ever be permitted to update pages without leaving any history -- it violates the principle of reversibility that underlies how wikis work. Is there some problem you have with these list pages other than the fact that they have lots of history that no one cares about? If not, this is useful to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don't_worry_about_performance ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] A namespace for pages without chronology
2010/10/7 Aryeh Gregor simetrical+wikil...@gmail.comsimetrical%2bwikil...@gmail.com It.source uses many list pages, daily updated by a bot, containing other project-specific queries. They are normal pages, and their chronology is bot useless and heavy. DynamicPageList extension could solve in part such a useless overload of web space, but its output can't be finely tuned. Storing many revisions in history is not expensive. Don't worry about it. There's no way any users, even admins, will ever be permitted to update pages without leaving any history -- it violates the principle of reversibility that underlies how wikis work. Is there some problem you have with these list pages other than the fact that they have lots of history that no one cares about? If not, this is useful to read: Thank you. Really I went back to http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikisource/EN/TablesWikipediaIT.htm, and list pages (Elenco...) have a history of less than 2Mby each. You're right. Alex ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Table and data parsing extension
Hi there, This is my first post on the wikitech forum and I hope I'm posting it correctly... I have a wiki project and the platform is mostly composed of data within tables i.e. within cells. Currenty the data and tables are created and handled with standard wiki language (text), which has several restrictions, as you can imagine... I am looking for an extension that would allow: - to easily edit tables and cells in order for the wiki users to modify data... - to index or parse the data so as if it's getting change within one table i.e. one template, the modification gets propagated to other tables/sites. For instance the GDP of Switzerland is used in different tables within different pages. If this data get modified from 1 table (from the template), the other tables from other pages should also be updated with the new data. Does anyone know an extension that could do that? I have found Extension:Data (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Data#Data.php), which seems to be great but very hard to understand (or not clearly described)... and InlineTable (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:InlineTable). The extension of my dreams would be a combination of these both... Visage émoticône Thank you in advance for any hint! Cheers Erwan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] A namespace for pages without chronology
Alex Brollo wrote: Special pages, if I understand all their features, are special why: # they come from a live API query; # they cannot be managed/created/edited by users; # they have no chronology (it would be nonsense). It.source uses many list pages, daily updated by a bot, containing other project-specific queries. They are normal pages, and their chronology is bot useless and heavy. DynamicPageList extension could solve in part such a useless overload of web space, but its output can't be finely tuned. So, I imagine that it could be useful to have a special namespace for customable user-defined queries lists, with only one special feature: the lack of chronology stuff. I can imagine that a possible candidate for such exotic, chronology-free pages could be Special: namespace itself; obviously the name of user-created pages into Special: namespace should be different from any canonical Special pages. Am I mad? Alex There's no way admins would be allowed to run custom queries on WMF sites. We have existing special pages disabled. Unreviewed queries won't make into the cluster. Now, if the query you want can be done efficiently, it could be added as an extension. Really I went back to http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikisource/EN/TablesWikipediaIT.htm, and list pages (Elenco...) have a history of less than 2Mby each. You're right. If you want to reduce history size, you should begin by removing date-changing edits [1]. If you really need to show a date there, you can include a template from all the pages containing just the date where all of them were last updated. 1- Eg. no changes on last 16 days, but the bot is dutifully copying the page each day http://it.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource%3AElenco_alfabetico_degli_autori_Aaction=historysubmitdiff=662309oldid=638167 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] A namespace for pages without chronology
2010/10/7 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com Really I went back to http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikisource/EN/TablesWikipediaIT.htm, and list pages (Elenco...) have a history of less than 2Mby each. You're right. If you want to reduce history size, you should begin by removing date-changing edits [1]. If you really need to show a date there, you can include a template from all the pages containing just the date where all of them were last updated. 1- Eg. no changes on last 16 days, but the bot is dutifully copying the page each day http://it.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Wikisource%3AElenco_alfabetico_degli_autori_Aaction=historysubmitdiff=662309oldid=638167 Thanks! I didn't so far studied that code, nor I'm the driver of that bot, but you're perfectly right! I'll edit it so that the page will be edited only when the list is changed! Alex ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Pending Changes UI issues
Hi everyone, A few of us (Brandon, Alolita, and I) had a conversation about clearing up the more vague items on the Pending Changes roadmap (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Pending_Changes_enwiki_trial/Roadmap ), and we'd like to get some further feedback on what we discussed. First, the priority that we're tackling the vague stuff: 1. 25299: Make pending revision status clearer when viewing page: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25299 2. 25295: Improve reviewer experience when multiple simultaneous users review Pending Changes https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25295 3. 25296: History style cleanup - investigate possible fixes and detail the fixes https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25296 4. 25301: Firm up the list of minor UI improvements for the November 2010 Pending Changes release https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25301 5. 25298: Figure out what (if any) new Pending Changes links there should be in the side bar https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25298 (Note that there are other tasks that Chad and Priyanka are already tackling that aren't on this list.) Now for some more detail on each: 1. 25299: Make pending revision status clearer when viewing page: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25299 Right now, it takes a sharp eye to notice when one is looking at a page that hasn't been accepted yet. The main visual indicators are an icon on the right, and the fact that the Pending Changes rather than the Read tab is highlighted. What we plan to do here will be modeled on what you see when you're looking at an old revision (i.e. there will be a horizontal notice at the top indicating This is an pending revision of this page, as edited by 127.0.0.1 (talk | contribs) at 13:37, 7 October 2010. It may differ significantly from the accepted revision.) An old decision that we plan to revisit: currently, the revision you are shown depends on whether you're logged in or not you are logged in. If you're not logged in, then by default, you see the accepted revision. If you are logged in, you see the pending revision by default. Brandon feels pretty strongly that we need to be much more consistant here, always showing the accepted revision regardless of logged-in status. There's some research we need to do to make sure we understand the current rationale, but barring any unexpected insight, we'll probably be making the switch. 2. 25295: Improve reviewer experience when multiple simultaneous users review Pending Changes https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25295 Here are some of Brandon's initial thoughts. * We only want to show that a page is under review to other reviewers of the page. * We want to show who is reviewing the page, but also only to other reviewers of the page. * We should include better colors/icon. Almost everyone who I've talked to about this problem feels like maybe the timeout needs to be tuned, but since almost no one knows what the timeout is, that may be the problem itself. One possible workflow (inspired by our conversation, but not vetted by Brandon or Alolita) is this: * On the list of pages to review, keep the under review notice pretty much exactly as is * On the review page, in the Review this revision box, put one of two notices: ** This page is being reviewed by User:Xyz, who started 20:09, 7 October 2010 ** You are being advertised as currently reviewing of this page (started 20:09, 7 October 2010). [Stop reviewing] This would add some transparency to the review process, which will help us tune the timeout and generally make this work more as people would expect it to. Some implementation questions that we didn't know the answers to: 1) Do we know *who* is doing the reviewing of a page? (i.e. is this already stored somewhere we can get at it easily) If so, the notice should be pretty straightforward. 2) If so, when *anyone* looks at a set of pending changes, does it mark it as under review? We're assuming not, but one thing that's frustrating is that any time a reviewer looks at a diff, that automatically puts the page under review. 3. 25296: History style cleanup - investigate possible fixes and detail the fixes https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25296 This one represents a bit of a paradox for us. On one hand, we know that there is a LOT of work to do here, and thus, we know that we're not going to make significant usability progress on this one by November. On the other hand, there are a number of little things that are annoyingly wrong, and with just a small amount of care and attention, we could make incremental progress on. We don't want to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good, so we're going to try to restrain ourselves, and come up with a few easy things that we can do to make this a
Re: [Wikitech-l] Pending Changes UI issues
Rob Lanphier wrote: A few of us (Brandon, Alolita, and I) had a conversation about clearing up the more vague items on the Pending Changes roadmap (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Pending_Changes_enwiki_trial/Roadmap ), and we'd like to get some further feedback on what we discussed. Was the Wikimedia community invited to join this conversation? MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Pending Changes UI issues
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:28 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Rob Lanphier wrote: A few of us (Brandon, Alolita, and I) had a conversation about clearing up the more vague items on the Pending Changes roadmap (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Pending_Changes_enwiki_trial/Roadmap ), and we'd like to get some further feedback on what we discussed. Was the Wikimedia community invited to join this conversation? Yes, at Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:28 PM Rob ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation
Rob Lanphier wrote: On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 3:38 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Rob Lanphier wrote: I'd like to make everyone aware of this new open position: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister Is the position intended to be full-time? Yup. Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really odd. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Pending Changes UI issues
Rob Lanphier wrote: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:28 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Rob Lanphier wrote: A few of us (Brandon, Alolita, and I) had a conversation about clearing up the more vague items on the Pending Changes roadmap (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Pending_Changes_enwiki_trial/Roadmap ), and we'd like to get some further feedback on what we discussed. Was the Wikimedia community invited to join this conversation? Yes, at Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 8:28 PM There's a large difference between inviting the community to provide feedback on the conclusions you've privately reached and engaging and including the community in the substantive development process. If you can't understand that difference, it indicates a deep and fundamental flaw. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation
Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really odd. It's in the strategic plan: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right spot. Not wikitech-l. Respectfully, Ryan Lane ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Bugmeister opening at Wikimedia Foundation
Ryan Lane wrote: Given that Wikimedia already employs a number of contractors who don't work full-time, I think the fact that this position would be full-time is really odd. It's in the strategic plan: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2010-2011_Annual_Plan_Questions_and_Answers I don't see how the link you provided addresses the post you were replying to at all. If you'd like to discuss this, I think the strategy wiki is the right spot. Not wikitech-l. It's okay to advertise the position on wikitech-l, but not discuss it on wikitech-l? Okay. The strategy wiki is pretty much dead, so I guess I'll just move on. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
