[Wikitech-l] Re: My idea about wikipage parser (shared link on the article)

[Kunal Mehta]

Hi,

On 9/3/22 03:33, Dušan Kreheľ wrote:

i wanna share my idea (writed in the article) about the wikipage
parser: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Du%C5%A1an_Krehe%C4%BE/Signpost_draft:My_idea_about_wikipage_parser


I wasn't able to fully follow your conclusion, but I do want to say that 
Parsoid HTML is actually really great for bots. It's pretty well 
documented[1], and makes common bot things like parsing/manipulating 
templates really easy once you wrap your head around how to manipulate 
the DOM.


I developed a `parsoid` Rust crate[2] that lets you operate on Parsoid 
HTML at a very high level so you don't need to really understand the DOM 
stuff; it's basically the mwparserfromhell API with a few tweaks. It's 
part of the mwbot-rs project[3], so bots are a first-class use case (and 
interactive web tools too).


I would recommend you give it a second try, and if you get stuck, the 
Parsoid developers are pretty responsive to questions; you can find them 
in #mediawiki-parsoid on Libera, which is bridged to #parsoid:matrix.org.


[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Specs/HTML/2.5.0
[2] https://docs.rs/parsoid/0.7.0-alpha.4/parsoid/index.html
[3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/mwbot-rs

-- Kunal / Legoktm
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Request Timeout

[Kunal Mehta]

Hi,

On 9/7/22 15:18, bawolff wrote:
One possible fix would be to make syntaxhighlight an expensive parser 
function ;)


I just merged 
 
from Umherirrender that does this.


Once deployed, if a page has too many  calls, it'll 
just return un-highlighted code blocks (same as if you entered an 
unknown language) for the excess ones. This should prevent pages with an 
extreme amount of highlighting invocations from failing to render 
entirely, they'll just degrade towards the end of the page.


A note will be included in the next Tech News about it.

Thanks,
-- Kunal / Legoktm
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Fwd: StrikerBot invited you to join GitLab

[Kunal Mehta]

Hi,

On 9/7/22 18:28, Roy Smith wrote:
I just got the attached email.  Is this just fishing, or is this 
actually some wikimedia thing for real?


Just a general note, if you suspect a Wikimedia-related email is 
phishing, it would be better to send it to secur...@wikimedia.org to be 
reviewed rather than everyone on wikitech-l.


Thanks,
-- Kunal / Legoktm
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Fwd: StrikerBot invited you to join GitLab

[Chico Venancio]

https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/cloud-annou...@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/LSUIQGQ4DCHNDDIT54XMQ2FHK4E4DW3W/

TL;DR, diffusion moved to gitlab

Chico Venancio

Em qua., 7 de set. de 2022 às 19:28, Roy Smith  escreveu:

> I just got the attached email.  Is this just fishing, or is this actually
> some wikimedia thing for real?
>
> I host spi-tools in github.  I have no plans to move it to gitlab.  Why
> has somebody created it on gitlab for me and invited me to be an owner?
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Gitlab 
> *Subject: **StrikerBot invited you to join GitLab*
> *Date: *September 7, 2022 at 6:22:56 PM EDT
> *To: *r...@panix.com
> *Reply-To: *Gitlab 
>
> [image: GitLab]
>
> StrikerBot  invited you to join the 
> *toolforge-repos
> / spi-tools*
> project as a owner
>
> Join now
> 
> Project details
>
>-  *1* member
>-  *0* issues
>-  *0* opened merge requests
>
> What's it about?
>
> Projects are used to host and collaborate on code, track issues, and
> continuously build, test, and deploy your app with built-in GitLab CI/CD.
> [image: GitLab]
> GitLab is a complete DevOps platform, delivered as a single application,
> fundamentally changing the way
> Development, Security, and Ops teams collaborate
>
>
> ___
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[Wikitech-l] Fwd: StrikerBot invited you to join GitLab

[Roy Smith]

I just got the attached email.  Is this just fishing, or is this actually some 
wikimedia thing for real?

I host spi-tools in github.  I have no plans to move it to gitlab.  Why has 
somebody created it on gitlab for me and invited me to be an owner?



> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Gitlab 
> Subject: StrikerBot invited you to join GitLab
> Date: September 7, 2022 at 6:22:56 PM EDT
> To: r...@panix.com
> Reply-To: Gitlab 
> 
> 
> 
> StrikerBot  invited you to join the 
> toolforge-repos / spi-tools
> project as a owner
> 
> Join now 
> 
> Project details
>  1 member
>  0 issues
>  0 opened merge requests
> What's it about?
> Projects are used to host and collaborate on code, track issues, and 
> continuously build, test, and deploy your app with built-in GitLab CI/CD.
> 
> 
> GitLab is a complete DevOps platform, delivered as a single application, 
> fundamentally changing the way
> Development, Security, and Ops teams collaborate

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[Wikitech-l] Re: Outreachy Round 25–call for projects and mentors now open!

[Roy Smith]

On Sep 7, 2022, at 4:50 PM, novemling...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> - FTP programs that aren't WinSCP with "environment -> SFTP -> server -> sudo 
> -u tools.novem-bot /usr/lib/sftp-server" configured appear to the user to 
> work, but create some hard-to-track-down bugs because files have the wrong 
> owner. For example I tried using FileZilla Client before I found the tutorial.

My take on this is that Toolforge is unabashedly a linux environment.  If 
there's some incompatibility with a Windows app, that's not toolforge's 
problem.  I log into toolforge with this alias:

> alias spi-tools-dev='ssh -t dev.toolforge.org tmux new -A -s spi-tools-dev 
> become spi-tools-dev'

As needed, I set up port tunnels with things like:

> alias tunnel='ssh -t dev.toolforge.org  -L 23002:localhost:23002 become 
> spi-experiments'

And likewise I can move files in and out with scp.  I agree that there's a 
learning curve to all this ssh stuff (including the associated key management), 
but hiding that beneath a cPanel veneer just makes it all the more mysterious 
because you're never really sure what's going on.  If you're going to develop 
in a linux environment, invest the time to learn the linux tools.

>  Suggested fix: give a separate login for each tool folder, so that you don't 
> have to sudo


Logging in as a person. then gaining some specific additional set of rights 
with sudo (the "become" utility is really just a thin wrapper around sudo) 
maintains the appropriate distinction between authentication (who you are) and 
authorization (what you're allowed to do).  If each tool had its own login, 
then how would multiple people maintain the tool?  They'd have to share the 
password to the account.  That's not a good plan.


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[Wikitech-l] Re: Outreachy Round 25–call for projects and mentors now open!

[novemling...@gmail.com]

Hi Slavina,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but here are a couple things I did 
not find intuitive when I started using Toolforge. I've been using 
PHP/cPanel style web hosts since around year 2000 so I was expecting an 
experience similar to that, but I encountered a couple of "gotchyas" 
that surprised me and slowed down my onboarding. Windows 10 user here.


- FTP programs that aren't WinSCP with "environment -> SFTP -> server -> 
sudo -u tools.novem-bot /usr/lib/sftp-server" configured appear to the 
user to work, but create some hard-to-track-down bugs because files have 
the wrong owner. For example I tried using FileZilla Client before I 
found the tutorial. Suggested fix: give a separate login for each tool 
folder, so that you don't have to sudo.


- Other Toolforge users can view all my files by default, including my 
password files, unless I manually set them to 0600. Security issue, imo. 
Suggested fix: Perhaps only admins should be able to view other people's 
files, and perhaps create a page that is watchlisted by Toolforge admins 
to request copies of other people's files minus their password files.


- Kubernetes is not intuitive and has a learning curve. Suggested fix: 
Perhaps a GUI control panel should be created that auto-creates 
cronjobs.yaml files, generates the interval for you (e.g. 01 13 * * *), 
lets you pick the image from a dropdown box, and executes kubernetes 
commands such as kubectl apply --validate=true -f $HOME/cronjobs.yaml, 
kubectl delete cronjob task-a, kubectl get pods, kubectl logs [pod 
name], etc. with the push of the appropriate button.


Hope that helps. Thanks and have a great day.

Novem Linguae


On 9/7/2022 7:30 AM, Roy Smith wrote:
The biggest issues I see are the lack of any good logging, monitoring 
and alerting tools.  Things like icinga, logstash, grafina.  The kind 
of things that are standard for supporting any production system. 
 I've raised this before, so I won't belabor the point here.


And https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256426 continues to be an 
every-day pain in my side.  The related 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T127367 is triaged as high priority. 
 It's been open for 6-1/2 years.




On Sep 7, 2022, at 10:17 AM, Slavina Stefanova 
 wrote:


On a side note, I'd be interested in hearing what you dislike about 
Toolforge, if you'd like to share. We (the cloud services team) are 
working on improving Toolforge and don't always get as much feedback, 
good or bad, as we'd want.



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[Wikitech-l] Re: Request Timeout

[bawolff]

On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:17 PM Ryan Schmidt  wrote:

>
>
> On Sep 7, 2022, at 7:54 AM, Martin Domdey  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi,
>
> it looks like there is nobody who can work on a bug or production error
> like this: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T316858
>
> I don't think, that this is a production error but really a bug. If it's
> not possible to open a page (
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Doc_Taxon/Test4 ) because of
> running into timeout, the time should be increased to open the page to get
> the content of this page.
>
> Is there really nobody from WMF or a volunteer who can help me with this
> issue? If you know somebody feel free to name him/her for contacting
> him/her.
>
> Thank you very much
> Martin (aka Doc Taxon) ...
>
>
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>
>
> You were told on that task how to access the page contents. Edit the page
> and make it smaller. Timeouts aren’t going to be increased because of
> someone trying to do something borderline malicious such as shelling out to
> Pygments hundreds of times in a page.
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One possible fix would be to make syntaxhighlight an expensive parser
function ;)
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Request Timeout

[Dušan Kreheľ]

Hm:
* The HTML answer: 6865240 B (6.865 MB)
* The wiki RAW: 1079263 B (~1 MB)
* The count sections: 5020

I think, the Wikimedia software is not primary developing for so
characteristic page.

Martin Domdey: It's none problem to looking the page as the normal
user, but first, You disable the JavaScript in Your browser and then,
You open the page and You wait for loading.

Dušan Kreheľ

2022-09-07 19:35 GMT+02:00, Bartosz Dziewoński :
> Given that the problem is caused by using thousands of 
> tags on the page, and the page is generated by a bot, it seems to me
> like the ideal solution is to make the bot perform the syntax
> highlighting locally using your favorite fast library, and save the
> resulting HTML markup to the page.
>
>
> --
> Bartosz Dziewoński
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Request Timeout

[Bartosz Dziewoński]

Given that the problem is caused by using thousands of  
tags on the page, and the page is generated by a bot, it seems to me 
like the ideal solution is to make the bot perform the syntax 
highlighting locally using your favorite fast library, and save the 
resulting HTML markup to the page.



--
Bartosz Dziewoński
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Request Timeout

[Ryan Schmidt]

> On Sep 7, 2022, at 7:54 AM, Martin Domdey  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> it looks like there is nobody who can work on a bug or production error like 
> this: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T316858
> 
> I don't think, that this is a production error but really a bug. If it's not 
> possible to open a page ( 
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Doc_Taxon/Test4 ) because of running 
> into timeout, the time should be increased to open the page to get the 
> content of this page.
> 
> Is there really nobody from WMF or a volunteer who can help me with this 
> issue? If you know somebody feel free to name him/her for contacting him/her.
> 
> Thank you very much
> Martin (aka Doc Taxon) ...
> 
> 
> ___
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You were told on that task how to access the page contents. Edit the page and 
make it smaller. Timeouts aren’t going to be increased because of someone 
trying to do something borderline malicious such as shelling out to Pygments 
hundreds of times in a page.___
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[Wikitech-l] Request Timeout

[Martin Domdey]

Hi,

it looks like there is nobody who can work on a bug or production error
like this: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T316858

I don't think, that this is a production error but really a bug. If it's
not possible to open a page (
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Doc_Taxon/Test4 ) because of running
into timeout, the time should be increased to open the page to get the
content of this page.

Is there really nobody from WMF or a volunteer who can help me with this
issue? If you know somebody feel free to name him/her for contacting
him/her.

Thank you very much
Martin (aka Doc Taxon) ...
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Outreachy Round 25–call for projects and mentors now open!

[Roy Smith]

The biggest issues I see are the lack of any good logging, monitoring and 
alerting tools.  Things like icinga, logstash, grafina.  The kind of things 
that are standard for supporting any production system.  I've raised this 
before, so I won't belabor the point here.

And https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T256426 
 continues to be an every-day pain 
in my side.  The related https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T127367 
 is triaged as high priority.  It's 
been open for 6-1/2 years.



> On Sep 7, 2022, at 10:17 AM, Slavina Stefanova  
> wrote:
> 
> On a side note, I'd be interested in hearing what you dislike about 
> Toolforge, if you'd like to share. We (the cloud services team) are working 
> on improving Toolforge and don't always get as much feedback, good or bad, as 
> we'd want. 

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[Wikitech-l] Re: Outreachy Round 25–call for projects and mentors now open!

[Slavina Stefanova]

>
> I assume the plan is to do this in Toolforge?  There's a few things about
> Toolforge that I bristle at, but it does give a lot of value in the stuff
> you get for free.  I don't see any viable alternative for a small project
> like this.


Toolforge is an option; Cloud VPS is also possible if we need something
more flexible.

On a side note, I'd be interested in hearing what you dislike about
Toolforge, if you'd like to share. We (the cloud services team) are working
on improving Toolforge and don't always get as much feedback, good or bad,
as we'd want.

--
Slavina Stefanova (she/her)
Software Engineer - Technical Engagement

Wikimedia Foundation


On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 3:08 PM Roy Smith  wrote:

> Just from my personal experience, I see django as a good "batteries
> included" solution that lets you get something up and running quickly
> because it gives you all the pieces in one package.  But I've found that I
> tend to actually use very little of it.
>
> I tend not to use the django database/model stuff.  On my one large-scale
> django project, we used mongodb with mongoengine for the ORM layer.  On
> spi-tools, I'm using redis.
>
> I've totally sworn off django templates in favor of Jinja, even at the
> cost of breaking some of the neat test client tools django supplies.
>
> I kind of like django's middleware system, but in practice I find it a
> little too complicated, mostly because django doesn't provide a good way to
> pass around per-request context.  So you end up shoving your own data into
> django's HttpRequest, which is kind of evil.  Or you use thread local
> storage, which always seems a little sketchy.  Flask at least attacks the
> problem head-on by providing you with an explicit global object to use.  It
> may be thread locals under the covers, but at least it's officially
> supported.
>
> I like Flask's decorator-based routing better than Django's url.py system.
>
> But, with all that, I've got a few production Django systems under my belt
> and have only just toyed with Flask enough to get a feel for how it works.
>
> I assume the plan is to do this in Toolforge?  There's a few things about
> Toolforge that I bristle at, but it does give a lot of value in the stuff
> you get for free.  I don't see any viable alternative for a small project
> like this.
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2022, at 4:23 AM, Slavina Stefanova 
> wrote:
>
> I appreciate suggestions on the tech stack we end up going with.
>
>
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[Wikitech-l] Re: Outreachy Round 25–call for projects and mentors now open!

[Roy Smith]

Just from my personal experience, I see django as a good "batteries included" 
solution that lets you get something up and running quickly because it gives 
you all the pieces in one package.  But I've found that I tend to actually use 
very little of it.

I tend not to use the django database/model stuff.  On my one large-scale 
django project, we used mongodb with mongoengine for the ORM layer.  On 
spi-tools, I'm using redis.

I've totally sworn off django templates in favor of Jinja, even at the cost of 
breaking some of the neat test client tools django supplies.

I kind of like django's middleware system, but in practice I find it a little 
too complicated, mostly because django doesn't provide a good way to pass 
around per-request context.  So you end up shoving your own data into django's 
HttpRequest, which is kind of evil.  Or you use thread local storage, which 
always seems a little sketchy.  Flask at least attacks the problem head-on by 
providing you with an explicit global object to use.  It may be thread locals 
under the covers, but at least it's officially supported.

I like Flask's decorator-based routing better than Django's url.py system.

But, with all that, I've got a few production Django systems under my belt and 
have only just toyed with Flask enough to get a feel for how it works.

I assume the plan is to do this in Toolforge?  There's a few things about 
Toolforge that I bristle at, but it does give a lot of value in the stuff you 
get for free.  I don't see any viable alternative for a small project like this.


> On Sep 7, 2022, at 4:23 AM, Slavina Stefanova  
> wrote:
> 
> I appreciate suggestions on the tech stack we end up going with.

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[Wikitech-l] Re: Outreachy Round 25–call for projects and mentors now open!

[Slavina Stefanova]

Hi Roy,

Thank you for your interest! Your background sounds great. I like Django
too, but think it may be overkill for this particular project. Nothing is
set in stone, though, and I appreciate suggestions on the tech stack we end
up going with. A few other people have expressed interest too, so I will
give it a few days and get back to everybody early next week. If you have
any questions in the meantime, please let me know.

--
Slavina Stefanova (she/her)
Software Engineer - Technical Engagement

Wikimedia Foundation


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 3:53 PM Roy Smith  wrote:

> Hi.  I might be interested.  I'm expert in Python, and have some
> experience with Flask.  I'm the author of spi-tools
> , which was done in Django, but
> I've come around to thinking that Flask probably would have been a better
> choice.
>
> I have minimal front-end / javascript skills, but wouldn't mind getting
> some exposure to Vue.js.
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2022, at 5:24 AM, Slavina Stefanova 
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am looking for someone to join me as a co-mentor for the Outreachy 2022
> December cohort. I’m a former Outreachy intern and currently working as a
> software engineer with the Technical Engagement team at WMF.
>
> The project is detailed in this Phabricator task[0]. It will be a web app
> similar to the tool Citation Hunt[1]. If you have some experience
> developing web applications, this could be a good opportunity to get
> involved on the mentoring side. You don’t have to know everything, as long
> as you have sufficient skills in either frontend, backend, or design. New
> mentors are welcome!
>
> The time commitment is around 5h/week from December to March, and during
> the contribution and applicant selection phase in October.
>
> You are welcome to email me with any questions, or ask them directly in
> this thread.
>
> Also, if you aren’t interested yourself but know someone who might be,
> please spread the word <3
>
>
> Thanks,
> Slavina
>
> [0] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T317083
> [1] https://citationhunt.toolforge.org/
>
>
> --
> Slavina Stefanova (she/her)
> Software Engineer - Technical Engagement
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 2:46 PM Srishti Sethi 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Wikimedia is participating in the winter edition of this year's Outreachy
>>  [1] (December 2022–March 2023)! The
>> deadline to submit projects on the Outreachy website is September 30th,
>> 2022. We are currently working on a list of interesting project ideas. If
>> you have some ideas for coding or non-coding (design, documentation,
>> translation, outreach, research) projects, share them here: <
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T313361> [2].
>>
>>
>> *About the Outreachy program*
>> Outreachy offers three-month internships to work remotely in Free and
>> Open Source Software (FOSS), coding, and non-coding projects with
>> experienced mentors. These internships run twice a year–from May to August
>> and December to March. Interns are paid a stipend of USD 7000 for the three
>> months of work. Interns often find employment after their internship with
>> Outreachy sponsors or jobs that use the skills they learned during their
>> internship. This program is open to both students and non-students.
>> Outreachy expressly invites the following people to apply:
>> * Women (both cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people.
>> * Anyone who faces under-representation, systematic bias, or
>> discrimination in the technology industry in their country of residence.
>> * Residents and nationals of the United States of any gender who are
>> Black/African American, Hispanic/Latinx, Native American/American Indian,
>> Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander.
>>
>> See a blog post highlighting the experiences and outcomes of interns who
>> participated in a previous round of Outreachy with Wikimedia <
>> https://techblog.wikimedia.org/2021/06/02/outreachy-round-21-experiences-and-outcomes/>
>> [3]
>>
>>
>> *Tips for mentors for proposing projects*
>> * Follow this task description template when you propose a project in
>> Phabricator: <
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/outreach-programs-projects> [4].
>> Add #Outreachy-Round-25 tag.
>> * Project should require an experienced developer ~15 days and a newcomer
>> ~3 months to complete.
>> * Each project should have at least two mentors, with one of them holding
>> a technical background.
>> * Ideally, the project has no tight deadlines, a moderate learning curve,
>> and fewer dependencies on Wikimedia's core infrastructure. Projects
>> addressing the needs of a language community are most welcome.
>> * If you don't have an idea in mind and would like to pick one from an
>> existing list, check out these projects: <
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/outreach-programs-projects/> [4]
>> * To learn more about the roles and responsibilities of mentors, visit
>> our re