Re: [Wikitech-l] WikipediaP2P

[Chad]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:33 AM bawolff  wrote:

> See also related discussion last year
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-November/084143.html
>
>
And the year before, and before that, and before that... it's a perennial
proposal ;-)


> Personally I think this whole thing is a bad idea
> * Its questionable how much this would actually save anything. Cached
> anon hits are pretty cheap
>

Indeed.


> * This basically doesn't do cach invalidation. Lets just have
> vandalism stay around for long periods of time
>

Yep, that's always been a problem in these proposals.

* Probably makes it much easier for third parties to determine what
> you are browsing. (Censorship resistant p2p networks is still an open
> research problem last I checked)
>

Plus this.


> * Probably makes it easier for adversaries to selectively censor
> specific articles
> [I haven't looked at the implementation, but I'm going to guess here]
>

Basically because of the above.


> * Questionable how it would verify content is legit. What's stopping a
> malicious actor from putting random malicious js into the p2p network,
> or someone replacing articles with biased versions.
>
>
Same thing here. That being saidI'm curious if there's some sort of
middle ground here. I wonder how much (c|w)ould be saved by serving
static assets (CSS, UI images, etc etc) via P2P. Prolly not much in the
US/Europe, but in places with poor latency this could be interesting.

-Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] WikipediaP2P

[Pine W]

I'd love to have Wikimedia content not be dependent on WMF servers, but as
noted by others, there are a lot of problems to address, including privacy
and security issues. At some point I think it might be good to have an
office hour or some other kind of meeting about this subject to discuss
possibilities. I won't be involved in this for the for the foreseeable
future due to the many other issues that are on my task list, but +1 moral
support. I'd like to see reduced dependency of Wikimedia content on WMF
included in the WMF strategic plan.

Pine


On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Gabriel Wicke 
wrote:

> For offline / poor connectivity use cases, I am more excited about
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/FlyWeb. In contrast to WebRTC based solutions,
> this enables completely local discovery and sharing of resources, without
> requiring an internet connection.
>
> WebRTC based P2P CDNs are not very useful for the most common Wikipedia
> session, which is a single page lookup after following a link from a search
> engine. They are more useful for live video streaming, where session
> length, resource size, and number of simultaneous users interested in the
> same chunks is more favorable.
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:33 AM, bawolff  wrote:
>
> > See also related discussion last year
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-
> November/084143.html
> >
> > Personally I think this whole thing is a bad idea
> > * Its questionable how much this would actually save anything. Cached
> > anon hits are pretty cheap
> > * This basically doesn't do cach invalidation. Lets just have
> > vandalism stay around for long periods of time
> > * Probably makes it much easier for third parties to determine what
> > you are browsing. (Censorship resistant p2p networks is still an open
> > research problem last I checked)
> > * Probably makes it easier for adversaries to selectively censor
> > specific articles
> > [I haven't looked at the implementation, but I'm going to guess here]
> > * Questionable how it would verify content is legit. What's stopping a
> > malicious actor from putting random malicious js into the p2p network,
> > or someone replacing articles with biased versions.
> >
> > --
> > bawolff
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Joaquin Oltra Hernandez
> >  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I saw this project and I thought it was very interesting:
> > >
> > > https://www.wikipediap2p.org/
> > >
> > > Basically, it makes the clients connect to each other to share pages
> > > between each other using webrtc before going to the centralized server.
> > >
> > > It would probably be a bad idea to convert mobile devices into network
> > > peers given the data restrictions and quality of connections but it
> seems
> > > like something very interesting for the desktop clients.
> > >
> > > Cheers
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> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gabriel Wicke
> Principal Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] WikipediaP2P

[Magnus Manske]

It also sounds like a great way to expose your Wikipedia browsing to the
cloud...

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 5:01 PM Joaquin Oltra Hernandez <
jhernan...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I saw this project and I thought it was very interesting:
>
> https://www.wikipediap2p.org/
>
> Basically, it makes the clients connect to each other to share pages
> between each other using webrtc before going to the centralized server.
>
> It would probably be a bad idea to convert mobile devices into network
> peers given the data restrictions and quality of connections but it seems
> like something very interesting for the desktop clients.
>
> Cheers
> ___
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> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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[Wikitech-l] WikipediaP2P

[Joaquin Oltra Hernandez]

Hi,

I saw this project and I thought it was very interesting:

https://www.wikipediap2p.org/

Basically, it makes the clients connect to each other to share pages
between each other using webrtc before going to the centralized server.

It would probably be a bad idea to convert mobile devices into network
peers given the data restrictions and quality of connections but it seems
like something very interesting for the desktop clients.

Cheers
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