Re: [Wikitech-l] TechCom meeting 2020-12-16

[Daniel Kinzler]

Ariel just pointed out that the original mail had the wrong link for the RFC
ticket. Sorry about that The correct link to the RFC about PageIdentity is:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T208776

-- 

Daniel Kinzler
Principal Software Engineer, Core Platform
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikitech-l] TechCom meeting 2020-12-16

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 17.12.20 um 14:25 schrieb Daniel Kinzler:
> My original proposal was to change the signature of getId() to getId( $wikiId
> = false ), to assert that the PageIdentity actually belongs to the wiki the
> caller expects.


I made a patch exploring that option:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/650126.


It's much simpler, but it relies on runtime assertions rather than type hints.

-- 

Daniel Kinzler
Principal Software Engineer, Core Platform
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikitech-l] TechCom meeting 2020-12-16

[Daniel Kinzler]

> RFC: Introduce PageIdentity to be used instead of WikiPage.
>
>   * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T259771
>   * Daniel to document concern about adopting false advertisement.
>   * Daniel to add some kind of intermediary Local-only interface to adopt
> first, then on Last Call until Jan 6.
>
In the meeting yesterday, Timo and I discussed how to best represent the idea
that a PageIdentity (or PageRecord) may represent a page on another wiki (to
improve cross-wiki support), but most code that currently uses a Title or
WikiPage (and would in the future take a PageIdentity or PageRecord) is not
aware of that.

My original proposal was to change the signature of getId() to getId( $wikiId =
false ), to assert that the PageIdentity actually belongs to the wiki the caller
expects.

Timo preferred to represent this using dedicated types like LocalPageIdentity,
so the type hint would ensure assumptions are correct.  I pushed an experimental
patch that adds the "local" variant of the relevant interfaces and classes:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/650112

This complicates the type hierarchy quite a bit, I'm not sure it's worthwhile. I
personally like such a a fine grained system of types to represent different
guarantees, but I have gotten pushback about it in the past. If it ends up
confusing people or putting them off, it may do more harm than good.

It would be helpful for me to hear what others think of this approach before I
put this on last call as discussed yesterday.

-- daniel



> RFC: Drop support for older database upgrades
>
>   * https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T259771
>   * Looks good to go, but we already have two RFCs on Last Call.
>   * Expected to go on Last Call in January.
>
>
> Upcoming holidays
>
> There will also be no TechCom triage meeting on 23 December and 30 December
> due to holidays. The next triage and review will be in the week of 6 January
> 2021.
>
>
> Next week IRC office hours
>
> No IRC discussion scheduled for next week.
>
> You can also find our meeting minutes at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Technical_Committee/Minutes
>
> -- Timo
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 12:49 PM Niklas Laxström  > wrote:
>
> This is the weekly TechCom board review in preparation of our meeting on
> Wednesday. If there are additional topics for TechCom to review, please
> let us know by replying to this email. However, please keep discussion
> about individual RFCs to the Phabricator tickets.
>
> Activity since Tuesday 2020-12-08 on the following boards:
>
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/techcom/
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/techcom-rfc/
>
> Committee inbox: (none)
>
> Committee board activity:
>
>   * T42787  Remove legacy ajax
> interface
>   o I moved from Inbox to Watching
>   * T267213  Create WikiTeq
> group on Gerrit
>   o Kizule is asking for an update.
>   o It seems there are two things to do: create the group and update
> the policy.
>
> New RFCs: (none)
>
> Phase progression: (none)
>
> IRC meeting request: (none)
>
> Other RFC activity:
>
>   * T263841  RFC: Expand API
> title generator to support other generated data
>   o There is a new proposal text. Please comment.
>   * T259771 : RFC: Drop support
> for database upgrade older than two LTS releases.
>   o Discussion on the task. To me it looks mostly in favor or
> commenting that some of the problems are not fully solved by this
> proposal.
>   * T268326  RFC: Amendment to
> the Stable interface policy (November 2020)
>   o Feedback given about the proposed 3 month minimum period
>   * T119173 : RFC: Discourage
> use of MySQL's ENUM type.
>   o Amir showed how to automatically generate on-wiki documentation
> for tables.
>   * T133452 : RFC: Create
> temporary accounts for anonymous editors.
>   o Many comments after Tim proposed to use cloaks (see his comment in
> the task for details)
>   * T214362 : RFC: Store
> WikibaseQualityConstraint check data in persistent storage.
>   o Krinkle asked for clarifications. Lucas responded with a comment
> and Lydia offered to have it explained in a call.
>   * T208776 : RFC: Introduce
> PageIdentity to be used instead of WikiPage.
>   o Krinkle and Daniel discuss implementation details in context 

Re: [Wikitech-l] TechCom meeting 2020-12-16

[Timo Tijhof]

The minutes from TechCom's triage meeting on 16 December 2020.

Present:  Daniel K., Tim S., Timo T.
Create WikiTeq group on Gerrit

   - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T267213
   - Approved.
   - TechCom to amend the policy to add the exemption.
   - Gerrit admins to create the group and explain that they can decide who
   to be added, but that Phab tickets will be required still.

RFC: Expand API title generator to support other generated data

   - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T263841
   - Matthias has proposed wording for the API policy.
   - Put on Last Call until Jan 6.

RFC: Introduce PageIdentity to be used instead of WikiPage.

   - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T259771
   - Daniel to document concern about adopting false advertisement.
   - Daniel to add some kind of intermediary Local-only interface to adopt
   first, then on Last Call until Jan 6.

RFC: Drop support for older database upgrades

   - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T259771
   - Looks good to go, but we already have two RFCs on Last Call.
   - Expected to go on Last Call in January.

Upcoming holidaysThere will also be no TechCom triage meeting on 23
December and 30 December due to holidays. The next triage and review will
be in the week of 6 January 2021. Next week IRC office hours

No IRC discussion scheduled for next week.

You can also find our meeting minutes at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Technical_Committee/Minutes

-- Timo

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 12:49 PM Niklas Laxström 
wrote:

> This is the weekly TechCom board review in preparation of our meeting on
> Wednesday. If there are additional topics for TechCom to review, please let
> us know by replying to this email. However, please keep discussion about
> individual RFCs to the Phabricator tickets.
>
> Activity since Tuesday 2020-12-08 on the following boards:
>
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/techcom/
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/techcom-rfc/
>
> Committee inbox: (none)
>
> Committee board activity:
>
>- T42787  Remove legacy ajax
>interface
>   - I moved from Inbox to Watching
>- T267213  Create WikiTeq
>group on Gerrit
>- Kizule is asking for an update.
>   - It seems there are two things to do: create the group and update
>   the policy.
>
> New RFCs: (none)
>
> Phase progression: (none)
>
> IRC meeting request: (none)
>
> Other RFC activity:
>
>- T263841  RFC: Expand API
>title generator to support other generated data
>- There is a new proposal text. Please comment.
>- T259771 : RFC: Drop
>support for database upgrade older than two LTS releases.
>- Discussion on the task. To me it looks mostly in favor or commenting
>   that some of the problems are not fully solved by this proposal.
>- T268326  RFC: Amendment
>to the Stable interface policy (November 2020)
>- Feedback given about the proposed 3 month minimum period
>- T119173 : RFC: Discourage
>use of MySQL's ENUM type.
>- Amir showed how to automatically generate on-wiki documentation for
>   tables.
>- T133452 : RFC: Create
>temporary accounts for anonymous editors.
>- Many comments after Tim proposed to use cloaks (see his comment in
>   the task for details)
>- T214362 : RFC: Store
>WikibaseQualityConstraint check data in persistent storage.
>- Krinkle asked for clarifications. Lucas responded with a comment and
>   Lydia offered to have it explained in a call.
>- T208776 : RFC: Introduce
>PageIdentity to be used instead of WikiPage.
>- Krinkle and Daniel discuss implementation details in context of
>   what's best for type safety, clarity and migration.
>
>
>   -Niklas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] TechCom meeting 2020-12-16

[Niklas Laxström]

I'll also add that I wrote an implementation plan (proposal, rather) for
translatable modules. I'd appreciate feedback for the open questions and in
general. Do note though that there isn't currently a timeline for the
implementation.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Translatable_modules/Technical_implementation

  -Niklas
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Re: [Wikitech-l] TechCom meeting 2020-12-16

[Daniel Kinzler]

>   * T208776 : RFC: Introduce
> PageIdentity to be used instead of WikiPage.
>   o Krinkle and Daniel discuss implementation details in context of what's
> best for type safety, clarity and migration.
>
I hope we can move this to Last Call today. It would be useful to have agreement
on this before we start experimenting with introducing Authority.


On an unrelated note, Tgr is requesting clarification about merge rights for
repos that are used for things like tools on labs:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Vzovpwgjev621dbq


-- 

Daniel Kinzler
Principal Software Engineer, Core Platform
Wikimedia Foundation

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