Re: Forum proposal
On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:57 +0100, Tomas Carnecky wrote: Luis C. Busquets Pérez wrote: I understand that for some people the mailing list is a far better thing. May be for some other, a forum is better. Why not trying both systems? This question has already been answered.. anyway: if you have both a ML and a forum, you effectively split the community into two parts! Nobody will be on both the forum and the ML, it will be harder for the users because they'll have to two places to go to, and it will be harder for the developers because bug-reports will be posted two two different places. tom This just isn't true. I read the mailing list and check the various forums where Wine is discussed regularly. It's not that difficult to do both, since I check my email anyway. Thanks, Scott Ritchie
Re: Forum proposal
Scott Ritchie wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:57 +0100, Tomas Carnecky wrote: Luis C. Busquets Pérez wrote: I understand that for some people the mailing list is a far better thing. May be for some other, a forum is better. Why not trying both systems? This question has already been answered.. anyway: if you have both a ML and a forum, you effectively split the community into two parts! Nobody will be on both the forum and the ML, it will be harder for the users because they'll have to two places to go to, and it will be harder for the developers because bug-reports will be posted two two different places. tom This just isn't true. I read the mailing list and check the various forums where Wine is discussed regularly. It's not that difficult to do both, since I check my email anyway. Maybe you, but there are other people who just don't have time to monitor both a forum and the ML. And my point still stands, you split the community up! tom
Re: Forum proposal
On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 12:55 +0100, Tomas Carnecky wrote: Scott Ritchie wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:57 +0100, Tomas Carnecky wrote: Luis C. Busquets Pérez wrote: I understand that for some people the mailing list is a far better thing. May be for some other, a forum is better. Why not trying both systems? This question has already been answered.. anyway: if you have both a ML and a forum, you effectively split the community into two parts! Nobody will be on both the forum and the ML, it will be harder for the users because they'll have to two places to go to, and it will be harder for the developers because bug-reports will be posted two two different places. tom This just isn't true. I read the mailing list and check the various forums where Wine is discussed regularly. It's not that difficult to do both, since I check my email anyway. Maybe you, but there are other people who just don't have time to monitor both a forum and the ML. And my point still stands, you split the community up! I didn't split anything up. People are ALREADY talking about Wine on a whole bunch of web forums. Hell, sometimes people still talk about Wine on that archaic newsgroup. Thanks, Scott Ritchie
Re: Forum proposal
That's not really that much of an issue as only the ML is official so devs and such don't have to go trapsing after people, they have to come here. Ex. Tomas Carnecky wrote: Scott Ritchie wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:57 +0100, Tomas Carnecky wrote: Luis C. Busquets Pérez wrote: I understand that for some people the mailing list is a far better thing. May be for some other, a forum is better. Why not trying both systems? This question has already been answered.. anyway: if you have both a ML and a forum, you effectively split the community into two parts! Nobody will be on both the forum and the ML, it will be harder for the users because they'll have to two places to go to, and it will be harder for the developers because bug-reports will be posted two two different places. tom This just isn't true. I read the mailing list and check the various forums where Wine is discussed regularly. It's not that difficult to do both, since I check my email anyway. Maybe you, but there are other people who just don't have time to monitor both a forum and the ML. And my point still stands, you split the community up! tom signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Forum proposal
On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 05:15:03PM +0100, Luis Carlos Busquets Pérez wrote: Instead of having the mailing lists, I think that a forum would increase and facilitate the group working. I could agree less. IMHO a mailing list works well by making sure that everyone gets everything, without them needing to go anywhere to get it. A forum wil immediately disenfranchise all thsoe who have no immediate need to go and visit the forum site every day and so will miss important annoucements and so on. Bad idea. Jonathan
Re: Re: Forum proposal
I fully agree with Jonathan - the mail lists that have gone to forums I've dropped off. I can check the mail lists quickly, easily, filter as necessary and get what I need without having to sign on and wade through a bunch of posts. If people really want forums setup a forum and let those who want it use it. From: Jonathan Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/03/01 Thu AM 11:20:18 EST To: wine-devel@winehq.org Subject: Re: Forum proposal On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 05:15:03PM +0100, Luis Carlos Busquets Pérez wrote: Instead of having the mailing lists, I think that a forum would increase and facilitate the group working. I could agree less. IMHO a mailing list works well by making sure that everyone gets everything, without them needing to go anywhere to get it. A forum wil immediately disenfranchise all thsoe who have no immediate need to go and visit the forum site every day and so will miss important annoucements and so on. Bad idea. Jonathan
Re: Re: Forum proposal
Perhaps there is some middle ground in that support could be improved to make the mailing list archive a bit more forum like and allow posting to the mailing list from the pages on which the mailing list messages would be published? It wouldn't be that different except perhaps the flow and display of conversation would be more easily caught up on by new comers. As it is right now its hard to find out what has been or is being discussed without waiting a few weeks and then puzzling it out. To sum up, mailing list stays, but the archive of it on webpages would get more of an interface to allow better collection and organization of past conversations (very forum like). John On 3/1/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fully agree with Jonathan - the mail lists that have gone to forums I've dropped off. I can check the mail lists quickly, easily, filter as necessary and get what I need without having to sign on and wade through a bunch of posts. If people really want forums setup a forum and let those who want it use it. From: Jonathan Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/03/01 Thu AM 11:20:18 EST To: wine-devel@winehq.org Subject: Re: Forum proposal On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 05:15:03PM +0100, Luis Carlos Busquets Pérez wrote: Instead of having the mailing lists, I think that a forum would increase and facilitate the group working. I could agree less. IMHO a mailing list works well by making sure that everyone gets everything, without them needing to go anywhere to get it. A forum wil immediately disenfranchise all thsoe who have no immediate need to go and visit the forum site every day and so will miss important annoucements and so on. Bad idea. Jonathan
Re: Re: Re: Forum proposal
I understand that for some people the mailing list is a far better thing. May be for some other, a forum is better. Why not having both? Running a forum does not exclude continuing with the mailing lists and could add users and developpers who find more easy coordinate through a forum. Configuring phpBB (www.phpbb.com) does not take more than 1 hour . I have made a try in 30 minutes starting from not knowing anything about this package: http://ns2.ilidium.com:8011/ Why not trying both systems? I fully agree with Jonathan - the mail lists that have gone to forums I've dropped off. I can check the mail lists quickly, easily, filter as necessary and get what I need without having to sign on and wade through a bunch of posts. If people really want forums setup a forum and let those who want it use it. From: Jonathan Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/03/01 Thu AM 11:20:18 EST To: wine-devel@winehq.org Subject: Re: Forum proposal On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 05:15:03PM +0100, Luis Carlos Busquets Pérez wrote: Instead of having the mailing lists, I think that a forum would increase and facilitate the group working. I could agree less. IMHO a mailing list works well by making sure that everyone gets everything, without them needing to go anywhere to get it. A forum wil immediately disenfranchise all thsoe who have no immediate need to go and visit the forum site every day and so will miss important annoucements and so on. Bad idea. Jonathan
Re: Forum proposal
On 01.03.2007 20:09, Luis C. Busquets Pérez wrote: Why not having both? Running a forum does not exclude continuing with the mailing lists and could add users and developpers who find more easy coordinate through a forum. Configuring phpBB (www.phpbb.com) does not take more than 1 hour . I have made a try in 30 minutes starting from not knowing anything about this package: http://ns2.ilidium.com:8011/ Why not trying both systems? Simple. phpBB has had dozens of security holes in the past. Most other forum solutions have had the same share of problems. Now imagine a breakin on a site hosted on winehq. The consequences would be far worse than for the average toy project. Wine depends on people trusting us that the code is legally clean (especially due to various FUD campaigns claiming otherwise). A breakin will always result in claims that the codebase has been polluted with MS code. Such a PR disaster is not something we need. You're of course free to import all mails to this mailing list into your own private forum and make that somehow accessible. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/
Re: Forum proposal
Luis C. Busquets Pérez wrote: I understand that for some people the mailing list is a far better thing. May be for some other, a forum is better. Why not trying both systems? This question has already been answered.. anyway: if you have both a ML and a forum, you effectively split the community into two parts! Nobody will be on both the forum and the ML, it will be harder for the users because they'll have to two places to go to, and it will be harder for the developers because bug-reports will be posted two two different places. tom
Re: Forum proposal
Hello This question has already been answered.. anyway: if you have both a ML and a forum, you effectively split the community into two parts! (...) Well - one could setup a forum-mailing list gateway. -- Best regards Wojciech Arabczyk
Re: Forum proposal
(Score:-1, Flaimbait) Wojciech 'arab' Arabczyk wrote: Well - one could setup a forum-mailing list gateway. Not easily doable due to the nature of SMTP. Also a forum would be completly useless for anything but wine-users... But let's be honest here: Most people who use webforums are too stupid or lazy to set up or use an SMTP/IMAP/NNTP client. And don't get me even started about usability of most forums, especially phpBB and the like. No proper threading but cool animated avatars, ranks and post counts... Yes, there is RForum (and I believe someone actually wrote an SMTP gateway for it) and others but I doubt it would be worth the hassle. And it's not like we are short of bug reports - do we really want to deal with people who will post on a forum but refuse or are unable to sign on at an ML? However - a new web-interface for the ml-archives would be nice (with integrated search, no silly month-splits and... well... a somewhat prettier design IMHO. Gmane is there but I usually end up using google on the winehq archives though... Felix
Re: Forum proposal
Hello (flamines: +10) Most people who use webforums are too stupid or lazy to set up or use an SMTP/IMAP/NNTP client. Can't argue 'bout that. After all i'm just a stupid forum user. But there's one thing with forums that IMVHO mailing-lists can't do. TBMS forums build better comunities than mailing-lists. Mailing lists are just concentrated on the topics, disallowing any OT. With a forum you can easily moderate a on-topic only subforum, allowing people to exchange opinions in other forums. Just my random thoughts 'bout forums. -- Best regards Wojciech Arabczyk
re: Forum proposal
Wojciech wrote: But there's one thing with forums that IMVHO mailing-lists can't do. TBMS forums build better comunities than mailing-lists. Mailing lists are just concentrated on the topics, disallowing any OT. Good. Let's keep it that way. I think we have a great community as it is. If you really want a web interface that makes posting to the mailing list easy, maybe we could get Google Groups to carry wine-devel. It's as close to a nice web interface as you're going to get, I think. The other gateways I've seen between 'forums' and mailing lists all sucked, IMHO. - Dan
Re: Forum proposal
Hello Have you ever logged onto the IRC channels? Their seems to be a healthy community built up around them. Have You ever been on a chann witch 1000+ users? Believe me, that's not a healthy community - it's noize: -- user x joined -- user y parted (loop indefinetly) But i've been on forums with 2k+ users, and they're still readable. Still - i'm not advocating for a forum - a mailing-list is still perfeclty readable as far as i'm concerned. Tho i do know, that many younger people have no clue about mailing lists, or how to even subscribe, on the contrary they can point a browser and easily register/log in on a forum. -- Best regards Wojciech Arabczyk
Re: Forum proposal
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now imagine a breakin on a site hosted on winehq. The consequences would be far worse than for the average toy project. Wine depends on people trusting us that the code is legally clean (especially due to various FUD campaigns claiming otherwise). A breakin will always result in claims that the codebase has been polluted with MS code. You cannot modify the codebase even if you break into the server. Everything in the git repository is authenticated by its SHA-1, so any change would be immediately noticed. -- Alexandre Julliard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Forum proposal
On 01.03.2007 23:25, Alexandre Julliard wrote: Carl-Daniel Hailfinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now imagine a breakin on a site hosted on winehq. The consequences would be far worse than for the average toy project. Wine depends on people trusting us that the code is legally clean (especially due to various FUD campaigns claiming otherwise). A breakin will always result in claims that the codebase has been polluted with MS code. You cannot modify the codebase even if you break into the server. Everything in the git repository is authenticated by its SHA-1, so any change would be immediately noticed. I know about this special feature of git (basically not only every file is identified by its SHA-1 hash, but also the complete timeline and with that the complete repository are secured with SHA-1). There was a post on the linux-kernel list some time ago about this topic. However, in case of a breakin there will always be somebody without this knowledge writing about the breakin. And nobody will read what we have to say about the security of git because the first article has always more readers than any followup or response. Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/
Re: Forum proposal
But there's one thing with forums that IMVHO mailing-lists can't do. TBMS forums build better comunities than mailing-lists. Mailing lists are just concentrated on the topics, disallowing any OT. With a forum you can easily moderate a on-topic only subforum, allowing people to exchange opinions in other forums. Have you ever logged onto the IRC channels? Their seems to be a healthy community built up around them. --Matt Finnicum (aka 'murph')
