Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I have to disagree with the below. There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as one might think from his description. Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to ap's to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that version changes are huge. When going from a V2 OS setup to a V3, There were huge changes in the OS that took lots of testing and many adjustments to our system. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 12/9/2008 9:59 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the technical end. I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Josh Luthman wrote: Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I have to disagree with the below. There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as one might think from his description. Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to ap's to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that version changes are huge. When going from a V2 OS setup to a V3, There were huge changes in the OS that took lots of testing and many adjustments to our system. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (wasCisco VLAN help)
Actually that is a good point. I do not believe MT has Multi-processor support, unless it was added recently. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (wasCisco VLAN help) One question I really would love to hear the answer to.. What version of 3.x are you using (if any) on those multi core/processor Mikrotiks? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't want to hijack Travis's Cisco thread, but wanted to throw in my .02 regarding MikroTik as a core router. We began running MikroTik as a core router sometime back in 2004 when our Cisco VXR DS3 router started to struggle. We purchased a couple LMC DS3 NICs from Eje at Wisp-Router and haven't looked back since. It was better than three years ago when we bench tested more than 800Mbps between MikroTik routers using older Intel Pro fiber NICs and standard 32bit PCI slots. Over the years we have deployed numerous MikroTik routers with 24 or more 10/100 Interfaces, and several MikroTik routers with multiple Intel GigE Copper and Fiber Interfaces. Today our MikroTik routers have evolved to include motherboards with multiple PCIe x8 x16 lane expansion slots, Quad core CPUs, 2Gig RAM, redundant hot-swap power supplies and multiple six port SFP NICs. This latest generation of MikroTik router we are deploying are extremely fast, flexible, cost effective and most importantly reliable. The SFP NICs allow us to easily swap Interfaces from Copper GigE to SX fiber, LX fiber, ZX Fiber...all hot-swap without requiring the router to be powered down or rebooted. The power supplies are diverse and redundant. We can lose either power feed or power module or any combination of the two and still keep the router powered up. We are currently peering with three GigE upstream providers with a fourth GigE provider being turned up this week for unprecedented capacity and diversity for an ISP our size. We are already exploring and evaluating 10GigE Interfaces as our requirements continue to increase. We have no reason to believe the MikroTik platform will not continue to deliver the exceptional performance we have become accustomed to. Every client gets a MikroTik CPE router that we own and manage regardless of the medium used (microwave, copper, fiber etc.) to deliver their data circuit. A MikroTik as a client CPE router gives us terrific flexibility and diagnostic abilities. MikroTik allows us to provide the detailed information required to identify and resolve problems at the client side quickly and efficiently. We have made countless IT Guys heroes in the eyes of their employers more times than I care to remember. grin I firmly believe we would not be where we are today, offering the level of service we are able to provide without MikroTik at the core of our network. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help We are using HP Carrier Servers on our Core, Dual Xenon 2.8 Ghz, Dual PS, 2 GB Intel Nics with 3 PCIX 3 Port GB Cards for a total of 14 ports per Router Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help I answer with a question. What makes you think they couldn't do 100 megs? I believe the original PowerRouter series does 5.9 gigabits and the latest series does 8 gigabits. I don't know how strong Mikrotik's VPLS offering is, but from what I've heard, VPLS is the way to go. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:13 P To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help How can you possibly get 100 megs with Mikrotik? On 12/9/08, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the THEY ARE PAYING FOR IT! :) Nothing wrong with that. You should be able to do that with some high end MTs and EoIP Tunnels though :) -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik
Re: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them
Yes, 5830 AP is the latest AP. But FOX 5580 and 5800 are the latest CPE versions. Its the sub $300 CPE. 5830 as a CPE was designed to be a Top Quality CPE of its time, and was competiive proced for CPEs of that time. It was kept for those WISPs that demanded teh high quality design CPE. But that was ages ago, and tiems change. To reach competive pricing for current day, they designed the Fox line which is a 1/3 the price, and supports larger antenna sizes. It was the product designed to stack up to MTs When you are talking about 5830SU-ext, you are absolutely correct, that model is NOT cost compettive to the Mikrotik. But you need to consider all teh facts. That 5830, was design to house a Dual pol antenna, it has heatsinks embedded into the case, it has passthrough tat are easy to accommodate your cable in a secure way, they have expensive filters bulit into the MB, they have thick Metal for high F/B ratios for theere antenna sizes. And it was designed to be cosmetically pleasing for installs. It wasn;t designed to be inexpensive. I find it very hard to justifying to buy 5830 new today. We'll only do it, if we know we need a high end PTP antenna such as a Pac Wireless 28dbi. The 5580 outperforms the 5830 today. However, to keep it apples to apples, you must add the $40 Behive antenna (which adds over 10db to the antenna) for a total of 18db antenna gain equivellent to the 5830, or you use it with the dish ($50) for 25db. The Atlas/Fox lines are all sub $300. (including antennas if you buy right, although list price is more) . Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them I am using 5830 products - is this not the latest point to multipoint product Trango has to offer (in the 5.8 band)? The only possible reasons you could get that spread was if you were not comparing equivellent anntennas or doing something wrong, or had a bad batch of radios, or something, but it was not inline with the capabilty of the product. *Using 5830AP and 5830S SU (non-ext), to my knowledge you're stuck with the panel for the AP but the SU you can use an external antenna but for a mere 7mi that didn't seem worth it. I believe there were 2 radios on that customer's grain bin before the MT AP was up, but I could be wrong. It was installed years before my time.* You can;t jsut ignore that Trango offers a 24dbi antenna (Fox) stock for its under $350 price tag. Thats part of it's value proposition. You could argue that you don;t like Dishes, but that is not what you said. If you test Trango 5830 that is a 18db antenna, and you must also use a 18db antenna with the MT, for a fair comparison, which the 5830 ext can accommodate. *I can see the arguement of the stock 18db antenna versus 23db MT antenna, however I've yet to see where I can get a 5830S-EXT for anything less then $500 (I'm only seeing the Trango website's price). Keep in mind the MT setup I am using is $220. Can you tell me where to find these Fox units for $350? I am also interested in knowing if anyone has had good success with the Fox product line as I certainly have not. I have only seen three or four of them on a tower way north of where our network lives, unsure of their purpose.* Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:00 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Josh, I did not mean to be disrespectful in my comments, but some of the information that you posted was not factual, and was misleading. You compared the older and most expesnive trango (because itwas old technology) with the Newest less expensive Mikrotik. That is not apples to apples. t minimum you should be comparingthe latest generation of each product line. It was sorta like me saying, all Alvarions are expensive because they have $1500 CPEs (which they do), without disclosing the fact that Alvarion also has a $350 CPE (which they do)designed to compete for WISP's business. Second, the RSSI levels that you represented were impossible if you were doing apples to apples comparison. Trango and MT have mPCI cards that transmit at just about the same TX power. (Trango 22db). The only possible reasons you could get that spread was if you were not comparing equivellent anntennas or doing something wrong, or had a bad batch of radios, or something, but it was not inline with the capabilty of the product. You can;t jsut ignore that Trango offers a 24dbi antenna (Fox) stock for its under $350 price tag. Thats part of it's value proposition. You could argue that you don;t like Dishes, but that is not what
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (wasCisco VLAN help)
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 03:18 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Actually that is a good point. I do not believe MT has Multi-processor support, unless it was added recently. Depends on what you call recent...from the changelog: What's new in v3.0beta1: *) added initial support for SMP on x86; -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Let me explain MT enables everything to be done through an easy graphical interface. In other words no need to remember syntax. In StarOS, to configure advanced features, from the menu you open up a script page, and then manually writing text commands. StarOS has little documetnations, MT has very complete documentation. From that perspective MT is easy, and StarOS is hard. However, there is another angle. What if you don't really want to use all those custom advanced features? MT's interface is really somewhat overwelming. There is too much there, designed for the super tech. StarOS on the other hand, has a Mouse clickable menu (NOt a windows GUI, more like a DOS version of a window) that is well organized, and easy to spot and access the feature that you want to configure. The core feature that you want to configure (such as wireless settings) are all complete with easy checkboxes. With StarOS I spend lesss time hunting for the menu item I want to use. For example, when StarOS starts, by default on the main screen you see your wireless connections and the RSSI and Noise for each. You don;t have to click anything to get to that place, its just right there. Then if you press F1, (a single key) you now have a view of all your subscribers and their RSSIs and link Qualities. So basically in seconds, you are viewing menaingful information on your active connections. When you go to configure wireless, all the core features you will change are all on one screen, in one place. And because it is SSH accessed, it can be done from anywhere anytime, and it is lightnig fast to navigate the menu.. From that perspective StarOS is the more easy. MT is very feature rich, if not the most feature rich. With options, comes choice. And where there is choice there is greater complexity, and greater chance of error. When we first started using MT, techs always had to go look at another MT router already configured to remember how to configure it the way that was our standard to do so. It was harder to remember, and required more training. Once we learned it, it was easy, but it had a longer learnign curve. With StarOS, we are not driven to use all the options. It could be argued that I am not being fair, because we don't use StarOS complex features, to report how hard they are or aren;t to use. STAROS also has made much automatic. For example, WDS bridging is 100% automatic, and requires no customization. Its senses whether to treat the CPE as a wifi station or a WDS true bridge. And does it well. Thats why even though WDS took more processing power, we chose to use Bridging anyway. It was jsut easy, and we could operate it just like a dumb bridge, like a Trango or Canopy. But the primary reason we used StarOS, is they generally were the fist to out out a key features that we were looking for. For example they did 5 Mhz channels first. possibly first to support 533Mhz board. Because we always ahve been a company to jump first on new useful features, we quickly jumped on StarOS. Then we somewhat get locked into it at those regions we deployed it. Today, MT is offering so many improvements, its pretty hard to beat. Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that slows our troubleshooting. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the technical end. I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT does. I
Re: [WISPA] OT: FCC investigation.
I read quite a bit of it, but gave up when I found it both boring and tedious. Martin's major crime is being a Republican. Expect that in the next few months, that will be considered criminal and prosecutable, as a concerted effort will be made to personally destroy every appointee they can. Yes, it's off topic and sadly, the next appointee will very much not be amenable to our needs. The operative words will be Control and Money. As in, regulatory control and raising money :( And that's not partisan, it's just a predicable federal reaction to wanting money. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: [WISPA] OT: FCC investigation. For immediate release: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 Contact: Jodi Seth/Dingell, 202-225-5735 // Nick Choate/Stupak, 202-225-4735 Committee Releases Staff Report on Findings of FCC Investigation Washington, DC - Reps. John D. Dingell (D-MI), Chairman of the Committee on Energy and Commerce, and Bart Stupak (D-MI), Chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, today released a Committee on Energy and Commerce Majority Staff report detailing the findings of the Committee's bipartisan investigation relating to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Our investigation confirmed a number of troubling allegations raised by individuals in and outside the FCC, Stupak said. The Committee staff report details some of the most egregious abuses of power, suppression of information and manipulation of data under Chairman Martin's leadership. It is my hope that this report will serve as a roadmap for a fair, open and efficient FCC under new leadership in the next administration. Any of these findings, individually, are cause for concern, said Dingell. Together, the findings suggest that, in recent years, the FCC has operated in a dysfunctional manner and Commission business has suffered as a result. It is my hope that the new FCC Chairman will find this report instructive and that it will prove useful in helping the Commission avoid making the same mistakes. The report, titled Deception and Distrust: The Federal Communications Commission Under Chairman Kevin J. Martin, is the culmination of a bipartisan investigation into the FCC's regulatory processes and management practices that was formally launched on January 8, 2008. Read the Report (pdf) http://energycommerce.house.gov/images/stories/Documents/PDF/Newsroom/fcc%20majority%20staff%20report%20081209.pdf http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1455Itemid=1 Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (was Cisco VLAN help)
Most all of our x86 MikroTik routers are running v2.9.46, but we do have a few running v3.16. Yes, we did see the fast clock issue on versions 3.15, but it has not caused any of our routers to crash. They just had a fast clock. Version 3.16 is supposed to resolve that problem, but we have still seen the fast clock happen even with v3.16. We typically don't upgrade MikroTik versions unless there is a feature we are looking for that current running version doesn't have or the version has a specific bug that affects what we are trying to accomplish. We still have x86 routers running v2.8 in some locations simply because we haven't needed to upgrade for any reason. No reason to fix something that isn't broken. grin Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (was Cisco VLAN help) One question I really would love to hear the answer to.. What version of 3.x are you using (if any) on those multi core/processor Mikrotiks? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't want to hijack Travis's Cisco thread, but wanted to throw in my .02 regarding MikroTik as a core router. We began running MikroTik as a core router sometime back in 2004 when our Cisco VXR DS3 router started to struggle. We purchased a couple LMC DS3 NICs from Eje at Wisp-Router and haven't looked back since. It was better than three years ago when we bench tested more than 800Mbps between MikroTik routers using older Intel Pro fiber NICs and standard 32bit PCI slots. Over the years we have deployed numerous MikroTik routers with 24 or more 10/100 Interfaces, and several MikroTik routers with multiple Intel GigE Copper and Fiber Interfaces. Today our MikroTik routers have evolved to include motherboards with multiple PCIe x8 x16 lane expansion slots, Quad core CPUs, 2Gig RAM, redundant hot-swap power supplies and multiple six port SFP NICs. This latest generation of MikroTik router we are deploying are extremely fast, flexible, cost effective and most importantly reliable. The SFP NICs allow us to easily swap Interfaces from Copper GigE to SX fiber, LX fiber, ZX Fiber...all hot-swap without requiring the router to be powered down or rebooted. The power supplies are diverse and redundant. We can lose either power feed or power module or any combination of the two and still keep the router powered up. We are currently peering with three GigE upstream providers with a fourth GigE provider being turned up this week for unprecedented capacity and diversity for an ISP our size. We are already exploring and evaluating 10GigE Interfaces as our requirements continue to increase. We have no reason to believe the MikroTik platform will not continue to deliver the exceptional performance we have become accustomed to. Every client gets a MikroTik CPE router that we own and manage regardless of the medium used (microwave, copper, fiber etc.) to deliver their data circuit. A MikroTik as a client CPE router gives us terrific flexibility and diagnostic abilities. MikroTik allows us to provide the detailed information required to identify and resolve problems at the client side quickly and efficiently. We have made countless IT Guys heroes in the eyes of their employers more times than I care to remember. grin I firmly believe we would not be where we are today, offering the level of service we are able to provide without MikroTik at the core of our network. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help We are using HP Carrier Servers on our Core, Dual Xenon 2.8 Ghz, Dual PS, 2 GB Intel Nics with 3 PCIX 3 Port GB Cards for a total of 14 ports per Router Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help I answer with a question. What makes you think they couldn't do 100 megs? I believe the original PowerRouter series does 5.9 gigabits and the latest series does 8 gigabits. I don't know how strong Mikrotik's VPLS offering is, but from what I've heard, VPLS is the way to go. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From:
Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help
Not sure; I know it can be done on the 3560s. I think it is just an IOS feature. -Matt On Dec 9, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: Matt, This is for the 3550 right ... Cant be done on the 2950's? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help Just be careful if they want to do there own VLANs. If they do you will need to dot1q tunnel them. Cisco has made it easy in that all you have to do in addition to what you do now with a single VLAN is add the switchport dot1q tunnel command to their interface on either side. The VLAN stack takes another 4 bytes so you will need to raise your backbone's MTU to at least 1504 to support your customer running a 1500 MTU. -Matt On Dec 9, 2008, at 7:47 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Normally that is what we do... using Cisco ASA firewalls and setting up VPN tunnels for the customers... however, this particular customer needs the full 100Mbps between the ports and transparent transport... and they are paying for it... :) Travis Microserv Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs wrote: Just a FYI, I would just create a tunnel between the two sites. No configuration on your backend network, bandwidth restrictions are the same as internet traffic typically, etc. Simpler, and no loop issues. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Travis Johnson wrote: Ok... found the original problem... a few switches did not have the vlan setup in the vlan database. So the VLAN is up and working now... but the problem is because we have a ring, we use Spanning Tree to keep from having a loop in the network. But when we bring up the VLAN, the spanning-tree does not start blocking the VLAN traffic. It does block the normal VLAN1 traffic (like it always has), but the new VLAN never gets blocked, so it creates a loop around the ring. Am I missing something? I've checked the settings and can't find anything that I missed to make it work... Travis Microserv Eric Rogers wrote: Try a show interface fastethernet x/y switchport and see what is the status of the port and that trunking VLANs enabled are also trunking VLANs active. Eric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help Hi, By default, when doing the switchport mode trunk, all VLAN's are allowed (I even issued the command switchport trunk allowed vlan all and it did not display on the sho conf afterward). Travis Microserv Patrick Shoemaker wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I need some Cisco switch VLAN help. I currently have about 60 Cisco 3500 series switches connected via the GBIC ports all in a ring configuration with spanning tree. I am trying to setup a VLAN for a customer between two of the FastEthernet ports so they can connect their offices. I have port 5 on each switch setup in VLAN105 and every GBIC port on all the switches setup as trunking ports. There are 17 other cisco switches between these two. I have this setup between two other offices, but they are directly connected to each other, with no other switches in between. What am I missing? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Is each trunk port in the path set to forward the VLAN with command: switchport trunk allowed vlan xxx A sh int for an example trunk and access port would be handy. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help
Is there are switch where you accidently connected VLAN 150 to VLAN 1? For example, a VLAN 150 access port connected to the default VLAN of another switch. You may want to apply BDPU filters to certain ports to segment the network until you track down the issue. Any port with a BDPU filter will disable spanning tree between the interconnected switches on that port. -Matt On Dec 9, 2008, at 10:12 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Ok. When I bring the ring back up, the switch we have running spanning tree changes VLAN1 to blocking on one port, but the VLAN150 still shows forwarding... and creates a loop on VLAN150. Where do I start? I'm not sure what to even look for or how to troubleshoot this? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Check and see if you are running PVST, which runs spanning tree on each VLAN. -Matt On Dec 9, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: Ok... found the original problem... a few switches did not have the vlan setup in the vlan database. So the VLAN is up and working now... but the problem is because we have a ring, we use Spanning Tree to keep from having a loop in the network. But when we bring up the VLAN, the spanning-tree does not start blocking the VLAN traffic. It does block the normal VLAN1 traffic (like it always has), but the new VLAN never gets blocked, so it creates a loop around the ring. Am I missing something? I've checked the settings and can't find anything that I missed to make it work... Travis Microserv Eric Rogers wrote: Try a show interface fastethernet x/y switchport and see what is the status of the port and that trunking VLANs enabled are also trunking VLANs active. Eric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help Hi, By default, when doing the switchport mode trunk, all VLAN's are allowed (I even issued the command switchport trunk allowed vlan all and it did not display on the sho conf afterward). Travis Microserv Patrick Shoemaker wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I need some Cisco switch VLAN help. I currently have about 60 Cisco 3500 series switches connected via the GBIC ports all in a ring configuration with spanning tree. I am trying to setup a VLAN for a customer between two of the FastEthernet ports so they can connect their offices. I have port 5 on each switch setup in VLAN105 and every GBIC port on all the switches setup as trunking ports. There are 17 other cisco switches between these two. I have this setup between two other offices, but they are directly connected to each other, with no other switches in between. What am I missing? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Is each trunk port in the path set to forward the VLAN with command: switchport trunk allowed vlan xxx A sh int for an example trunk and access port would be handy. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Tom DeReggi wrote: snip Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that slows our troubleshooting. Hi TomI've been able to open two winboxes from the same pc if not more. Also, if you use the dude this can be done easily. Take care leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Odd I never seen a problem running multiple winboxes on the same pc. There even been time where I been logged in more then two times to the same router with winbox. Had more then 10 winboxes running at the same time. Personally I very much the MT CLI interface much more then the StarOS menu driven system. The CLI give you assist with all command to build firewall rules, queue rules etc while the editor function in StarOS isn't IMO very helpful there. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:08:45 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Let me explain MT enables everything to be done through an easy graphical interface. In other words no need to remember syntax. In StarOS, to configure advanced features, from the menu you open up a script page, and then manually writing text commands. StarOS has little documetnations, MT has very complete documentation. From that perspective MT is easy, and StarOS is hard. However, there is another angle. What if you don't really want to use all those custom advanced features? MT's interface is really somewhat overwelming. There is too much there, designed for the super tech. StarOS on the other hand, has a Mouse clickable menu (NOt a windows GUI, more like a DOS version of a window) that is well organized, and easy to spot and access the feature that you want to configure. The core feature that you want to configure (such as wireless settings) are all complete with easy checkboxes. With StarOS I spend lesss time hunting for the menu item I want to use. For example, when StarOS starts, by default on the main screen you see your wireless connections and the RSSI and Noise for each. You don;t have to click anything to get to that place, its just right there. Then if you press F1, (a single key) you now have a view of all your subscribers and their RSSIs and link Qualities. So basically in seconds, you are viewing menaingful information on your active connections. When you go to configure wireless, all the core features you will change are all on one screen, in one place. And because it is SSH accessed, it can be done from anywhere anytime, and it is lightnig fast to navigate the menu.. From that perspective StarOS is the more easy. MT is very feature rich, if not the most feature rich. With options, comes choice. And where there is choice there is greater complexity, and greater chance of error. When we first started using MT, techs always had to go look at another MT router already configured to remember how to configure it the way that was our standard to do so. It was harder to remember, and required more training. Once we learned it, it was easy, but it had a longer learnign curve. With StarOS, we are not driven to use all the options. It could be argued that I am not being fair, because we don't use StarOS complex features, to report how hard they are or aren;t to use. STAROS also has made much automatic. For example, WDS bridging is 100% automatic, and requires no customization. Its senses whether to treat the CPE as a wifi station or a WDS true bridge. And does it well. Thats why even though WDS took more processing power, we chose to use Bridging anyway. It was jsut easy, and we could operate it just like a dumb bridge, like a Trango or Canopy. But the primary reason we used StarOS, is they generally were the fist to out out a key features that we were looking for. For example they did 5 Mhz channels first. possibly first to support 533Mhz board. Because we always ahve been a company to jump first on new useful features, we quickly jumped on StarOS. Then we somewhat get locked into it at those regions we deployed it. Today, MT is offering so many improvements, its pretty hard to beat. Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that slows our troubleshooting. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (wasCisco VLAN help)
Correct. The v3.x x86 routers we have running do show multiple CPUs. For example we have a handful of 1U servers with dual Xeon 3GHz CPUs deployed as CPE routers for a few new larger accounts and they show four processors. We are running BGP with these accounts and the additional CPU support does make a notable difference. For example with a single CPU processor count the Winbox GUI will show 100% CPU utilization while pulling the approximately 270k routes. With a two CPU count the utilization while pulling down full tables is 50% and with a four CPU count the utilization is 25%. This chart shows the dual Xeon 3GHz CPU at 1113. Our most recent x86 MikroTik routers are using the Q9550 CPU at 4076 and the X3360 CPU that rates at 4251. http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (wasCisco VLAN help) On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 03:18 -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Actually that is a good point. I do not believe MT has Multi-processor support, unless it was added recently. Depends on what you call recent...from the changelog: What's new in v3.0beta1: *) added initial support for SMP on x86; -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (was Cisco VLAN help)
I have an Intel Q9550 processor running v3.13 right now. Works perfectly for 100 days of uptime so far. Travis Microserv Josh Luthman wrote: One question I really would love to hear the answer to.. What version of 3.x are you using (if any) on those multi core/processor Mikrotiks? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't want to hijack Travis's Cisco thread, but wanted to throw in my .02 regarding MikroTik as a core router. We began running MikroTik as a core router sometime back in 2004 when our Cisco VXR DS3 router started to struggle. We purchased a couple LMC DS3 NICs from Eje at Wisp-Router and haven't looked back since. It was better than three years ago when we bench tested more than 800Mbps between MikroTik routers using older Intel Pro fiber NICs and standard 32bit PCI slots. Over the years we have deployed numerous MikroTik routers with 24 or more 10/100 Interfaces, and several MikroTik routers with multiple Intel GigE Copper and Fiber Interfaces. Today our MikroTik routers have evolved to include motherboards with multiple PCIe x8 x16 lane expansion slots, Quad core CPUs, 2Gig RAM, redundant hot-swap power supplies and multiple six port SFP NICs. This latest generation of MikroTik router we are deploying are extremely fast, flexible, cost effective and most importantly reliable. The SFP NICs allow us to easily swap Interfaces from Copper GigE to SX fiber, LX fiber, ZX Fiber...all hot-swap without requiring the router to be powered down or rebooted. The power supplies are diverse and redundant. We can lose either power feed or power module or any combination of the two and still keep the router powered up. We are currently peering with three GigE upstream providers with a fourth GigE provider being turned up this week for unprecedented capacity and diversity for an ISP our size. We are already exploring and evaluating 10GigE Interfaces as our requirements continue to increase. We have no reason to believe the MikroTik platform will not continue to deliver the exceptional performance we have become accustomed to. Every client gets a MikroTik CPE router that we own and manage regardless of the medium used (microwave, copper, fiber etc.) to deliver their data circuit. A MikroTik as a client CPE router gives us terrific flexibility and diagnostic abilities. MikroTik allows us to provide the detailed information required to identify and resolve problems at the client side quickly and efficiently. We have made countless "IT Guys" heroes in the eyes of their employers more times than I care to remember. grin I firmly believe we would not be where we are today, offering the level of service we are able to provide without MikroTik at the core of our network. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help We are using HP Carrier Servers on our Core, Dual Xenon 2.8 Ghz, Dual PS, 2 GB Intel Nics with 3 PCIX 3 Port GB Cards for a total of 14 ports per Router Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help I answer with a question. What makes you think they couldn't do 100 megs? I believe the original PowerRouter series does 5.9 gigabits and the latest series does 8 gigabits. I don't know how strong Mikrotik's VPLS offering is, but from what I've heard, VPLS is the way to go. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Josh Luthman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:13 P To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help How can you possibly get 100 megs with Mikrotik? On 12/9/08, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the "THEY ARE PAYING FOR IT"! :) Nothing wrong with that. You should be able to do that with some high end MTs and EoIP Tunnels though :) -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Travis
Re: [WISPA] BitTorrent to go UDP in next release
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactive_network_Provider_Participation_for_P2P P4P is trying to do something very much like that. Lots of issues to work out as yet. P2P will evolve but likely will be a mix of P2P/P4P. I know I would love to have a P2P cache box to ease/defray the load (off peak, priority, etc) but the legality of such is questionable. Matt wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/05/richard_bennett_bittorrent_udp/ Would it not make sense for bittorrrent clients to have a preference to share with users under the same AS number? Would not help much on last mile but might on Internet backbone. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 03:00 -0500, Josh Luthman wrote: Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. StarOS is a simple OS to learn. It's not that hard because there's not a lot to it. It is very useful for wireless deployments. It can do iptables and has some basic troubleshooting tools as well. Get much beyond that and the OS is simply not capable. As was pointed out, though, the wireless drivers are really it's strongest point. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
As I stated in my earlier post. I think that StarOS is a Solid Option. I am a fairly new startup WISP. I started by expanding an existing distant wisps network in our county. They had 1 tower with 20 clients. I have taken it over and have expanded it and have over 300 clients in a short time. I paid them to help build out my network with all StarOS for backhaul and AP's because of their existing knowledge and experience. I paid them to help manage the network and we did all the Client installs and support. We had an issue that we were having way to much noise at one tower and needed to change to XR2's for better filtering. The V2 Wrap boards would not handle the XR2 so we installed new War2 Boards with StarOS V3. We got the new boards working in Minutes but then none of our clients VPNs would work everything else worked great. Then the engineer for my supplier quit so I was the new engineer forced to troubleshoot these problems myself. Yes I was new to StarOS but have been a computer specialist and network installer for 15 years. I spent 3 weeks on the StarOS support forum Trying everything they told me. I change client CPE 3 times, tried a VDS setup, and endured being told by the programmers/forum support to go out of business and let a real company take over my clients. That was when I said screw them and had tower climber come back and put in Mikrotik AP boards. Put the original CPE back at the clients and they were up and going in minutes. Yes I have had to deal with the Mikrotik/Tranzeo disconnect issue but that has now been resolved. They just work and since then all my APs have been Mikrotik. I love winbox I love the layout. We have stayed with StarOS War boards for backhaul. Those are my experiences. Again if you are a old command line guy and love scripting then StarOS maybe your bag. I am a GUI kind of Guy. MT are just easier and I have so many more people I can call for support any day. With StarOS NOT ONE. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I have to disagree with the below. There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as one might think from his description. Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to ap's to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Sam if you find good documentation other then the forums please let the rest of us know. I would love it. Maybe some of you StarOS gurus out there should offer a training class. I know at least 3 guys that would love to have one. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the technical end. I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Josh Luthman wrote: Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I have to disagree with the below. There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as one might think from his description. Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to ap's to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Steve Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that version changes are huge.
Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help
You made it into an MT email over night! I can forward to you if you didn't get it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help Well, we can... But we only use them as POP routers We have a couple with Metro Ethernet Fiber Backhauls running 100 mbps to our Core facility, doing MPLS / VPLS ... No wireless stuff, we are a Moto shop Those are RB1000 btw ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help How can you possibly get 100 megs with Mikrotik? On 12/9/08, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the THEY ARE PAYING FOR IT! :) Nothing wrong with that. You should be able to do that with some high end MTs and EoIP Tunnels though :) -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Normally that is what we do... using Cisco ASA firewalls and setting up VPN tunnels for the customers... however, this particular customer needs the full 100Mbps between the ports and transparent transport... and they are paying for it... :) Travis Microserv Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs wrote: Just a FYI, I would just create a tunnel between the two sites. No configuration on your backend network, bandwidth restrictions are the same as internet traffic typically, etc. Simpler, and no loop issues. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Travis Johnson wrote: Ok... found the original problem... a few switches did not have the vlan setup in the vlan database. So the VLAN is up and working now... but the problem is because we have a ring, we use Spanning Tree to keep from having a loop in the network. But when we bring up the VLAN, the spanning-tree does not start blocking the VLAN traffic. It does block the normal VLAN1 traffic (like it always has), but the new VLAN never gets blocked, so it creates a loop around the ring. Am I missing something? I've checked the settings and can't find anything that I missed to make it work... Travis Microserv Eric Rogers wrote: Try a show interface fastethernet x/y switchport and see what is the status of the port and that trunking VLANs enabled are also trunking VLANs active. Eric From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 5:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help Hi, By default, when doing the switchport mode trunk, all VLAN's are allowed (I even issued the command switchport trunk allowed vlan all and it did not display on the sho conf afterward). Travis Microserv Patrick Shoemaker wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I need some Cisco switch VLAN help. I currently have about 60 Cisco 3500 series switches connected via the GBIC ports all in a ring configuration with spanning tree. I am trying to setup a VLAN for a customer between two of the FastEthernet ports so they can connect their offices. I have port 5 on each switch setup in VLAN105 and every GBIC port on all the switches setup as trunking ports. There are 17 other cisco switches between these two. I have this setup between two other offices, but they are directly connected to each other, with no other switches in between. What am I missing? Travis Microserv -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Is each trunk port in the path set to forward the VLAN with command: switchport trunk allowed vlan xxx A sh int for an example trunk and access port would be handy. --
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (was CiscoVLAN help)
You made it into an MT email over night! I can forward to you if you didn't get it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brad Belton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] MikroTik Multi-GigE and greater throughput... (was CiscoVLAN help) I didn't want to hijack Travis's Cisco thread, but wanted to throw in my .02 regarding MikroTik as a core router. We began running MikroTik as a core router sometime back in 2004 when our Cisco VXR DS3 router started to struggle. We purchased a couple LMC DS3 NICs from Eje at Wisp-Router and haven't looked back since. It was better than three years ago when we bench tested more than 800Mbps between MikroTik routers using older Intel Pro fiber NICs and standard 32bit PCI slots. Over the years we have deployed numerous MikroTik routers with 24 or more 10/100 Interfaces, and several MikroTik routers with multiple Intel GigE Copper and Fiber Interfaces. Today our MikroTik routers have evolved to include motherboards with multiple PCIe x8 x16 lane expansion slots, Quad core CPUs, 2Gig RAM, redundant hot-swap power supplies and multiple six port SFP NICs. This latest generation of MikroTik router we are deploying are extremely fast, flexible, cost effective and most importantly reliable. The SFP NICs allow us to easily swap Interfaces from Copper GigE to SX fiber, LX fiber, ZX Fiber...all hot-swap without requiring the router to be powered down or rebooted. The power supplies are diverse and redundant. We can lose either power feed or power module or any combination of the two and still keep the router powered up. We are currently peering with three GigE upstream providers with a fourth GigE provider being turned up this week for unprecedented capacity and diversity for an ISP our size. We are already exploring and evaluating 10GigE Interfaces as our requirements continue to increase. We have no reason to believe the MikroTik platform will not continue to deliver the exceptional performance we have become accustomed to. Every client gets a MikroTik CPE router that we own and manage regardless of the medium used (microwave, copper, fiber etc.) to deliver their data circuit. A MikroTik as a client CPE router gives us terrific flexibility and diagnostic abilities. MikroTik allows us to provide the detailed information required to identify and resolve problems at the client side quickly and efficiently. We have made countless IT Guys heroes in the eyes of their employers more times than I care to remember. grin I firmly believe we would not be where we are today, offering the level of service we are able to provide without MikroTik at the core of our network. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:42 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help We are using HP Carrier Servers on our Core, Dual Xenon 2.8 Ghz, Dual PS, 2 GB Intel Nics with 3 PCIX 3 Port GB Cards for a total of 14 ports per Router Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help I answer with a question. What makes you think they couldn't do 100 megs? I believe the original PowerRouter series does 5.9 gigabits and the latest series does 8 gigabits. I don't know how strong Mikrotik's VPLS offering is, but from what I've heard, VPLS is the way to go. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:13 P To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cisco VLAN help How can you possibly get 100 megs with Mikrotik? On 12/9/08, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the THEY ARE PAYING FOR IT! :) Nothing wrong with that. You should be able to do that with some high end MTs and EoIP Tunnels though :) -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Normally that is what we do... using Cisco ASA firewalls and setting up VPN tunnels for the customers... however, this particular customer needs the full 100Mbps between the ports and
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
A quick and handy feature is a config file which can be uploaded and pretty much configures everything. I set up my cpe and then downloaded the file. After that point, uploading that file does a full configure of my CPE, including firewall, CBQ, NAT, etc. The file is unique per hardware platform, but only takes moments to upload. You could even have one for 2.4, 5 and 900, which would let you fully configure a cpe (including password!) in 10 seconds. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] survey says
Redline2860.29% Alvarion40304.02% Ubiquity20782.07% Canopy4486744.78% Other95269.51% Trango1147211.45% Tranzeo1317913.15% MT1476614.74% Total100204100.00% Responses98 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The fastest ISPs in America.. And only WildBlue was mentioned as wireless???
Hi Jeremy, Thanks for the note back! I hope my frustrated peers haven't been too hard on you :-). I've also cc'd the public WISPA mailing list so that folks see what you've had to say. I can tell you that my company (coverage map here: www.accima.com) is over 600 subs now. We compete against other WISPs, cable, DSL, FTTH or, sometimes, all of the above, in all of our populated coverage areas. Near as I can tell out here, there is a roughly 40 to 50% take rate across all available technologies including Sat. The small towns only have DSL in town, not around town so WISP or Sat. coverage is the only option for those folks. As for overall customer base, we don't really have a good way to tell. Here's what I do know though: Back in 2005 or 2006 WISPA contacted the main 5 or so vendors in the industry. Distributors of hardware, not just manufacturers. It took some doing, but we were finally able to browbeat them into giving us the number of operators that they counted as WISPs. That total was 12,000. We then assumed a 75% overlap (operators buying product from more than one vendor at some point) and came up with 3000 WISPs in operation. The FCC has accepted that number as a much more realistic estimate than their own Form 477's data. At the time I think that the 477 showed around 400 WISPs. Next WISPA called the main manufacturers that built hardware for the industry. At the time that would have been Aperto, Trango, Alvarion, Motorola and for WiFi, Smartbridges. Each was asked how many devices they had sold into the US market in the last 48 months (conservative hardware lifespan estimate). As I recall that totaled up to about 750,000 units, of which 75,000 or 80,000 was smartBridges (WiFi) gear. I'm VERY confident in the methodology used to determine those numbers. They were, by design, quite conservative. You see, *I* am the one that made those phone calls back in '05 or '06. It was important to NOT over estimate the number of WISPs or our subscriber bases because no one would believe it. Estimates at the time ranged as high as 10,000 WISPs in the USA alone. After my data was released it was pointed out that the company with the highest number of WISP operators was actually likely to be the real number of WISPs as they could not really have any overlap. The most WISPs that a company showed on the books was 6,000. Because of that I personally think that there are between 3,000 and 5,000 active WISPs, at least at the time. Here's where a bit of Kentucky windage comes in though. I was only able to get CPE (customer premise equipment) sales figures from a few companies. And I only got a SMALL sample of WiFi gear (didn't even try to get Lucent/Agere/Orinico's numbers because they sold to everyone and wouldn't always know who was a WISP). Yet WiFi based WISPs account for roughly 50% of the market. At the time we used that as a basis for our claim that there were 1,000,000 to 1,200,000 WISP customers in the USA. At the time that informal study was done, I had under or just barely over 300 subs. Now we've easily doubled in size. Not just installed gear, but current customers. My network is over 90% WiFi based, as are 4 of the 6 competitors around me in my Grant County area alone. Today there may well be fewer WISPs (not many new startups going on from what I can tell) out there, but I know of NO customer bases that aren't still serviced. If a company goes away someone either takes over or buys the customers. Because of this, I happen to think that the estimate if 2M WISP subscribers is very realistic. Probably on the low side. However, because so few WISPs actually fill out the FCC Form 477 it's hard to set that number in stone or to give a % of service estimate. One thing that's surprising me is the rate of people that are dropping DSL in favor of my wireless. It's still a small number but it's been ticking up quickly in the last couple of months. I figured it would happen, just didn't know when. We've already seen people NOT put phone service into their new homes or rented apartments. So we're picking up those that will only use a cell phone because we become so much cheaper for them. I just got a call from a customer that's spending $400 per month on phones. Home phone, fax line, cell phones etc. Guess what he's going to do? He's going to buy a $25 VoIP line from me and drop his $40+ land line. AND he'll get free long distance too! I'll now be billing him $65 per month instead of $40 and he'll be saving money too. I hope that this is helpful! Feel free to call me if you have any questions. 509.988.0260 cell Have a great Christmas! Marlon K. Schafer Founding Board Member - WISPA Owner- Odessa Office Equipment - Original Message - From: Kaplan, Jeremy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] The fastest ISPs in
Re: [WISPA] survey says
I'd think that is fairly close. Heck, even out here I'm over 600 now! marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey says Interesting to note that by these numbers there is an average of just over 1000 subscribers per WISP. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:37 PM To: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey says Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.30% Alvarion 4027 4.24% Ubiquity 1778 1.87% Canopy 41617 43.85% Other 8316 8.76% Trango 11352 11.96% Tranzeo 12779 13.47% MT 14746 15.54% Total 94901 100.00% Responses 93 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
One of the nice parts about StarOS is that the scripting format is the same as the linux packages that they load to perform those functions - so if you want to learn how to do fancy cbq scripts, just look for the many available linux docs that describe how to use iptables and you are set. Same thing goes for firewalls, quagga (ospf/olsr/rip/bgp), dhcpd and other features. Also, the default config scripts include many well-commented examples for common applications. Since StarOS is based on open source, standard packages for a lot of its functionality, I would actually say that in many ways its documentation is BETTER than Mikrotik, which doesn't follow the same standards for configuration, and requires you to learn its command-line interface or fight your way through Winbox to do some of the more complex tasks. If ten people respond to me with a request for a training class, I will put one on. I could easily do three days on StarOS and already have a basic outline together for it. Word is that the StarOS guys are planning a training in Las Vegas sometime early next year. Maybe we could have a pre-session training session in coordination with their advanced one. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Steve Barnes wrote: Sam if you find good documentation other then the forums please let the rest of us know. I would love it. Maybe some of you StarOS gurus out there should offer a training class. I know at least 3 guys that would love to have one. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the technical end. I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Josh Luthman wrote: Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as
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If you can provide business service 1.5Mbps synchronous with static IP please contact Greg Licon @ [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 925-914-4571 Service Address: 4331 Pock Lane Stockton, Ca 95206 Jerry Richardson VP Operations 925-260-4119 P Please consider the environment before printing this email aircloud_WebTiny_color_white_back.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Lucaya/StarOS/Valemount/SOS/VNC(*) put on a training session last January in the Caribbean. Last I heard they were planning one for Minnesota in Jan '09. You best bet to learn about them would be thru the StarOS forums. (*) This is one of my complaints about StarOS - what the heck do I call them? :-) -John (a pretty happy StarOS user) On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: Maybe some of you StarOS gurus out there should offer a training class. I know at least 3 guys that would love to have one. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Tom DeReggi wrote: Let me explain MT enables everything to be done through an easy graphical interface. In other words no need to remember syntax. In StarOS, to configure advanced features, from the menu you open up a script page, and then manually writing text commands. StarOS has little documetnations, MT has very complete documentation. From that perspective MT is easy, and StarOS is hard. However, there is another angle. What if you don't really want to use all those custom advanced features? MT's interface is really somewhat overwelming. There is too much there, designed for the super tech. StarOS on the other hand, has a Mouse clickable menu (NOt a windows GUI, more like a DOS version of a window) that is well organized, and easy to spot and access the feature that you want to configure. The core feature that you want to configure (such as wireless settings) are all complete with easy checkboxes. With StarOS I spend lesss time hunting for the menu item I want to use. For example, when StarOS starts, by default on the main screen you see your wireless connections and the RSSI and Noise for each. You don;t have to click anything to get to that place, its just right there. Then if you press F1, (a single key) you now have a view of all your subscribers and their RSSIs and link Qualities. So basically in seconds, you are viewing menaingful information on your active connections. When you go to configure wireless, all the core features you will change are all on one screen, in one place. And because it is SSH accessed, it can be done from anywhere anytime, and it is lightnig fast to navigate the menu.. From that perspective StarOS is the more easy. MT has ssh access, in fact it is very seldom that I use winbox as I don't really care for it. I'll use it if I want to look at the graphs on interfaces and it makes it easier to watch queues on my core router, but from the AP I use either a web interface I built myself using custom scripts or I ssh in to the CLI. That is my gripe about StarOS, not that it's interface is not gui enough but that it is too gui. I want something I can script using expect. I know I'm probably not the norm with this opinion, I was just talking about my experience. That being said it has caused me to rethink the way my network is provisioned and I'm migrating towards a 'dumb routed ap' model where there really is very little set in the AP other than the SSID, channel and ip addresses. Everything else is moving to OSPF and RADIUS for routing and authentication. Bandwidth queues were moved off the APs a long time ago because of CPU utilization and I have found little reason to move the back now that AP power has increased. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless MT is very feature rich, if not the most feature rich. With options, comes choice. And where there is choice there is greater complexity, and greater chance of error. When we first started using MT, techs always had to go look at another MT router already configured to remember how to configure it the way that was our standard to do so. It was harder to remember, and required more training. Once we learned it, it was easy, but it had a longer learnign curve. With StarOS, we are not driven to use all the options. It could be argued that I am not being fair, because we don't use StarOS complex features, to report how hard they are or aren;t to use. STAROS also has made much automatic. For example, WDS bridging is 100% automatic, and requires no customization. Its senses whether to treat the CPE as a wifi station or a WDS true bridge. And does it well. Thats why even though WDS took more processing power, we chose to use Bridging anyway. It was jsut easy, and we could operate it just like a dumb bridge, like a Trango or Canopy. But the primary reason we used StarOS, is they generally were the fist to out out a key features that we were looking for. For example they did 5 Mhz channels first. possibly first to support 533Mhz board. Because we always ahve been a company to jump first on new useful features, we quickly jumped on StarOS. Then we somewhat get locked into it at those regions we deployed it. Today, MT is offering so many improvements, its pretty hard to beat. Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Did you ever get an answer on your VPN issue. I have one customer that is having problems and 2 others that are not... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Steve Barnes wrote: As I stated in my earlier post. I think that StarOS is a Solid Option. I am a fairly new startup WISP. I started by expanding an existing distant wisps network in our county. They had 1 tower with 20 clients. I have taken it over and have expanded it and have over 300 clients in a short time. I paid them to help build out my network with all StarOS for backhaul and AP's because of their existing knowledge and experience. I paid them to help manage the network and we did all the Client installs and support. We had an issue that we were having way to much noise at one tower and needed to change to XR2's for better filtering. The V2 Wrap boards would not handle the XR2 so we installed new War2 Boards with StarOS V3. We got the new boards working in Minutes but then none of our clients VPNs would work everything else worked great. Then the engineer for my supplier quit so I was the new engineer forced to troubleshoot these problems myself. Yes I was new to StarOS but have been a computer specialist and network installer for 15 years. I spent 3 weeks on the StarOS support forum Trying everything they told me. I change client CPE 3 times, tried a VDS setup, and endured being told by the programmers/forum support to go out of business and let a real company take over my clients. That was when I said screw them and had tower climber come back and put in Mikrotik AP boards. Put the original CPE back at the clients and they were up and going in minutes. Yes I have had to deal with the Mikrotik/Tranzeo disconnect issue but that has now been resolved. They just work and since then all my APs have been Mikrotik. I love winbox I love the layout. We have stayed with StarOS War boards for backhaul. Those are my experiences. Again if you are a old command line guy and love scripting then StarOS maybe your bag. I am a GUI kind of Guy. MT are just easier and I have so many more people I can call for support any day. With StarOS NOT ONE. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I have to disagree with the below. There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as one might think from his description. Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. I have used it for the
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Nope, Not with StarOS and Tranzeo. Worked most of the time when I put a StarOS V3 CPE on the same. Worked right away with MT and Tranzeo. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Did you ever get an answer on your VPN issue. I have one customer that is having problems and 2 others that are not... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Steve Barnes wrote: As I stated in my earlier post. I think that StarOS is a Solid Option. I am a fairly new startup WISP. I started by expanding an existing distant wisps network in our county. They had 1 tower with 20 clients. I have taken it over and have expanded it and have over 300 clients in a short time. I paid them to help build out my network with all StarOS for backhaul and AP's because of their existing knowledge and experience. I paid them to help manage the network and we did all the Client installs and support. We had an issue that we were having way to much noise at one tower and needed to change to XR2's for better filtering. The V2 Wrap boards would not handle the XR2 so we installed new War2 Boards with StarOS V3. We got the new boards working in Minutes but then none of our clients VPNs would work everything else worked great. Then the engineer for my supplier quit so I was the new engineer forced to troubleshoot these problems myself. Yes I was new to StarOS but have been a computer specialist and network installer for 15 years. I spent 3 weeks on the StarOS support forum Trying everything they told me. I change client CPE 3 times, tried a VDS setup, and endured being told by the programmers/forum support to go out of business and let a real company take over my clients. That was when I said screw them and had tower climber come back and put in Mikrotik AP boards. Put the original CPE back at the clients and they were up and going in minutes. Yes I have had to deal with the Mikrotik/Tranzeo disconnect issue but that has now been resolved. They just work and since then all my APs have been Mikrotik. I love winbox I love the layout. We have stayed with StarOS War boards for backhaul. Those are my experiences. Again if you are a old command line guy and love scripting then StarOS maybe your bag. I am a GUI kind of Guy. MT are just easier and I have so many more people I can call for support any day. With StarOS NOT ONE. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message -
Re: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them
Oh right add another 70,000 subs to canopy's #'S -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 10:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Where is JAB when we need them Redline 286 0.334058 Alvarion 4027 4.70367 Ubiquity 1728 2.018361 Canopy 38583 45.06623 Other 7816 9.129348 Trango 11252 13.14271 Tranzeo 10029 11.71421 MT 11893 13.89142 Total 85614 100 Responses 85 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Please participate in the following survey
The WISPA Board is currently trying to assess different options. We encourage your participation in the following survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Ap9lOHyNRpNtj72JQKvxlQ_3d_3d Thank you, Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey
Question 5 is broken Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey The WISPA Board is currently trying to assess different options. We encourage your participation in the following survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Ap9lOHyNRpNtj72JQKvxlQ_3d_3d Thank you, Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Please participate in the following survey
You copycats... ;-) (Did you guys pay for the better account, it really would be helpful). - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish To: 'WISPA General List' ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:45 PM Subject: [WISPA Members] Please participate in the following survey The WISPA Board is currently trying to assess different options. We encourage your participation in the following survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Ap9lOHyNRpNtj72JQKvxlQ_3d_3d Thank you, Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 -- ___ WISPA Membership Mailing List --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey
Should be fixed now, thank you. Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:55 PM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey Question 5 is broken Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey The WISPA Board is currently trying to assess different options. We encourage your participation in the following survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Ap9lOHyNRpNtj72JQKvxlQ_3d_3d Thank you, Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey
Looks like it's not for vendor members (q1). Correct? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:02 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey Should be fixed now, thank you. Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:55 PM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey Question 5 is broken Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey The WISPA Board is currently trying to assess different options. We encourage your participation in the following survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Ap9lOHyNRpNtj72JQKvxlQ_3d_3d Thank you, Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey
A few vendors have participated already, I plan to do another survey specifically for vendors soon. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey Looks like it's not for vendor members (q1). Correct? Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:02 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey Should be fixed now, thank you. Rick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 6:55 PM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey Question 5 is broken Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Please participate in the following survey The WISPA Board is currently trying to assess different options. We encourage your participation in the following survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=Ap9lOHyNRpNtj72JQKvxlQ_3d_3d Thank you, Rick Harnish General Manager - Midwest Region Great American Broadband 260-827-2482 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] survey
After, God it seems like forever at least since I started looking into being a WISP Patrick was with Alvarion... now to see Aperto it's so weird. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 2:48 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] survey Obviously I am commenting late, so sorry for that, but what jumps out for me is that this shows that list participation is weighted towards Canopy users. Canopy users have built a vibrant community of operators, especially under the august stewardship and commitment of Chuck from the operator side. That said, I suspect of non-802.11 and non-WiMAX type networks, Motorola enjoys a MAJORITY share. For sure though I can tell you as an ex-Alvarion person, that most Alvarion users are not active list participants, so the count of subscribers and concurrent single digit percentages are meaningless. In other words, this survey is not a reflection of reality of the market, only the reality of this set of lists. Cheers, Patrick Aperto 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 3 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:47 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] survey Brand # Subs % By Subs Redline 286 0.56% Alvarion 938 1.83% Ubiquity 960 1.88% Canopy 32933 64.39% Other 4345 8.49% Trango 8217 16.06% MT 3471 6.79% Total 51150 100.00% Responses 47 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
