Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

2011-09-30 Thread Tom DeReggi
Cost effective depends on your goals. 

Its nice to see products comming out like APEX9, enabling $6900/link pricing 
standard, which are fully feauture rich to latest standards.
366mbps is a lot of bandwdith for most people. 
And companies like Solectek offering discounts on their older generation model, 
that are still good upto 300mb, and had amazing even lower pricing.(note they 
also have new generatin products)
Those are all great examples of more cost effective.

However, I'd like to point out Trango BRoadband's latest models that support 
Compression and that they are awesome. The compression really works at less 
than 1ms, and I've seen anywhere from 1.5 to 4X capacity increase compressed, 
allthough spec sheets tend to advertise 2x to be conservative.  Its obviously 
more cost effective to buy 1 radio with Compression, than 2 radios without to 
get the same speed, if need more capacity than 1 radio can provide, or if you 
cant find another free channel or large channel.  What do you do if you wanted 
a 50mhz channel, but you only found a 30mhz one available in your freq 
coordination?  The answer is use a radio with compression. 

Whats most cost effective, is getting the best $ per mb, not necessarilly best 
$ per link, and knowing that each MB is a resource that can be resold for a 
higher reoccurring profit. More bandwdith equals more potential profit. 
  
You need to consider your site requirements, and labor involved. Its more cost 
effective, to put up an all-outdoor CAT5 Licensed radio unit, if replacing a 
pre-existing all-outdoor CAT5 5.8G link, being able to re-use preexisting 
cabling. Or if you are paying for colo space per months, its more cost 
effective to use a little POE indoors mounted to a wall, instead of a rack.  
You could easilly assess a $2000 cost savings on install labor and supplies 
selecting an all-outdoor unit instead of Split archetecture.

In the long run, you might find a split archetecture to be more cost effective, 
considering you only have to stock one model of Indoor Unit for all freqs and 
all sides of links, if the IDU was designed as a multi-band type.  
   
If you bought one brand of radio for every link, you might see a cost savings 
in NOC support labor and development, as software OS and training became 
standardized network wide.

I can tell you the first step is to define the need. Second step is defining 
what product will be most costeffect to solve that need.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Blake Covarrubias 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul


  We have quite a few Trango licensed radios. They work well. Latency is 
usually under 1ms for each hop.

  --
  Blake Covarrubias

  On Sep 29, 2011, at 12:16, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:


Most if not all of the licensed backhauls are very solid and very good.  I 
have a SAF link that is working well.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote:

  Exalt has a nice product line.  How much bandwidth and how far are you 
trying to go are good places to start.

  mc


  On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:00 AM, John M. Nix 
j...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote:

We are thinking of changing our core backhaul from 5.8 Ghz to a 
Licensed solution.  Just wondering what the most cost effective solution would 
be without losing a great deal of quality. 



John Nix

CSWEB Support Team

www.csweb.net

918-235-0414

j...@cnetworksolutions.com









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  Argon Technologies Inc.
  POB 875
  Greenville, TX 75403-0875
  903-455-5036



  

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Re: [WISPA] LIGOWAVE PTP24-2

2011-09-30 Thread Tom DeReggi
The disadvantage of 5.8, is that you never know what you are gonna get until 
its up in the air, because you dont know the noise floor you'll see.

The advantage of millimenter wave (I consider 24Ghz millimeter wave) is that 
the beam width is extremely narrow, and few people use it because of the 
distance limit, and difficulty to mount stationary. As well, it only allows low 
power ptp for everyone using the band, so you never have some unexpected high 
power PTP link or wide beam PtMP showing up to cause you interference like in 
5.8G. So its often considered inteference-free, allthough it is possible to get 
interference. In general you can expect to get full radio speed. Millimeter 
wave can go far, out in the dry desert. But in high rain zones, it does not. I 
never recommend over 2 miles with 24Ghz and 2ft dishes in Mid East coast rain 
zones.  For 20km and high capacity, I'd still suggest Licensed, since licensed 
gear is getting more affordable every day, and there again, you get full radio 
speed, because you know the noise floor and link budget in advance.

With UBNT MIMO (dual pol) and 20Mhz channels, 5.8G, and a noise free channel, 
2ft dish, you can get as much as 80mbps HDX.
But I never count on more than 40mbps HDX, until after I know the noise floor 
for the link, considering typical noise floors I often see in my areas.
   
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob Moldashel 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] LIGOWAVE PTP24-2


  Not on a 10 Mb channel and not in the 5.4 Ghz band.  The distance is too 
great.  If you go to 5.8 GHz. band you will need to use a 32 MHz. channel.

  -B-




  On 9/28/2011 1:30 PM, Julius Igugu wrote: 
Hi,

How does this perform under very noisy conditions/interference?

I have a UBNT Rocket M5 on a 20.3km link signal with 10MHz channel size is 
about -60dBm on both ends and can only do about 30Mbps one way.  Will the Exalt 
perform better?  I need at least 50Mbps full duplex.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Julius Igugu
Lightning Networks


On 9/27/2011 7:57 PM, Me wrote: 
  5.4 GHz has to be open.  Use an Exalt link on 5:4 and you can get up to 
440 aggregate with an 80/20 traffic split.  Much cheaper than a Ligowave W4 Ghz

  Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless


  -Original message-

From: Nick W lists-wi...@atomsplash.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 18:47:55 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [WISPA] LIGOWAVE PTP24-2



   


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Julius Igugu



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Re: [WISPA] LIGOWAVE PTP24-2

2011-09-30 Thread Dorn Hetzel
Can you use more dish to improve the situation or is it diminishing returns
past 2ft dish on each end?

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote:

 **
 The disadvantage of 5.8, is that you never know what you are gonna get
 until its up in the air, because you dont know the noise floor you'll see.

 The advantage of millimenter wave (I consider 24Ghz millimeter wave) is
 that the beam width is extremely narrow, and few people use it because of
 the distance limit, and difficulty to mount stationary. As well, it only
 allows low power ptp for everyone using the band, so you never have some
 unexpected high power PTP link or wide beam PtMP showing up to cause you
 interference like in 5.8G. So its often considered inteference-free,
 allthough it is possible to get interference. In general you can expect to
 get full radio speed. Millimeter wave can go far, out in the dry desert. But
 in high rain zones, it does not. I never recommend over 2 miles with 24Ghz
 and 2ft dishes in Mid East coast rain zones.  For 20km and high capacity,
 I'd still suggest Licensed, since licensed gear is getting more affordable
 every day, and there again, you get full radio speed, because you know the
 noise floor and link budget in advance.

 With UBNT MIMO (dual pol) and 20Mhz channels, 5.8G, and a noise
 free channel, 2ft dish, you can get as much as 80mbps HDX.
 But I never count on more than 40mbps HDX, until after I know the noise
 floor for the link, considering typical noise floors I often see in my
 areas.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



 - Original Message -
 *From:* Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net
 *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 *Sent:* Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:47 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] LIGOWAVE PTP24-2

 Not on a 10 Mb channel and not in the 5.4 Ghz band.  The distance is too
 great.  If you go to 5.8 GHz. band you will need to use a 32 MHz. channel.

 -B-




 On 9/28/2011 1:30 PM, Julius Igugu wrote:

 Hi,

 How does this perform under very noisy conditions/interference?

 I have a UBNT Rocket M5 on a 20.3km link signal with 10MHz channel size is
 about -60dBm on both ends and can only do about 30Mbps one way.  Will the
 Exalt perform better?  I need at least 50Mbps full duplex.

 Thanks for any suggestions.

 Julius Igugu
 Lightning Networks


 On 9/27/2011 7:57 PM, Me wrote:

 5.4 GHz has to be open.  Use an Exalt link on 5:4 and you can get up to 440
 aggregate with an 80/20 traffic split.  Much cheaper than a Ligowave W4 Ghz

 *Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless*


 -Original message-

 *From: *Nick W lists-wi...@atomsplash.com lists-wi...@atomsplash.com*
 To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org wireless@wispa.org*
 Sent: *Tue, Sep 27, 2011 18:47:55 GMT+00:00*
 Subject: *Re: [WISPA] LIGOWAVE PTP24-2



 
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 --
 Best Regards.

 Julius Igugu




 
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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

2011-09-30 Thread Charles Wu
Its nice to see products comming out like APEX9, enabling $6900/link pricing 
standard, which are fully feauture rich to latest standards.

You're a little high on the price - it's $6500 for a full link (and that's the 
rack rate for a single link =)

That price includes high power (e.g., +28 dBm for 11 GHz)

The Apex9 Radios also support compression - in our testing, we got ~390 Mbps 
full duplex with 64 byte packets

-Charles



- Original Message -
From: Blake Covarrubiasmailto:bl...@beamspeed.com
To: WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

We have quite a few Trango licensed radios. They work well. Latency is usually 
under 1ms for each hop.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Sep 29, 2011, at 12:16, Josh Luthman 
j...@imaginenetworksllc.commailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:
Most if not all of the licensed backhauls are very solid and very good.  I have 
a SAF link that is working well.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Marco Coelho 
coelh...@gmail.commailto:coelh...@gmail.com wrote:
Exalt has a nice product line.  How much bandwidth and how far are you trying 
to go are good places to start.

mc
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:00 AM, John M. Nix 
j...@cnetworksolutions.commailto:j...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote:
We are thinking of changing our core backhaul from 5.8 Ghz to a Licensed 
solution.  Just wondering what the most cost effective solution would be 
without losing a great deal of quality.

John Nix
CSWEB Support Team
www.csweb.nethttp://www.csweb.net
918-235-0414tel:918-235-0414
j...@cnetworksolutions.commailto:j...@cnetworksolutions.com




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Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036tel:903-455-5036




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

2011-09-30 Thread Mathew Howard
But that doesn't include dishes, correct?

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Charles Wu
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 3:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

Its nice to see products comming out like APEX9, enabling $6900/link pricing 
standard, which are fully feauture rich to latest standards.

You're a little high on the price - it's $6500 for a full link (and that's the 
rack rate for a single link =)

That price includes high power (e.g., +28 dBm for 11 GHz)

The Apex9 Radios also support compression - in our testing, we got ~390 Mbps 
full duplex with 64 byte packets

-Charles



- Original Message -
From: Blake Covarrubiasmailto:bl...@beamspeed.com
To: WISPA General Listmailto:wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

We have quite a few Trango licensed radios. They work well. Latency is usually 
under 1ms for each hop.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Sep 29, 2011, at 12:16, Josh Luthman 
j...@imaginenetworksllc.commailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:
Most if not all of the licensed backhauls are very solid and very good.  I have 
a SAF link that is working well.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Marco Coelho 
coelh...@gmail.commailto:coelh...@gmail.com wrote:
Exalt has a nice product line.  How much bandwidth and how far are you trying 
to go are good places to start.

mc
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:00 AM, John M. Nix 
j...@cnetworksolutions.commailto:j...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote:
We are thinking of changing our core backhaul from 5.8 Ghz to a Licensed 
solution.  Just wondering what the most cost effective solution would be 
without losing a great deal of quality.

John Nix
CSWEB Support Team
www.csweb.nethttp://www.csweb.net
918-235-0414tel:918-235-0414
j...@cnetworksolutions.commailto:j...@cnetworksolutions.com




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--
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036tel:903-455-5036




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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

2011-09-30 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

What kind of distances can you get from 11ghz with 4' dishes?

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com

On 9/30/2011 2:14 PM, Charles Wu wrote:


Itsnice to see products comming out like APEX9, enabling $6900/link 
pricing standard, which are fully feauture rich to latest standards.


You're a little high on the price -- it's $6500 for a full link (and 
that's the rack rate for a single link =)


That price includes high power (e.g., +28 dBm for 11 GHz)

The Apex9 Radios also support compression -- in our testing, we got 
~390 Mbps full duplex with 64 byte packets


-Charles

- Original Message -

*From:*Blake Covarrubias mailto:bl...@beamspeed.com

*To:*WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:*Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:12 PM

*Subject:*Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

We have quite a few Trango licensed radios. They work well.
Latency is usually under 1ms for each hop.


-- 


Blake Covarrubias


On Sep 29, 2011, at 12:16, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:

Most if not all of the licensed backhauls are very solid and
very good.  I have a SAF link that is working well.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Marco Coelho
coelh...@gmail.com mailto:coelh...@gmail.com wrote:

Exalt has a nice product line.  How much bandwidth and how far
are you trying to go are good places to start.

mc

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:00 AM, John M. Nix
j...@cnetworksolutions.com
mailto:j...@cnetworksolutions.com wrote:

We are thinking of changing our core backhaul from 5.8 Ghz
to a Licensed solution.  Just wondering what the most cost
effective solution would be without losing a great deal of
quality.

John Nix

CSWEB Support Team

www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net

918-235-0414 tel:918-235-0414

j...@cnetworksolutions.com mailto:j...@cnetworksolutions.com





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Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036 tel:903-455-5036





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Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul

2011-09-30 Thread Scott Carullo
we have 3 foot links over 20 miles and they work great, florida rainy here, 
when rain fade occurs you have adaptive modulation and rapid port shutdown that 
works well.


Scott Carullo

Technical Operations

855-FLSPEED x102



From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com

Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 5:27 PM

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul


What kind of distances can you get from 11ghz with 4' dishes?


Matt Larsen

vistabeam.com


On 9/30/2011 2:14 PM, Charles Wu wrote:

1024x768

Clean

false
false
false

EN-US
X-NONE
X-NONE

MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Its nice to see products comming out like
APEX9, enabling $6900/link pricing standard, which are
fully feauture rich to latest standards.

You're a little high on the
price - it's $6500 for a full link (and that's the rack
rate for a single link =)

That price includes high
power (e.g., +28 dBm for 11
GHz)

The Apex9 Radios also
support compression - in our testing, we got ~390 Mbps
full duplex with 64 byte packets

-Charles






- Original Message -

From: Blake Covarrubias

To: WISPA General List

Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Licensed Backhaul



We have quite a few Trango licensed radios.
They work well. Latency is usually under 1ms for each
hop.


--

Blake Covarrubias


On Sep 29, 2011, at 12:16, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:

Most if not all of the licensed backhauls
are very solid and very good.  I have a SAF link that
is working well.

Josh Luthman

Office: 937-552-2340

Direct: 937-552-2343

1100 Wayne St

Suite 1337

Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Marco
Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
wrote:
Exalt has a nice product line.  How
much bandwidth and how far are you trying to go are
good places to start.


mc

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:00 AM,
John M. Nix j...@cnetworksolutions.com
wrote:

We
are thinking of changing our core backhaul
from 5.8 Ghz to a Licensed solution.  Just
wondering what the most cost effective
solution would be without losing a great
deal of quality.

John
Nix
CSWEB
Support Team
www.csweb.net
918-235-0414
j...@cnetworksolutions.com




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--

Marco C. Coelho

Argon Technologies Inc.

POB 875

Greenville, TX 75403-0875

903-455-5036




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[WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

2011-09-30 Thread Josh Luthman
Who is excited?!

If you haven't gotten your preparations ready, do them NOW!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



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Re: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

2011-09-30 Thread Jeff Broadwick - Lists
I don't care for Vegas, but I can't wait to see everyone!

 

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream Sales Manager
800-813-5123 x106

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 6:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

 

Who is excited?!

If you haven't gotten your preparations ready, do them NOW!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3929 - Release Date: 09/30/11




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Re: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

2011-09-30 Thread John McDowell
Ditto!

John McDowell


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2011, at 7:07 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
jeffl...@att.netmailto:jeffl...@att.net wrote:

I don’t care for Vegas, but I can’t wait to see everyone!


Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream Sales Manager
800-813-5123 x106


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 6:42 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas


Who is excited?!

If you haven't gotten your preparations ready, do them NOW!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com www.avg.comhttp://www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3929 - Release Date: 09/30/11



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Re: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas

2011-09-30 Thread Patrick D. Nix, Jr
Vegas is just a little too far for us especially with the workload, last year 
we went to broadband expo in Dallas. Any word of it coming back?

Pat
Csweb

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2011, at 7:15 PM, John McDowell j...@readynetsolutions.com wrote:

 Ditto!
 
 John McDowell
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone 
 
 On Sep 30, 2011, at 7:07 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists jeffl...@att.net 
 wrote:
 
 I don’t care for Vegas, but I can’t wait to see everyone!
  
 Regards,
 
 Jeff
 ImageStream Sales Manager
 800-813-5123 x106
 
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 6:42 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] 7 days till Vegas
  
 Who is excited?!
 
 If you haven't gotten your preparations ready, do them NOW!
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3929 - Release Date: 09/30/11
 
 
 
 
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