Re: [WISPA] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco...

[Mike Hammett]

No.Cisco is definitely not worth it at that price. 

Given my experiences with Cisco, I'm not sure Cisco is worth it at any price. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "David Jones"  
To: "Principal WISPA Member List" , "WISPA General List" 
, "Mikrotik Users" , 
memb...@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 12:46:01 PM 
Subject: [WISPA] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco... 


Good morning. 


I have a deep question for the Mikrotik people and the Cisco people. 


Let me give you an overview of where we are. 
Currently we have all of our tower sites using Mikrotik connecting to our core 
with MPLS/VPLS to our core that is multiple Mikrotik routers using VRRP (I had 
a core die from power supply failure and our network didn't skip a beet while 
it was replaced.) The VRRP core then connects to our edge that is a Cisco 
ASR1001-x that connects to our BGP peers. 


The reason we went with Cisco was because all the CCR Mikrotik Lagged horribly 
when doing BGP full tables. We had a Maxxwave router that did fine with the BGP 
but had crap interface support with Mikrotik not having good drivers for the 
interfaces. Different MTU for the MPLS caused problems. 


It appears that now with Mikrotik's CHR fixes the driver problems. the Virtual 
host deals with the drivers so Mikrotik doesn't have to. 


All has been fine for a few years... but now the Cisco has reset itself twice 
in the past week. For whatever reason a reboot on a Cisco = 15-20min down time. 
We are now needing a VRRP solution for the Edge. 


So here is the cross roads... Do we get another ASR1001-x and struggle for a 
while to get a form of VRRP to work between them? Or do we get something like 
this 
(https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-SuperServer-5018D-FN8T-Rackmount-10GbE/dp/B01LXUATHB
 ) 

and keep it all Mikrotik for ease of training and use? 


We do not have much experience with Cisco. It takes us quite a bit to configure 
and change them. is it worth learning and paying the 12x the price for less 
throughput? 
Cisco ASR 1001 2.5gbps throughput = $6,680 
Cisco Licence for 10gbps throughput = $13,099 
Total for 1 Cisco router + Repair of current + 1 Spare = $41,558 


vs Mikrotik 
Supermicro SuperServer 5018D-FN8T + 16G mem + SSD = $986 

CHR 10Gbps upload per interface = $95 
Total for 2 routers + 1 spare = $3,243 


Is Cisco still the better option? would it be better to say use 3 MK routers in 
VRRP with one spare so 2 can fail and not be a problem? 

-- 


David Jones 
NGL Connection 
307-288-5491 ext 702 

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Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik Users] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco...

[Mike Francis]

ASR-1004

John Michael Francis II
JMF Solutions, Inc
Wavefly - Internet | Voip | Cloud
INC 5000 #2593
CRN Fast Growth #105
251-517-5069
http://jmfsolutions.net
http://wavefly.com

"People are unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered. Love them 
anyway. If you do good, people may accuse you of selfish motives. Do 
good anyway. If you are successful, you may win false friends and true 
enemies. Succeed anyway. The good you do today may be forgotten 
tomorrow. Do good anyway. Honesty and transparency make you vulnerable. 
Be honest and transparent anyway. What you spend years building may be 
destroyed overnight. Build anyway. People who really want help may 
attack you if you help them. Help them anyway. Give the world the best 
you have and you may get hurt. Give the world your best anyway." By: 
Mother Teresa

On 6/30/2017 1:03 PM, Mike Lyon wrote:

Which ASRs are you running?


On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Mike Francis via Mikrotik-users 
> wrote:


I am a bog Mikrotik fan, but rely on cisco for our Core and Edge.
Our latest BGP config for Edge services are a Cisco ASR for
Primary, then we are running a CHR on top of our Vmware platform
for secondary BGP. we have several CHRs passing several gigs of
traffic and they are very solid. We have this deployed in 4
datacenters like this and it is working very well, keeps cost
down, and is very flexible.

Thank you,

John Michael Francis II
JMF Solutions, Inc
Wavefly - Internet | Voip | Cloud
INC 5000 #2593
CRN Fast Growth #105
251-517-5069 
http://jmfsolutions.net
http://wavefly.com

"People are unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered. Love them
anyway. If you do good, people may accuse you of selfish motives.
Do good anyway. If you are successful, you may win false friends
and true enemies. Succeed anyway. The good you do today may be
forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway. Honesty and transparency make
you vulnerable. Be honest and transparent anyway. What you spend
years building may be destroyed overnight. Build anyway. People
who really want help may attack you if you help them. Help them
anyway. Give the world the best you have and you may get hurt.
Give the world your best anyway." By: Mother Teresa
On 6/30/2017 12:46 PM, David Jones via Mikrotik-users wrote:

Good morning.

I have a deep question for the Mikrotik people and the Cisco people.

Let me give you an overview of where we are.
Currently we have all of our tower sites using Mikrotik
connecting to our core with MPLS/VPLS to our core that is
multiple Mikrotik routers using VRRP (I had a core die from power
supply failure and our network didn't skip a beet while it was
replaced.) The VRRP core then connects to our edge that is a
Cisco ASR1001-x that connects to our BGP peers.

The reason we went with Cisco was because all the CCR Mikrotik
Lagged horribly when doing BGP full tables. We had a Maxxwave
router that did fine with the BGP but had crap interface support
with Mikrotik not having good drivers for the interfaces.
Different MTU for the MPLS caused problems.

It appears that now with Mikrotik's CHR fixes the driver
problems. the Virtual host deals with the drivers so Mikrotik
doesn't have to.

All has been fine for a few years... but now the Cisco has reset
itself twice in the past week. For whatever reason a reboot on a
Cisco = 15-20min down time. We are now needing a VRRP solution
for the Edge.

So here is the cross roads... Do we get another ASR1001-x and
struggle for a while to get a form of VRRP to work between them?
Or do we get something like this

(https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-SuperServer-5018D-FN8T-Rackmount-10GbE/dp/B01LXUATHB

)
and keep it all Mikrotik for ease of training and use?

We do not have much experience with Cisco. It takes us quite a
bit to configure and change them. is it worth learning and paying
the 12x the price for less throughput?
Cisco ASR 1001 2.5gbps throughput = $6,680
Cisco Licence for 10gbps throughput = $13,099
Total for 1 Cisco router + Repair of current + 1 Spare = $41,558

vs Mikrotik
Supermicro SuperServer 5018D-FN8T + 16G mem + SSD = $986
CHR 10Gbps upload per interface = $95
Total for 2 routers + 1 spare = $3,243

Is Cisco still the better option? would it be better to say use 3
MK routers in VRRP with one spare so 2 can fail and not be a problem?

-- 
David Jones

NGL Connection
307-288-5491 ext 702 


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Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik Users] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco...

[Mike Lyon]

Which ASRs are you running?


On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Mike Francis via Mikrotik-users <
mikrotik-us...@wispa.org> wrote:

> I am a bog Mikrotik fan, but rely on cisco for our Core and Edge. Our
> latest BGP config for Edge services are a Cisco ASR for Primary, then we
> are running a CHR on top of our Vmware platform for secondary BGP. we have
> several CHRs passing several gigs of traffic and they are very solid. We
> have this deployed in 4 datacenters like this and it is working very well,
> keeps cost down, and is very flexible.
>
> Thank you,
> John Michael Francis II
> JMF Solutions, Inc
> Wavefly - Internet | Voip | Cloud
> INC 5000 #2593
> CRN Fast Growth #105
> 251-517-5069 <(251)%20517-5069>
> http://jmfsolutions.net
> http://wavefly.com
>
> "People are unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered. Love them anyway.
> If you do good, people may accuse you of selfish motives. Do good anyway.
> If you are successful, you may win false friends and true enemies. Succeed
> anyway. The good you do today may be forgotten tomorrow. Do good anyway.
> Honesty and transparency make you vulnerable. Be honest and transparent
> anyway. What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight. Build
> anyway. People who really want help may attack you if you help them. Help
> them anyway. Give the world the best you have and you may get hurt. Give
> the world your best anyway." By: Mother Teresa
> On 6/30/2017 12:46 PM, David Jones via Mikrotik-users wrote:
>
> Good morning.
>
> I have a deep question for the Mikrotik people and the Cisco people.
>
> Let me give you an overview of where we are.
> Currently we have all of our tower sites using Mikrotik connecting to our
> core with MPLS/VPLS to our core that is multiple Mikrotik routers using
> VRRP (I had a core die from power supply failure and our network didn't
> skip a beet while it was replaced.) The VRRP core then connects to our edge
> that is a Cisco ASR1001-x that connects to our BGP peers.
>
> The reason we went with Cisco was because all the CCR Mikrotik Lagged
> horribly when doing BGP full tables. We had a Maxxwave router that did fine
> with the BGP but had crap interface support with Mikrotik not having good
> drivers for the interfaces. Different MTU for the MPLS caused problems.
>
> It appears that now with Mikrotik's CHR fixes the driver problems. the
> Virtual host deals with the drivers so Mikrotik doesn't have to.
>
> All has been fine for a few years... but now the Cisco has reset itself
> twice in the past week. For whatever reason a reboot on a Cisco = 15-20min
> down time. We are now needing a VRRP solution for the Edge.
>
> So here is the cross roads... Do we get another ASR1001-x and struggle for
> a while to get a form of VRRP to work between them? Or do we get something
> like this (https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-SuperServer-5018D-
> FN8T-Rackmount-10GbE/dp/B01LXUATHB
> 
> )
> and keep it all Mikrotik for ease of training and use?
>
> We do not have much experience with Cisco. It takes us quite a bit to
> configure and change them. is it worth learning and paying the 12x the
> price for less throughput?
> Cisco ASR 1001 2.5gbps throughput = $6,680
> Cisco Licence for 10gbps throughput = $13,099
> Total for 1 Cisco router + Repair of current + 1 Spare = $41,558
>
> vs Mikrotik
> Supermicro SuperServer 5018D-FN8T + 16G mem + SSD = $986
> CHR 10Gbps upload per interface = $95
> Total for 2 routers + 1 spare = $3,243
>
> Is Cisco still the better option? would it be better to say use 3 MK
> routers in VRRP with one spare so 2 can fail and not be a problem?
>
> --
> David Jones
> NGL Connection
> 307-288-5491 ext 702 <(307)%20288-5491>
>
>
> ___
> Mikrotik-users mailing 
> listMikrotik-users@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/mikrotik-users
>
>
>
> ___
> Mikrotik-users mailing list
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/mikrotik-users
>
>


-- 
Mike Lyon
mike.l...@gmail.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
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Re: [WISPA] [Mikrotik Users] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco...

[Mike Francis]

I am a bog Mikrotik fan, but rely on cisco for our Core and Edge. Our 
latest BGP config for Edge services are a Cisco ASR for Primary, then we 
are running a CHR on top of our Vmware platform for secondary BGP. we 
have several CHRs passing several gigs of traffic and they are very 
solid. We have this deployed in 4 datacenters like this and it is 
working very well, keeps cost down, and is very flexible.


Thank you,

John Michael Francis II
JMF Solutions, Inc
Wavefly - Internet | Voip | Cloud
INC 5000 #2593
CRN Fast Growth #105
251-517-5069
http://jmfsolutions.net
http://wavefly.com

"People are unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered. Love them 
anyway. If you do good, people may accuse you of selfish motives. Do 
good anyway. If you are successful, you may win false friends and true 
enemies. Succeed anyway. The good you do today may be forgotten 
tomorrow. Do good anyway. Honesty and transparency make you vulnerable. 
Be honest and transparent anyway. What you spend years building may be 
destroyed overnight. Build anyway. People who really want help may 
attack you if you help them. Help them anyway. Give the world the best 
you have and you may get hurt. Give the world your best anyway." By: 
Mother Teresa

On 6/30/2017 12:46 PM, David Jones via Mikrotik-users wrote:

Good morning.

I have a deep question for the Mikrotik people and the Cisco people.

Let me give you an overview of where we are.
Currently we have all of our tower sites using Mikrotik connecting to 
our core with MPLS/VPLS to our core that is multiple Mikrotik routers 
using VRRP (I had a core die from power supply failure and our network 
didn't skip a beet while it was replaced.) The VRRP core then connects 
to our edge that is a Cisco ASR1001-x that connects to our BGP peers.


The reason we went with Cisco was because all the CCR Mikrotik Lagged 
horribly when doing BGP full tables. We had a Maxxwave router that did 
fine with the BGP but had crap interface support with Mikrotik not 
having good drivers for the interfaces. Different MTU for the MPLS 
caused problems.


It appears that now with Mikrotik's CHR fixes the driver problems. the 
Virtual host deals with the drivers so Mikrotik doesn't have to.


All has been fine for a few years... but now the Cisco has reset 
itself twice in the past week. For whatever reason a reboot on a Cisco 
= 15-20min down time. We are now needing a VRRP solution for the Edge.


So here is the cross roads... Do we get another ASR1001-x and struggle 
for a while to get a form of VRRP to work between them? Or do we get 
something like this 
(https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-SuperServer-5018D-FN8T-Rackmount-10GbE/dp/B01LXUATHB 
)

and keep it all Mikrotik for ease of training and use?

We do not have much experience with Cisco. It takes us quite a bit to 
configure and change them. is it worth learning and paying the 12x the 
price for less throughput?

Cisco ASR 1001 2.5gbps throughput = $6,680
Cisco Licence for 10gbps throughput = $13,099
Total for 1 Cisco router + Repair of current + 1 Spare = $41,558

vs Mikrotik
Supermicro SuperServer 5018D-FN8T + 16G mem + SSD = $986
CHR 10Gbps upload per interface = $95
Total for 2 routers + 1 spare = $3,243

Is Cisco still the better option? would it be better to say use 3 MK 
routers in VRRP with one spare so 2 can fail and not be a problem?


--
David Jones
NGL Connection
307-288-5491 ext 702


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Re: [WISPA] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco...

[Simon Westlake]

"is it worth learning and paying the 12x the price for less throughput?" 
- No


If there is something you gain by using the Cisco (all your staff 
understands Cisco better than MikroTik, the Cisco is more stable, the 
Cisco offers a featureset you can't get on the MikroTik) then you should 
do it.


But if it comes down to the fact that it has a Cisco label on it (which 
is all it sounds like it would be for you right now) then I wouldn't 
bother, personally.


On 6/30/2017 12:46 PM, David Jones wrote:

Good morning.

I have a deep question for the Mikrotik people and the Cisco people.

Let me give you an overview of where we are.
Currently we have all of our tower sites using Mikrotik connecting to 
our core with MPLS/VPLS to our core that is multiple Mikrotik routers 
using VRRP (I had a core die from power supply failure and our network 
didn't skip a beet while it was replaced.) The VRRP core then connects 
to our edge that is a Cisco ASR1001-x that connects to our BGP peers.


The reason we went with Cisco was because all the CCR Mikrotik Lagged 
horribly when doing BGP full tables. We had a Maxxwave router that did 
fine with the BGP but had crap interface support with Mikrotik not 
having good drivers for the interfaces. Different MTU for the MPLS 
caused problems.


It appears that now with Mikrotik's CHR fixes the driver problems. the 
Virtual host deals with the drivers so Mikrotik doesn't have to.


All has been fine for a few years... but now the Cisco has reset 
itself twice in the past week. For whatever reason a reboot on a Cisco 
= 15-20min down time. We are now needing a VRRP solution for the Edge.


So here is the cross roads... Do we get another ASR1001-x and struggle 
for a while to get a form of VRRP to work between them? Or do we get 
something like this 
(https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-SuperServer-5018D-FN8T-Rackmount-10GbE/dp/B01LXUATHB 
)

and keep it all Mikrotik for ease of training and use?

We do not have much experience with Cisco. It takes us quite a bit to 
configure and change them. is it worth learning and paying the 12x the 
price for less throughput?

Cisco ASR 1001 2.5gbps throughput = $6,680
Cisco Licence for 10gbps throughput = $13,099
Total for 1 Cisco router + Repair of current + 1 Spare = $41,558

vs Mikrotik
Supermicro SuperServer 5018D-FN8T + 16G mem + SSD = $986
CHR 10Gbps upload per interface = $95
Total for 2 routers + 1 spare = $3,243

Is Cisco still the better option? would it be better to say use 3 MK 
routers in VRRP with one spare so 2 can fail and not be a problem?


--
David Jones
NGL Connection
307-288-5491 ext 702


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--
Simon Westlake
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---
Sonar Software Inc
The future of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software

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[WISPA] Hmm.. Mikrotik or Cisco...

[David Jones]

Good morning.

I have a deep question for the Mikrotik people and the Cisco people.

Let me give you an overview of where we are.
Currently we have all of our tower sites using Mikrotik connecting to our
core with MPLS/VPLS to our core that is multiple Mikrotik routers using
VRRP (I had a core die from power supply failure and our network didn't
skip a beet while it was replaced.) The VRRP core then connects to our edge
that is a Cisco ASR1001-x that connects to our BGP peers.

The reason we went with Cisco was because all the CCR Mikrotik Lagged
horribly when doing BGP full tables. We had a Maxxwave router that did fine
with the BGP but had crap interface support with Mikrotik not having good
drivers for the interfaces. Different MTU for the MPLS caused problems.

It appears that now with Mikrotik's CHR fixes the driver problems. the
Virtual host deals with the drivers so Mikrotik doesn't have to.

All has been fine for a few years... but now the Cisco has reset itself
twice in the past week. For whatever reason a reboot on a Cisco = 15-20min
down time. We are now needing a VRRP solution for the Edge.

So here is the cross roads... Do we get another ASR1001-x and struggle for
a while to get a form of VRRP to work between them? Or do we get something
like this
(https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-SuperServer-5018D-FN8T-Rackmount-10GbE/dp/B01LXUATHB

)
and keep it all Mikrotik for ease of training and use?

We do not have much experience with Cisco. It takes us quite a bit to
configure and change them. is it worth learning and paying the 12x the
price for less throughput?
Cisco ASR 1001 2.5gbps throughput = $6,680
Cisco Licence for 10gbps throughput = $13,099
Total for 1 Cisco router + Repair of current + 1 Spare = $41,558

vs Mikrotik
Supermicro SuperServer 5018D-FN8T + 16G mem + SSD = $986
CHR 10Gbps upload per interface = $95
Total for 2 routers + 1 spare = $3,243

Is Cisco still the better option? would it be better to say use 3 MK
routers in VRRP with one spare so 2 can fail and not be a problem?

-- 
David Jones
NGL Connection
307-288-5491 ext 702
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