Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
IANAL, but how could you offer spam or virus filtering and not be able to offer other types of filtering. As long as you spell out in your terms for the service that it is not 100% and that you are not responsible if something does slip through I don't see how you could be financially responsible for harm. Hmm, that brings up a good question, does anyone have a terms of service on their email filtering? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless David E. Smith wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Sorry to be coming in late on this thread... are we talking about content filtering? Like not allowing playboy.com to people that want that type service? If so, we have been doing that for over 5 years. Schools, libraries, government agencies, residential users, etc. all pay extra (from $1/month to $100/month depending on number of users and load). That's exactly what we're talking about - I'm specifically concerned about the legal implications of an ISP offering it, not whether it's fiscally viable. (That's pretty much a given - something like DansGuardian and some clever firewalling/routing voodoo can be set up for virtually no cost, and there are plenty of other options depending on your network topology and your budget.) I'm curious as to whether an ISP offering content filtering incurs any extra legal exposure, and risks losing common-carrier status if, for instance, someone pays for block the porn! and some porn gets through anyway. Most of the case law on this subject that I've seen is five to ten years old, which is an eternity in Internet years. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
what 'protection' do I have as a small wisp? Only want to offer something similar to what my local competition already is. On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 2:18 PM, David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I'm looking into providing a 'family friendly' option to our services. At the risk of starting another one of those famous flamewars, is this (legally speaking) a sound idea? If you start modifying customers' traffic, even if it's at their request, doesn't that put you at risk of losing common-carrier protection if someone paying for filtering still sees naked women or other things they don't want to see? I promise this isn't a troll - I really am not too familiar with the law in this area, aside from the classic cases (Stratton Oakmont vs Prodigy, Section 230 of the CDA, and so on), and I'm certainly not a lawyer. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
rabbtux rabbtux wrote: what 'protection' do I have as a small wisp? Only want to offer something similar to what my local competition already is. That doesn't mean it's any wiser for them to offer the service than it would be for you - just that they might have already answered this question, or aren't smart enough even to ask, or have amazingly deep pockets, or... My boss has brought up this idea once or twice before, and this thread may well inspire him to ask about it again. The possibility of our being sued out of existence, however slim, is sufficient cause to to stop and think very carefully about offering this service, IMO. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
Sorry to be coming in late on this thread... are we talking about content filtering? Like not allowing playboy.com to people that want that type service? If so, we have been doing that for over 5 years. Schools, libraries, government agencies, residential users, etc. all pay "extra" (from $1/month to $100/month depending on number of users and load). Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: rabbtux rabbtux wrote: what 'protection' do I have as a small wisp? Only want to offer something similar to what my local competition already is. That doesn't mean it's any wiser for them to offer the service than it would be for you - just that they might have already answered this question, or aren't smart enough even to ask, or have amazingly deep pockets, or... My boss has brought up this idea once or twice before, and this thread may well inspire him to ask about it again. The possibility of our being sued out of existence, however slim, is sufficient cause to to stop and think very carefully about offering this service, IMO. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
Travis Johnson wrote: Sorry to be coming in late on this thread... are we talking about content filtering? Like not allowing playboy.com to people that want that type service? If so, we have been doing that for over 5 years. Schools, libraries, government agencies, residential users, etc. all pay extra (from $1/month to $100/month depending on number of users and load). That's exactly what we're talking about - I'm specifically concerned about the legal implications of an ISP offering it, not whether it's fiscally viable. (That's pretty much a given - something like DansGuardian and some clever firewalling/routing voodoo can be set up for virtually no cost, and there are plenty of other options depending on your network topology and your budget.) I'm curious as to whether an ISP offering content filtering incurs any extra legal exposure, and risks losing common-carrier status if, for instance, someone pays for block the porn! and some porn gets through anyway. Most of the case law on this subject that I've seen is five to ten years old, which is an eternity in Internet years. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
Hi, We've never had a legal issue in all the years we have offered the service. We tell people "nothing is 100%, but this will do 99%, but if they are looking for it, they will find it anyway". Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Sorry to be coming in late on this thread... are we talking about content filtering? Like not allowing playboy.com to people that want that type service? If so, we have been doing that for over 5 years. Schools, libraries, government agencies, residential users, etc. all pay "extra" (from $1/month to $100/month depending on number of users and load). That's exactly what we're talking about - I'm specifically concerned about the legal implications of an ISP offering it, not whether it's fiscally viable. (That's pretty much a given - something like DansGuardian and some clever firewalling/routing voodoo can be set up for virtually no cost, and there are plenty of other options depending on your network topology and your budget.) I'm curious as to whether an ISP offering content filtering incurs any extra legal exposure, and risks losing common-carrier status if, for instance, someone pays for "block the porn!" and some porn gets through anyway. Most of the case law on this subject that I've seen is five to ten years old, which is an eternity in Internet years. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
TRAVIS, Please, what are you using? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 2:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions Sorry to be coming in late on this thread... are we talking about content filtering? Like not allowing playboy.com to people that want that type service? If so, we have been doing that for over 5 years. Schools, libraries, government agencies, residential users, etc. all pay extra (from $1/month to $100/month depending on number of users and load). Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: rabbtux rabbtux wrote: what 'protection' do I have as a small wisp? Only want to offer something similar to what my local competition already is. That doesn't mean it's any wiser for them to offer the service than it would be for you - just that they might have already answered this question, or aren't smart enough even to ask, or have amazingly deep pockets, or... My boss has brought up this idea once or twice before, and this thread may well inspire him to ask about it again. The possibility of our being sued out of existence, however slim, is sufficient cause to to stop and think very carefully about offering this service, IMO. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
www.8e6.com I can tell you it's not cheap. It costs us about $12,000 per year for the service. YMMV depending on the size of your network, number of users, etc. Travis Microserv CHUCK PROFITO wrote: TRAVIS, Please, what are you using? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 2:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions Sorry to be coming in late on this thread... are we talking about content filtering? Like not allowing playboy.com to people that want that type service? If so, we have been doing that for over 5 years. Schools, libraries, government agencies, residential users, etc. all pay extra (from $1/month to $100/month depending on number of users and load). Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: rabbtux rabbtux wrote: what 'protection' do I have as a small wisp? Only want to offer something similar to what my local competition already is. That doesn't mean it's any wiser for them to offer the service than it would be for you - just that they might have already answered this question, or aren't smart enough even to ask, or have amazingly deep pockets, or... My boss has brought up this idea once or twice before, and this thread may well inspire him to ask about it again. The possibility of our being sued out of existence, however slim, is sufficient cause to to stop and think very carefully about offering this service, IMO. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
On Thu, 29 May 2008, rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I'm looking into providing a 'family friendly' option to our services. Would like to provide a solution to end customers that requires no software, just call us. I've used Dansguardian before, but it might be difficult to mantain a 'one size fits all' proxy for customers. Who out there is offering this type of service, and what are the simple (and profitable) ways of doing it?? You may want to look at OpenDNS (www.opendns.com) as a possible solution. It allows you to configure the components that you block and is a really easy thing to do. All you would have to do is set up your network with them, then redirect their DNS traffic to the opendns servers. That's all there is to it. -- *Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation * *Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS * *573-276-2879 *ImageStream * *http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE * *Mikrotik Certified Consultant *Wired or Wireless Networks* WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
All, I'm looking into providing a 'family friendly' option to our services. Would like to provide a solution to end customers that requires no software, just call us. I've used Dansguardian before, but it might be difficult to mantain a 'one size fits all' proxy for customers. Who out there is offering this type of service, and what are the simple (and profitable) ways of doing it?? Thanks, marshall WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
have you tried looking at this? http://www.untangle.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=344Itemid=747 --- rabbtux rabbtux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All, I'm looking into providing a 'family friendly' option to our services. Would like to provide a solution to end customers that requires no software, just call us. I've used Dansguardian before, but it might be difficult to mantain a 'one size fits all' proxy for customers. Who out there is offering this type of service, and what are the simple (and profitable) ways of doing it?? Thanks, marshall WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
We've been using 8e6 for ages. It just works. You don't have to put it in-line with your traffic or set it as a proxy, so it's not a single point of failure. It can sit on a switch monitor port and just sniff all traffic going through that switch. If it finds something to block, it will preempt/hijack the reply packet and redirect to a block page. We are using RADIUS and PPPOE, so we can even set it to only block certain users, and define their profiles (ie: some may need myspace, others won't). If you don't use radius, you can have it block by IP. It's costly to get started, but we've been quite profitable with it. Only downside is if you have a customer whose traffic doesn't go past the filtering box you can't filter him. That's where a software solution comes in. I think they have one now that actually talks to the main filtering box, but we haven't bothered with it. Randy rabbtux rabbtux wrote: All, I'm looking into providing a 'family friendly' option to our services. Would like to provide a solution to end customers that requires no software, just call us. I've used Dansguardian before, but it might be difficult to mantain a 'one size fits all' proxy for customers. Who out there is offering this type of service, and what are the simple (and profitable) ways of doing it?? Thanks, marshall WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc office: 435-773-6071 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 'family friendly' isp filtering solutions
rabbtux rabbtux wrote: I'm looking into providing a 'family friendly' option to our services. At the risk of starting another one of those famous flamewars, is this (legally speaking) a sound idea? If you start modifying customers' traffic, even if it's at their request, doesn't that put you at risk of losing common-carrier protection if someone paying for filtering still sees naked women or other things they don't want to see? I promise this isn't a troll - I really am not too familiar with the law in this area, aside from the classic cases (Stratton Oakmont vs Prodigy, Section 230 of the CDA, and so on), and I'm certainly not a lawyer. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
