Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
It all has to do with the slope of the approach and take-off from a runway. If you were directly in the path of the runway, then you'd probably need a study to determine if the tower presents a hazard to air navigation, but at 10 miles, even if you were in-line, at 100 feet, I'd say you are probably not going to be required to light and mark. The radio station probably painted the red and white as a CYA measure, or they just didn't know the regs. As for painting all white...who the hell knows. Cameron On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.comwrote: I have a 100 foot guyed tower on top of a hill, it was previously an FM Radio station, they moved their site, sold us the site, but continue to use this site for STL's. Since then I've added the Fire Department and a low power radio station plus my own equipment. The tower was never lighted but was red and white paint. When the FM moved off it they painted it white. Can you tell me the purpose of why they painted it and how, especially being 10 miles from an approach why we don't have to light it? Thanks, Forbes On 12/3/2010 4:42 PM, Christopher Hair wrote: Thanks for all the input. I found this document on the FAA website about Obstruction Marking and Lighting if anyone is interested for future reference . Its dated 2007. *53. POLES, TOWERS, AND SIMILAR SKELETAL* *STRUCTURES* The following standards apply to radio and television towers, supporting structures for overhead transmission lines, and similar structures. *a**. Top Mounted Obstruction Light.* *1. Structures 150 Feet (46m) AGL or Less**. *Two or more steady burning (L-810) lights should be installed in a manner to ensure an unobstructed view of one or more lights by a pilot. *2**. Structures Exceeding 150 Feet (46m) AGL.* At least one red flashing (L-864) beacon should be installed in a manner to ensure an unobstructed view of one or more lights by a pilot. *3**. Appurtenances 40 Feet (12m) or Less. *If a rod, antenna, or other appurtenance 40 feet (12m) or less in height is incapable of supporting a red flashing beacon, then it may be placed at the base of the appurtenance. If the mounting location does not allow unobstructed viewing of the beacon by a pilot, then additional beacons should be added. *4**. Appurtenances Exceeding 40 Feet (12m). *If a rod, antenna, or other appurtenance exceeding 40 feet (12m) in height is incapable of supporting a red flashing beacon, a supporting mast with one or more beacons should be installed adjacent to the appurtenance. Adjacent installations should not exceed the height of the appurtenance and be within 40 feet (12m) of the tip to allow the pilot an unobstructed view of at least one beacon. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Webster *Sent:* Friday, December 03, 2010 12:43 PM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower Helicopters fly at night and in the worst visibility conditions. They fly slow and hover. If there is a particular vector or direction that an antenna blocks the visibility of the beacon light it can cause these types of accidents. A helicopter would linger in a blind spot of the obstructed tower light much longer than a plane would and depending on their direction of flight could be in the blind spot for their whole flight. I too was a lighting compliance expert for a tower company. I filed hundreds of these applications and had the software to do advanced studies near airports that had precision instrument approaches. Many people do not realize that when they construct a 190 or so tower that the crane will be taller than 200ft during construction. You are required to file for a clearance for that crane to exceed the 200ft height even if it is temporary. While they can’t do anything to you if you don’t file, your insurance carrier will not touch any payout on a claim if it is discovered you did not do the proper paperwork. For liability reasons people want to see that letter from the FAA saying that it is not a hazard to navigation. Another big topic that most people do not realize is that you are also required to run your towers through your state DOT office (They all have an airspace group). They also have the authority to require you to light a tower. Normally the FAA will notify the proper state when you file for a site, but that does not absolve you of your requirement to make sure it has been done. I had a tower in the state of Washington where the FAA said no problem but the state DOT required us to light it. It was in a mountain pass along I-90. Their reasoning was that planes will fly below the cloud cover and follow the valley often with low clearances. They felt the tower should be lit for those circumstances. We had no choice
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
In our area, there are a good number of used towers installed. This could be a used tower that came from an area where it needed painting and lighting. Obviously lights are a lot easier to remove than paint. Many municipal towers are hand-me-down used towers from war surplus, all installed before I was born, with civil defense earmarks. It might need paint to prevent corrosion and they painted it white when it was due for it or because that was a convenient time. On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 05:22:38PM -0800, Forbes Mercy wrote: I have a 100 foot guyed tower on top of a hill, it was previously an FM Radio station, they moved their site, sold us the site, but continue to use this site for STL's. Since then I've added the Fire Department and a low power radio station plus my own equipment. The tower was never lighted but was red and white paint. When the FM moved off it they painted it white. Can you tell me the purpose of why they painted it and how, especially being 10 miles from an approach why we don't have to light it? Thanks, Forbes -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
My first job out of college was working as an RF engineer for Sprint Cellular. One of the joyful tasks I had to do as a very junior engineer was audit FCC and FAA filings for about 500 cell sites along the eastern seaboard. The regulations then, and I believe still, are that nothing is supposed to be higher than the top light and that anything that does exceed that height requires a submission of a notice of proposed change, an approval for such change, and then a notice of completion once the change has been made. In addition, if you do exceed that height, you must raise the light so that it is at least even with the highest point of any attachments that protrude from the top of the tower. All that being said, if the tower does not require lighting, then you can do whatever you want. Some cities light every water tower even though there is no requirement to do so. If the tower is not registered with the FAA, and your attachments don't exceed a height that requires you to register, then bolt away. Otherwise, it is best to stay in compliance. I forgot to mention that the reason I had to do the audit, was because Sprint failed to temporarily light a tower under construction. A care flight helicopter transporting a crash victim smacked it and everyone died. Cameron On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:11 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: If you cant then every government emergency service agency around here is in trouble! On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: At what height must a beacon light be placed on a tower. Can anything be mounted above the beacon light? Or must the beacon be at the highest point on the tower? I have done several searches an cannot find a sound answer? Need to mount 4 PMP 320 sector antennas that would be 6' to 8' above a beacon light on a water tower. Tower is 185' tall. See attached photo. -Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
I'm not surprised but what I find interesting is this: How does a few feet make a difference to a helicopter or airplane? Why would you be that close to a tower either way? On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote: My first job out of college was working as an RF engineer for Sprint Cellular. One of the joyful tasks I had to do as a very junior engineer was audit FCC and FAA filings for about 500 cell sites along the eastern seaboard. The regulations then, and I believe still, are that nothing is supposed to be higher than the top light and that anything that does exceed that height requires a submission of a notice of proposed change, an approval for such change, and then a notice of completion once the change has been made. In addition, if you do exceed that height, you must raise the light so that it is at least even with the highest point of any attachments that protrude from the top of the tower. All that being said, if the tower does not require lighting, then you can do whatever you want. Some cities light every water tower even though there is no requirement to do so. If the tower is not registered with the FAA, and your attachments don't exceed a height that requires you to register, then bolt away. Otherwise, it is best to stay in compliance. I forgot to mention that the reason I had to do the audit, was because Sprint failed to temporarily light a tower under construction. A care flight helicopter transporting a crash victim smacked it and everyone died. Cameron On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:11 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: If you cant then every government emergency service agency around here is in trouble! On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: At what height must a beacon light be placed on a tower. Can anything be mounted above the beacon light? Or must the beacon be at the highest point on the tower? I have done several searches an cannot find a sound answer? Need to mount 4 PMP 320 sector antennas that would be 6' to 8' above a beacon light on a water tower. Tower is 185' tall. See attached photo. -Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
Because the obstruction MAY block the light from the pilot's view from certain angles. As for why are they close anyway? They may not know the tower is there - EXAMPLE: EMS Helo's often fly into strange areas at the request of local public safety. Another reason is that weather related visibility may take a sudden drastic change - which is one of the primary reason's why strobes/beacons are required on many objects of certain heights AGL or ASL Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 ICQ: 206889374 GVoice: 207.518.8455 GTalk: aaron.osgood aosg...@streamline-solutions.net http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.streamline-solutions.net/ Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower I'm not surprised but what I find interesting is this: How does a few feet make a difference to a helicopter or airplane? Why would you be that close to a tower either way? On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote: My first job out of college was working as an RF engineer for Sprint Cellular. One of the joyful tasks I had to do as a very junior engineer was audit FCC and FAA filings for about 500 cell sites along the eastern seaboard. The regulations then, and I believe still, are that nothing is supposed to be higher than the top light and that anything that does exceed that height requires a submission of a notice of proposed change, an approval for such change, and then a notice of completion once the change has been made. In addition, if you do exceed that height, you must raise the light so that it is at least even with the highest point of any attachments that protrude from the top of the tower. All that being said, if the tower does not require lighting, then you can do whatever you want. Some cities light every water tower even though there is no requirement to do so. If the tower is not registered with the FAA, and your attachments don't exceed a height that requires you to register, then bolt away. Otherwise, it is best to stay in compliance. I forgot to mention that the reason I had to do the audit, was because Sprint failed to temporarily light a tower under construction. A care flight helicopter transporting a crash victim smacked it and everyone died. Cameron On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:11 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: If you cant then every government emergency service agency around here is in trouble! On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: At what height must a beacon light be placed on a tower. Can anything be mounted above the beacon light? Or must the beacon be at the highest point on the tower? I have done several searches an cannot find a sound answer? Need to mount 4 PMP 320 sector antennas that would be 6' to 8' above a beacon light on a water tower. Tower is 185' tall. See attached photo. -Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
Good answer. I dont fly which is why I asked. Thanks! On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Aaron D. Osgood aosg...@streamline-solutions.net wrote: Because the obstruction MAY block the light from the pilot’s view from certain angles. As for why are they close anyway? They may not know the tower is there – EXAMPLE: EMS Helo’s often fly into strange areas at the request of local public safety. Another reason is that weather related visibility may take a sudden drastic change – which is one of the primary reason’s why strobes/beacons are required on many objects of certain heights AGL or ASL Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 ICQ: 206889374 GVoice: 207.518.8455 GTalk: aaron.osgood aosg...@streamline-solutions.net http://www.streamline-solutions.net Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *RickG *Sent:* Friday, December 03, 2010 11:45 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower I'm not surprised but what I find interesting is this: How does a few feet make a difference to a helicopter or airplane? Why would you be that close to a tower either way? On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote: My first job out of college was working as an RF engineer for Sprint Cellular. One of the joyful tasks I had to do as a very junior engineer was audit FCC and FAA filings for about 500 cell sites along the eastern seaboard. The regulations then, and I believe still, are that nothing is supposed to be higher than the top light and that anything that does exceed that height requires a submission of a notice of proposed change, an approval for such change, and then a notice of completion once the change has been made. In addition, if you do exceed that height, you must raise the light so that it is at least even with the highest point of any attachments that protrude from the top of the tower. All that being said, if the tower does not require lighting, then you can do whatever you want. Some cities light every water tower even though there is no requirement to do so. If the tower is not registered with the FAA, and your attachments don't exceed a height that requires you to register, then bolt away. Otherwise, it is best to stay in compliance. I forgot to mention that the reason I had to do the audit, was because Sprint failed to temporarily light a tower under construction. A care flight helicopter transporting a crash victim smacked it and everyone died. Cameron On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:11 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: If you cant then every government emergency service agency around here is in trouble! On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: At what height must a beacon light be placed on a tower. Can anything be mounted above the beacon light? Or must the beacon be at the highest point on the tower? I have done several searches an cannot find a sound answer? Need to mount 4 PMP 320 sector antennas that would be 6' to 8' above a beacon light on a water tower. Tower is 185' tall. See attached photo. -Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
Helicopters fly at night and in the worst visibility conditions. They fly slow and hover. If there is a particular vector or direction that an antenna blocks the visibility of the beacon light it can cause these types of accidents. A helicopter would linger in a blind spot of the obstructed tower light much longer than a plane would and depending on their direction of flight could be in the blind spot for their whole flight. I too was a lighting compliance expert for a tower company. I filed hundreds of these applications and had the software to do advanced studies near airports that had precision instrument approaches. Many people do not realize that when they construct a 190 or so tower that the crane will be taller than 200ft during construction. You are required to file for a clearance for that crane to exceed the 200ft height even if it is temporary. While they can't do anything to you if you don't file, your insurance carrier will not touch any payout on a claim if it is discovered you did not do the proper paperwork. For liability reasons people want to see that letter from the FAA saying that it is not a hazard to navigation. Another big topic that most people do not realize is that you are also required to run your towers through your state DOT office (They all have an airspace group). They also have the authority to require you to light a tower. Normally the FAA will notify the proper state when you file for a site, but that does not absolve you of your requirement to make sure it has been done. I had a tower in the state of Washington where the FAA said no problem but the state DOT required us to light it. It was in a mountain pass along I-90. Their reasoning was that planes will fly below the cloud cover and follow the valley often with low clearances. They felt the tower should be lit for those circumstances. We had no choice but to light it. It does not cost much time or money to have a tower studied and then file with the FAA. To eliminate the risk of making a mistake and not meeting the proper criteria I think it's foolish not to go through the process for every new structure you build just to cover your butt. Relying solely on the TOWAIR tool on the FCC web site and/or the tool on the FAA web site makes me nervous, many times I found them to be wrong in situations where you are close to a public airfield or in the path of an instrument procedure. Instrument approaches can have an effect up to 10 nautical miles from the end of a runway. www.airspaceusa.com has an excellent team who can help especially in difficult situations. I have no financial interest in the company but did work with them in the past and found them to be top notch. Their President is a retired FAA airspace expert. Thank You, Brian Webster Skype: Radiowebst www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 11:45 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower I'm not surprised but what I find interesting is this: How does a few feet make a difference to a helicopter or airplane? Why would you be that close to a tower either way? On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote: My first job out of college was working as an RF engineer for Sprint Cellular. One of the joyful tasks I had to do as a very junior engineer was audit FCC and FAA filings for about 500 cell sites along the eastern seaboard. The regulations then, and I believe still, are that nothing is supposed to be higher than the top light and that anything that does exceed that height requires a submission of a notice of proposed change, an approval for such change, and then a notice of completion once the change has been made. In addition, if you do exceed that height, you must raise the light so that it is at least even with the highest point of any attachments that protrude from the top of the tower. All that being said, if the tower does not require lighting, then you can do whatever you want. Some cities light every water tower even though there is no requirement to do so. If the tower is not registered with the FAA, and your attachments don't exceed a height that requires you to register, then bolt away. Otherwise, it is best to stay in compliance. I forgot to mention that the reason I had to do the audit, was because Sprint failed to temporarily light a tower under construction. A care flight helicopter transporting a crash victim smacked it and everyone died. Cameron On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:11 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: If you cant then every government emergency service agency around here is in trouble! On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
I have a 100 foot guyed tower on top of a hill, it was previously an FM Radio station, they moved their site, sold us the site, but continue to use this site for STL's. Since then I've added the Fire Department and a low power radio station plus my own equipment. The tower was never lighted but was red and white paint. When the FM moved off it they painted it white. Can you tell me the purpose of why they painted it and how, especially being 10 miles from an approach why we don't have to light it? Thanks, Forbes On 12/3/2010 4:42 PM, Christopher Hair wrote: Thanks for all the input. I found this document on the FAA website about Obstruction Marking and Lighting if anyone is interested for future reference . Its dated 2007. *53. POLES, TOWERS, AND SIMILAR SKELETAL* *STRUCTURES* The following standards apply to radio and television towers, supporting structures for overhead transmission lines, and similar structures. *a*/. *Top Mounted Obstruction Light.*/ *1/. Structures 150 Feet (46m) AGL or Less/*/. /Two or more steady burning (L-810) lights should be installed in a manner to ensure an unobstructed view of one or more lights by a pilot. *2*/. *Structures Exceeding 150 Feet (46m) AGL*./ At least one red flashing (L-864) beacon should be installed in a manner to ensure an unobstructed view of one or more lights by a pilot. *3*/. *Appurtenances 40 Feet (12m) or Less*. /If a rod, antenna, or other appurtenance 40 feet (12m) or less in height is incapable of supporting a red flashing beacon, then it may be placed at the base of the appurtenance. If the mounting location does not allow unobstructed viewing of the beacon by a pilot, then additional beacons should be added. *4*/. *Appurtenances Exceeding 40 Feet (12m*). /If a rod, antenna, or other appurtenance exceeding 40 feet (12m) in height is incapable of supporting a red flashing beacon, a supporting mast with one or more beacons should be installed adjacent to the appurtenance. Adjacent installations should not exceed the height of the appurtenance and be within 40 feet (12m) of the tip to allow the pilot an unobstructed view of at least one beacon. *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Brian Webster *Sent:* Friday, December 03, 2010 12:43 PM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower Helicopters fly at night and in the worst visibility conditions. They fly slow and hover. If there is a particular vector or direction that an antenna blocks the visibility of the beacon light it can cause these types of accidents. A helicopter would linger in a blind spot of the obstructed tower light much longer than a plane would and depending on their direction of flight could be in the blind spot for their whole flight. I too was a lighting compliance expert for a tower company. I filed hundreds of these applications and had the software to do advanced studies near airports that had precision instrument approaches. Many people do not realize that when they construct a 190 or so tower that the crane will be taller than 200ft during construction. You are required to file for a clearance for that crane to exceed the 200ft height even if it is temporary. While they can't do anything to you if you don't file, your insurance carrier will not touch any payout on a claim if it is discovered you did not do the proper paperwork. For liability reasons people want to see that letter from the FAA saying that it is not a hazard to navigation. Another big topic that most people do not realize is that you are also required to run your towers through your state DOT office (They all have an airspace group). They also have the authority to require you to light a tower. Normally the FAA will notify the proper state when you file for a site, but that does not absolve you of your requirement to make sure it has been done. I had a tower in the state of Washington where the FAA said no problem but the state DOT required us to light it. It was in a mountain pass along I-90. Their reasoning was that planes will fly below the cloud cover and follow the valley often with low clearances. They felt the tower should be lit for those circumstances. We had no choice but to light it. It does not cost much time or money to have a tower studied and then file with the FAA. To eliminate the risk of making a mistake and not meeting the proper criteria I think it's foolish not to go through the process for every new structure you build just to cover your butt. Relying solely on the TOWAIR tool on the FCC web site and/or the tool on the FAA web site makes me nervous, many times I found them to be wrong in situations where you are close to a public airfield or in the path of an instrument procedure. Instrument approaches can have an effect up to 10 nautical miles from the end of a runway. www.airspaceusa.com http
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: At what height must a beacon light be placed on a tower. Can anything be mounted above the beacon light? Or must the beacon be at the highest point on the tower? I have done several searches an cannot find a sound answer? Need to mount 4 PMP 320 sector antennas that would be 6' to 8' above a beacon light on a water tower. Tower is 185' tall. See attached photo. -Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
Check with the FAA FSDO that covers the area Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect -Original Message- From: Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 21:23:56 To: motor...@afmug.com; 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question about beacon lights rules on a tower
If you cant then every government emergency service agency around here is in trouble! On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I know you can mount above it. Tons of towers around here do. On Dec 2, 2010 9:24 PM, Christopher Hair wirele...@ntinet.com wrote: At what height must a beacon light be placed on a tower. Can anything be mounted above the beacon light? Or must the beacon be at the highest point on the tower? I have done several searches an cannot find a sound answer? Need to mount 4 PMP 320 sector antennas that would be 6' to 8' above a beacon light on a water tower. Tower is 185' tall. See attached photo. -Chris WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
