Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..the lawyers win most
Only if all radios were required to use the same time slot assignments. That would make full duplex links impossible (or at least hinder them greatly since they would have to have a down time not to step on another radios RX period) On 6/9/07, Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WiMAX, scheduled Canopy, and any other system that can be synchronized -- i.e. automatically cooperate -- with like systems, but cannot sense and deal with other resident systems are confined to the lower 25 MHz. If all units were required to use GPS sync I think the band would be a much better option. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..the lawyers win most
WiMAX, scheduled Canopy, and any other system that can be synchronized -- i.e. automatically cooperate -- with like systems, but cannot sense and deal with other resident systems are confined to the lower 25 MHz. If all units were required to use GPS sync I think the band would be a much better option. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..the lawyers win most
Jack, My read is 100% the same: any system with a protocol that can sense AND try to avoid other resident systems, like or dissimilar in protocol, will be allowed to operate across the entire band. WiMAX, scheduled Canopy, and any other system that can be synchronized -- i.e. automatically cooperate -- with like systems, but cannot sense and deal with other resident systems are confined to the lower 25 MHz. However, it is worthy to note that WiMAX can be deployed in the lower 25 MHz then be allowed to use the entire 50 MHz at a later date IF the installed system can at some point be upgraded to deal with non-restricted products. 806.16h, which will meet this burden, is expected be a software upgrade that will be able to be applied to 802.16e products. In the end, the FCC strove to strike a balance between QoS capable technology vs. fast time to market. In the end I think the band gets populated quickly and there will be a point at which systems with cooperate so much via their contention systems that actual real bandwidth availability will take some careful management not dissimilar from the P15 bands. The only problem is that this time around, the RO language tells WISPs that others MUST cooperate so all will have more legal standing to bring others to the table. This actually will be a new challenge for WISPs as it forces them into the legal arena more fully than P15, which is basically a free for all. The real winners are our friends in the legal profession. I submit (Larry, et al) that a modest nice little practice can be made by providing 3650 arbitration services. :) Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 2:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. As I read it, the FCC says that contention-based protocols that are capable of detecting signals that are using *both* *similar* and *non-similar* protocols (and thereby deferring transmission to avoid generating interference) can be legally used over the entire 50 MHz band but protocols that are capable of detecting *only similar protocols* or that are *scheduling-based *must be used only in the bottom 25 MHz. Other things being equal, this means that the bottom 25 MHz will be noisier (more dissimilar non-CSMA protocols allowed) and the top 25 MHz will be quieter. The examples the FCC used (I know it seems funny or maybe ironic, depending on your point of view) is that WiMAX is limited to the bottom 25 MHz because it uses a scheduling protocol which does not listen for transmissions that use other protocols before it (WiMAX) transmits. In comparison, Wi-Fi-like protocols *do* listen before transmitting and are capable of detecting the presence of other (non-Wi-Fi) protocol transmissions and deferring their own transmission until the channel is quiet. Wi-Fi-like protocols therefore *can be* used across the entire 50 MHz band. It looks like only certified products will be allowed. It seems to me that Mikrotik or other software (with proper channel/power restrictions built in) combined with a Ubiquiti 3.6 GHz card could serve as the basis for a line of reasonably-priced full-band WISP equipment. If CSMA is disabled then only the bottom half of the band will be usable and likely only if the Point Coordination Function (PCF) is enabled for the entire system. jack Patrick Leary wrote: I would hope any WISP worth serious about its being a business (versus a hobby) should be at least roughly familiar with the issue and the fact that a decision was being re-evaluated. At my read, it looks like ALL listen-before-talk type BWA products will be certifiable under the rule for use in all 50 MHz. But -- and yee haw for this -- no license is provided WITHOUT the operator entering the FCC equipment authorization number for the intended product. This means this band will be largely free from illegal systems -- if a vendor wants to play in the space, they have to do the minimal work required to make themselves legal to do so. All should rejoice at this. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I just hope systems like Mikrotik w/ Ubiquiti SR3s/ XR3s(eventually) can be made certified under 3650. That will keep the equipment low priced AND able to use the whole band. And in CSMA disable mode, only the lower half of the band. I think that in major cities 3650 coordination may become an eventual issue if the major carriers jump on this (like cell, Clearwire, etc). But most rural
Re: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today..the lawyers win most
Patrick, How soon after the RO comes out can we expect to see Alvarion branded product ready to ship that can be registered and used in the 3650 band? What will it cost? Will it be WiMAX or contention based? I think I would like to be one of the first in line to register a link. I call shotgun! :-) Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: Jack, My read is 100% the same: any system with a protocol that can sense AND try to avoid other resident systems, like or dissimilar in protocol, will be allowed to operate across the entire band. WiMAX, scheduled Canopy, and any other system that can be synchronized -- i.e. automatically cooperate -- with like systems, but cannot sense and deal with other resident systems are confined to the lower 25 MHz. However, it is worthy to note that WiMAX can be deployed in the lower 25 MHz then be allowed to use the entire 50 MHz at a later date IF the installed system can at some point be upgraded to deal with non-restricted products. 806.16h, which will meet this burden, is expected be a software upgrade that will be able to be applied to 802.16e products. In the end, the FCC strove to strike a balance between QoS capable technology vs. fast time to market. In the end I think the band gets populated quickly and there will be a point at which systems with cooperate so much via their contention systems that actual real bandwidth availability will take some careful management not dissimilar from the P15 bands. The only problem is that this time around, the RO language tells WISPs that others MUST cooperate so all will have more legal standing to bring others to the table. This actually will be a new challenge for WISPs as it forces them into the legal arena more fully than P15, which is basically a free for all. The real winners are our friends in the legal profession. I submit (Larry, et al) that a modest nice little practice can be made by providing 3650 arbitration services. :) Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 2:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. As I read it, the FCC says that contention-based protocols that are capable of detecting signals that are using *both* *similar* and *non-similar* protocols (and thereby deferring transmission to avoid generating interference) can be legally used over the entire 50 MHz band but protocols that are capable of detecting *only similar protocols* or that are *scheduling-based *must be used only in the bottom 25 MHz. Other things being equal, this means that the bottom 25 MHz will be noisier (more dissimilar non-CSMA protocols allowed) and the top 25 MHz will be quieter. The examples the FCC used (I know it seems funny or maybe ironic, depending on your point of view) is that WiMAX is limited to the bottom 25 MHz because it uses a scheduling protocol which does not listen for transmissions that use other protocols before it (WiMAX) transmits. In comparison, Wi-Fi-like protocols *do* listen before transmitting and are capable of detecting the presence of other (non-Wi-Fi) protocol transmissions and deferring their own transmission until the channel is quiet. Wi-Fi-like protocols therefore *can be* used across the entire 50 MHz band. It looks like only certified products will be allowed. It seems to me that Mikrotik or other software (with proper channel/power restrictions built in) combined with a Ubiquiti 3.6 GHz card could serve as the basis for a line of reasonably-priced full-band WISP equipment. If CSMA is disabled then only the bottom half of the band will be usable and likely only if the Point Coordination Function (PCF) is enabled for the entire system. jack Patrick Leary wrote: I would hope any WISP worth serious about its being a business (versus a hobby) should be at least roughly familiar with the issue and the fact that a decision was being re-evaluated. At my read, it looks like ALL listen-before-talk type BWA products will be certifiable under the rule for use in all 50 MHz. But -- and yee haw for this -- no license is provided WITHOUT the operator entering the FCC equipment authorization number for the intended product. This means this band will be largely free from illegal systems -- if a vendor wants to play in the space, they have to do the minimal work required to make themselves legal to do so. All should rejoice at this. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Re: [WISPA FCC] FCC 3650 band response today.. I just hope systems
