Re: [WISPA] Throttle
What kind of Linux system do you use at the NOC to do this? -- ~Ron Calhoun On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:51 AM, sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Majority is Mikrotik for cpe with some trango mixed. The tower routers/bandwidth limiting is done via Mikrotik as well. Tower units are RB600 or PC based Mikrotik. Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. What kind of router and cpe? Much of this will depend on the answers to those questions. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the configuration. The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John Buwa Michiana Wireless Phone: 574-233-7170 http://www.michianawireless.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
Mikrotik, it appears. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Ron Calhoun rons.wirel...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Throttle What kind of Linux system do you use at the NOC to do this? -- ~Ron Calhoun On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:51 AM, sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Majority is Mikrotik for cpe with some trango mixed. The tower routers/bandwidth limiting is done via Mikrotik as well. Tower units are RB600 or PC based Mikrotik. Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. What kind of router and cpe? Much of this will depend on the answers to those questions. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the configuration. The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John Buwa Michiana Wireless Phone: 574-233-7170 http://www.michianawireless.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 09:39 -0400, Ron Calhoun wrote: What kind of Linux system do you use at the NOC to do this? Do to what? I'm not sure I understand the question. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
Majority is Mikrotik for cpe with some trango mixed. The tower routers/bandwidth limiting is done via Mikrotik as well. Tower units are RB600 or PC based Mikrotik. Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. What kind of router and cpe? Much of this will depend on the answers to those questions. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the configuration. The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John Buwa Michiana Wireless Phone: 574-233-7170 http://www.michianawireless.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Throttle
Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
We throttle at the CPE where we have the ability. Our reasoning is that the less traffic there is hitting the AP, the more users we can put on it, and the better experience everyone has. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of sa...@michianawireless.com Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Throttle Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
That should always be done at the CPE. Otherwise your over the air traffic stays high as devices keep trying to shove traffic through too small ports. marlon - Original Message - From: sa...@michianawireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:51 PM Subject: [WISPA] Throttle Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients... os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
I do the same but wonder if there is a better way? Doesnt this load unwanted traffic on the backhauls? -RickG On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Blair Davisthe...@wmwisp.net wrote: I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients... os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
What we've done to date is throttle at the CPE; we have always chosen cpe's with this capability. It was super important because we started in a very rural area with a satellite as our upstream...painful because of FAP's and such. We've moved on. The above method keeps the congestion lower over the wireless links, but it isn't perfect. Ideally, throttling is done at the data source only. If you throttle downloads at the CPE, when the customer requests data, ethernet dictates that the flow starts fast and then backs off as packets are dropped, which is exactly what the cpe does to throttle the flow. This wastes your network and upstream bandwidth. So, throttle downloads at your NOC as soon as possible in your network's flow. Throttle uploads at the CPE. This is what I am about to do on my network. I have everything in place; just got to throw the (linux based) switch. The linux box has big queues and won't waste as much of my upstream link this way. Also, if you cache or have a local email server, as we do, that stuff can go out to customers at a much higher rate. Their perceived speed's better when the google logo loads instantly ;-) My 2 cents, Jason RickG wrote: I do the same but wonder if there is a better way? Doesnt this load unwanted traffic on the backhauls? -RickG On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Blair Davisthe...@wmwisp.net wrote: I use MikroTik Queue's for my D/L limiting. My border router is big enough to handle quite a few clients... os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: I understood that download limiting can only be properly done by queuing and delaying the user's uplink requests/acks since managing the actual download traffic would involve dropping packets or queuing a large amount of data. This is according to the documentation of the Linux based firewalls I've tried which do QoS and bandwidth limiting. How are you accomplishing D/L limiting at the border router? Greg On Aug 4, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Blair Davis wrote: For 802.11 systems, I prefer to split it. I limit D/L, from internet to client, at the border router. This allows the limiting to be done before the traffic enters my wireless network, reducing congestion and load on my backhauls I limit U/L, from client to internet, at the cpe. This helps keep one cpe from monopolizing the 802.11 AP. In general, I try to limit traffic where it enters my network. YMMV sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Throttle
On Tue, 2009-08-04 at 01:51 -0400, sa...@michianawireless.com wrote: Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router? This depends on several things. If your cpe can handle it, I like to limit uploads (at the very least) on the cpe. Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle. What kind of router and cpe? Much of this will depend on the answers to those questions. But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower? There is no disadvantage given the fact that you will be scripting the configuration. The only real disadvantage is the management aspect, but with this being controlled centrally, there is no disadvantage at all. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
