Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
+1 on that! On 7/26/07, Ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Canopy can. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Can't sync 2.4 gig as I recall right? Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Hmmm. Would you want to change out 60ish customers? Will canopy go 17+ miles? Will canopy NOT interfere with all of the other systems in the area? Canopy works well, but it's not always the solution. What I need to find are wifi radios that have good rx and tx properties. I also need to find some better hpol sectors. marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:17 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] self inflicted interference What you need is Canopy Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:01 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference two different netgear switches. Using my laptop at the tower things always work as expected. Just when the customers are further away (lower signal levels) causes the problems. I've moved things further apart and the system is running better than it ever has. But it should still be better.. What I need are better radios. Something with better oob tx and rx stats. marlon - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Marlon, How are these APs hooked to each other? If you are using a hub, get a switch. If it is a switch, get a different switch. I have had this happen on 3 of my repeater sites. ryan On Jul 24, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems
RE: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Canopy can. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Can't sync 2.4 gig as I recall right? Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Can't sync 2.4 gig as I recall right? marlon - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Travis Johnson wrote: There are ways to do it without sync. I have over 120 Trango AP's (over 30 of them with omni antennas) all running perfectly. Some towers have as many as 4 AP's in the same band within 10ft of each other. The point of sync is that you don't generally have to think about where your AP's are located in relation to each other on the site unless you are re-using frequencies at the site. Many of my sites have 2 omni's within a few feet of each other, and on the same horizontal plane. We have one site which actually has two 120* sectors within 18 inches or so of each other, pointed in the same direction - and on adjacent freqencies (I.E. the Canopy equivalent of Trango's 5v and 6v). Without sync you have to think about things like separation and polarities and antenna patterns and so on to ensure that you get enough separation (frequency, distance, and/or polarization) between the AP's. Yes, you can do it. Yes, you can make it work. Yes, you can make it work well, but it's not easy. Just to clarify, the above is talking about synchronizing all radios at a specific site, not across your network. That's a whole different discussion. -forrest Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
1- about 3 years ago I changed about a 100 on about 5 POPs 2-It wil go more than that, furthest 5.7 customer I have is 18 miles, 22 miles on 2.4 3- ;-) Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 1:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Hmmm. Would you want to change out 60ish customers? Will canopy go 17+ miles? Will canopy NOT interfere with all of the other systems in the area? Canopy works well, but it's not always the solution. What I need to find are wifi radios that have good rx and tx properties. I also need to find some better hpol sectors. marlon - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:17 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] self inflicted interference What you need is Canopy Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:01 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference two different netgear switches. Using my laptop at the tower things always work as expected. Just when the customers are further away (lower signal levels) causes the problems. I've moved things further apart and the system is running better than it ever has. But it should still be better.. What I need are better radios. Something with better oob tx and rx stats. marlon - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Marlon, How are these APs hooked to each other? If you are using a hub, get a switch. If it is a switch, get a different switch. I have had this happen on 3 of my repeater sites. ryan On Jul 24, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Travis Johnson wrote: There are ways to do it without sync. I have over 120 Trango AP's (over 30 of them with omni antennas) all running perfectly. Some towers have as many as 4 AP's in the same band within 10ft of each other. The point of sync is that you don't generally have to think about where your AP's are located in relation to each other on the site unless you are re-using frequencies at the site. Many of my sites have 2 omni's within a few feet of each other, and on the same horizontal plane. We have one site which actually has two 120* sectors within 18 inches or so of each other, pointed in the same direction - and on adjacent freqencies (I.E. the Canopy equivalent of Trango's 5v and 6v). Without sync you have to think about things like separation and polarities and antenna patterns and so on to ensure that you get enough separation (frequency, distance, and/or polarization) between the AP's. Yes, you can do it. Yes, you can make it work. Yes, you can make it work well, but it's not easy. Just to clarify, the above is talking about synchronizing all radios at a specific site, not across your network. That's a whole different discussion. -forrest Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
What you need is Canopy Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:01 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference two different netgear switches. Using my laptop at the tower things always work as expected. Just when the customers are further away (lower signal levels) causes the problems. I've moved things further apart and the system is running better than it ever has. But it should still be better.. What I need are better radios. Something with better oob tx and rx stats. marlon - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Marlon, How are these APs hooked to each other? If you are using a hub, get a switch. If it is a switch, get a different switch. I have had this happen on 3 of my repeater sites. ryan On Jul 24, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
There are ways to do it without sync. I have over 120 Trango AP's (over 30 of them with omni antennas) all running perfectly. Some towers have as many as 4 AP's in the same band within 10ft of each other. Travis Microserv Forrest W Christian wrote: Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hmmm. Would you want to change out 60ish customers? Been there done that. Swapping out ~15 2.4Ghz 802.11b customers over the next two days to canopy. We swapped around 75 Trango customers when we first turned Canopy up. We've probably got around 100 802.11b's left on the net (30ish each on 3-4 Ap's) and they're slowly getting changed. Will canopy go 17+ miles? Yep... Trimmed to just show the relevant information: *LUID: 014* : MAC: 0a-00-3e-23-24-c0 http://172.19.74.67:1080/?mac_esn=0a003e2324c0 State: IN SESSION (Encrypt Active) Session Timeout: 0, AirDelay 2258 (approximately 20.95 miles (110642 feet)) Session Count: 2, Reg Count 1, Re-Reg Count 1 RSSI (Avg/Last): 810/817 Jitter (Avg/Last): 4/4 Power Level (Avg/Last): -76/-76 *LUID: 058* : MAC: 0a-00-3e-23-02-aa http://172.19.74.67:1080/?mac_esn=0a003e2302aa State: IN SESSION (Encrypt Active) Session Timeout: 0, AirDelay 2532 (approximately 23.50 miles (124068 feet)) Session Count: 3, Reg Count 2, Re-Reg Count 2 RSSI (Avg/Last): 903/905 Jitter (Avg/Last): 3/4 Power Level (Avg/Last): -69/-69 *LUID: 064* : MAC: 0a-00-3e-20-c4-07 http://172.19.74.67:1080/?mac_esn=0a003e20c407 State: IN SESSION (Encrypt Active) Session Timeout: 0, AirDelay 2552 (approximately 23.68 miles (125048 feet)) Session Count: 4, Reg Count 3, Re-Reg Count 1 RSSI (Avg/Last): 814/805 Jitter (Avg/Last): 4/3 Power Level (Avg/Last): -76/-76 Uptime on this particular AP is 24 days... to interpret the Session counts accordingly. I suspect the session counts shown are customer power-related issues during that period (lightning season) and not necessarily RF related. (RF problems generally cause a lot of Re-Regs). Will canopy NOT interfere with all of the other systems in the area? No more than any other loaded system will interfere. We have had 802.11b and 2.4 Canopy AP's on the same tower for weeks at a time during swap periods with very few problems - no more than you'd expect from having two collocated AP's. Most of the complaints people have with the Canopy stuff interfering with them is more related to poor RF engineering on the interferred with system (links running right at the edge, and the added ambient noise of another operator knocks them off the air). Properly engineered systems will generally survive a canopy deployment in the area. That said, Canopy will generally be the last man standing as noise goes up, which makes them look bad since the assumption is that since the Canopy system isn't being interfered with that it must be the cause. I used to believe that canopy was bad and evil but then finally had enough of trying to make 802.11b (and trango) work and then switched to Canopy. I'm not looking back. What I need to find are wifi radios that have good rx and tx properties. I also need to find some better hpol sectors. I'm not sure if my previous email made it to the list which stated what you need is a radio with transmit synchronization - and then mentioning Canopy and WiMax. I also understand that Mikrotik and others are working on synchronizing 802.11bg in some way as well. A large problem with multiple-AP sites is that AP #1 transmitting kills the sensitivity of AP#2's receiver and so you spend a lot of time and effort trying to get enough separation (polarity and/or distance). TX synchronization fixes that particular issue. Cellular does it, Canopy does it, WiMax supports it, Trango claims they are going to support it, etc. -forrest Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hmmm. Would you want to change out 60ish customers? Been there done that. Swapping out ~15 2.4Ghz 802.11b customers over the next two days to canopy. We swapped around 75 Trango customers when we first turned Canopy up. We've probably got around 100 802.11b's left on the net (30ish each on 3-4 Ap's) and they're slowly getting changed. Will canopy go 17+ miles? Yep... Trimmed to just show the relevant information: *LUID: 014* : MAC: 0a-00-3e-23-24-c0 http://172.19.74.67:1080/?mac_esn=0a003e2324c0 State: IN SESSION (Encrypt Active) Session Timeout: 0, AirDelay 2258 (approximately 20.95 miles (110642 feet)) Session Count: 2, Reg Count 1, Re-Reg Count 1 RSSI (Avg/Last): 810/817 Jitter (Avg/Last): 4/4 Power Level (Avg/Last): -76/-76 *LUID: 058* : MAC: 0a-00-3e-23-02-aa http://172.19.74.67:1080/?mac_esn=0a003e2302aa State: IN SESSION (Encrypt Active) Session Timeout: 0, AirDelay 2532 (approximately 23.50 miles (124068 feet)) Session Count: 3, Reg Count 2, Re-Reg Count 2 RSSI (Avg/Last): 903/905 Jitter (Avg/Last): 3/4 Power Level (Avg/Last): -69/-69 *LUID: 064* : MAC: 0a-00-3e-20-c4-07 http://172.19.74.67:1080/?mac_esn=0a003e20c407 State: IN SESSION (Encrypt Active) Session Timeout: 0, AirDelay 2552 (approximately 23.68 miles (125048 feet)) Session Count: 4, Reg Count 3, Re-Reg Count 1 RSSI (Avg/Last): 814/805 Jitter (Avg/Last): 4/3 Power Level (Avg/Last): -76/-76 Uptime on this particular AP is 24 days... to interpret the Session counts accordingly. I suspect the session counts shown are customer power-related issues during that period (lightning season) and not necessarily RF related. (RF problems generally cause a lot of Re-Regs). Will canopy NOT interfere with all of the other systems in the area? No more than any other loaded system will interfere. We have had 802.11b and 2.4 Canopy AP's on the same tower for weeks at a time during swap periods with very few problems - no more than you'd expect from having two collocated AP's. Most of the complaints people have with the Canopy stuff interfering with them is more related to poor RF engineering on the interferred with system (links running right at the edge, and the added ambient noise of another operator knocks them off the air). Properly engineered systems will generally survive a canopy deployment in the area. That said, Canopy will generally be the last man standing as noise goes up, which makes them look bad since the assumption is that since the Canopy system isn't being interfered with that it must be the cause. I used to believe that canopy was bad and evil but then finally had enough of trying to make 802.11b (and trango) work and then switched to Canopy. I'm not looking back. What I need to find are wifi radios that have good rx and tx properties. I also need to find some better hpol sectors. I'm not sure if my previous email made it to the list which stated what you need is a radio with transmit synchronization - and then mentioning Canopy and WiMax. I also understand that Mikrotik and others are working on synchronizing 802.11bg in some way as well. A large problem with multiple-AP sites is that AP #1 transmitting kills the sensitivity of AP#2's receiver and so you spend a lot of time and effort trying to get enough separation (polarity and/or distance). TX synchronization fixes that particular issue. Cellular does it, Canopy does it, WiMax supports it, Trango claims they are going to support it, etc. -forrest Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
I am by no means a RF guy, I am still figuring out that side of being a wisp myself. The one question I have is; could the interference be through the LMR? Ryan On Jul 25, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I thought about that. But then it's too hard to change channels. There are other operators in the area and I need the ability to change things around as needed. marlon - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Look into some high Q cavity filters. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
lol Yeah, that too! marlon - Original Message - From: Forrest W Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Marlon K. Schafer wrote: What I need are better radios. Something with better oob tx and rx stats. What you need is something with transmit synchronization (Canopy, Wimax) so that one AP isn't TX-ing at the same time that another is RX-ing. -forrest Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
I just realized I phrased that poorly, could the interference be radiating from the LMR rather than across the radios or antennas? On Jul 25, 2007, at 10:59 PM, Ryan Langseth wrote: I am by no means a RF guy, I am still figuring out that side of being a wisp myself. The one question I have is; could the interference be through the LMR? Ryan On Jul 25, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I thought about that. But then it's too hard to change channels. There are other operators in the area and I need the ability to change things around as needed. marlon - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Look into some high Q cavity filters. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/ dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon --- - Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
two different netgear switches. Using my laptop at the tower things always work as expected. Just when the customers are further away (lower signal levels) causes the problems. I've moved things further apart and the system is running better than it ever has. But it should still be better.. What I need are better radios. Something with better oob tx and rx stats. marlon - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Marlon, How are these APs hooked to each other? If you are using a hub, get a switch. If it is a switch, get a different switch. I have had this happen on 3 of my repeater sites. ryan On Jul 24, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon -- -- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
I suppose it could be. But coax, especially the good stuff, doesn't leak much as I understand it. If it did, we'd have to use something else :-) marlon - Original Message - From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference I am by no means a RF guy, I am still figuring out that side of being a wisp myself. The one question I have is; could the interference be through the LMR? Ryan On Jul 25, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I thought about that. But then it's too hard to change channels. There are other operators in the area and I need the ability to change things around as needed. marlon - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Look into some high Q cavity filters. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: What I need are better radios. Something with better oob tx and rx stats. What you need is something with transmit synchronization (Canopy, Wimax) so that one AP isn't TX-ing at the same time that another is RX-ing. -forrest Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
I thought about that. But then it's too hard to change channels. There are other operators in the area and I need the ability to change things around as needed. marlon - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference Look into some high Q cavity filters. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking
[WISPA] self inflicted interference
Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] self inflicted interference
Look into some high Q cavity filters. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I just completely rebuilt a tower site. It had inconsistent speeds and I'd hit the point that I normally change things around. When I hit 50 people to a tower I'll sectorize it. On this tower I had an omni at about 25' (the hill is 700 feet over the valley) and a 15dB integrated Tranzeo ap at about 15'. Omni was vertical, sector was horizontal. I rented a manlift and put an hpol maxrad wisp series 120* adjustable beam sector at about 45', a vertical at 37ish and another horizontal at about 30. All antennas are also 6 to 8' horizontally separated. Each on a standoff attached to the different legs of the tower. All antennas are fed with lmr600 and the radios are right beside each other at the base of the tower (I'm too chicken to climb so the radios stay where I can get to them). Here's my problem, with all of the radios on and transmitting the speeds are worse than before for most customers. The sector to the west has 2 customers and sits at the 30' level and is hpol. Those two customers get around 4 megs down and up. The sector to the north east is vertical and a customer at 10ish miles gets .7 to 1.5 megs down and .25 to .5 up. The sector to the south east is hpol and sits at the 45 or 50' level. Customers get .6 to 1.5 down and .1 to .5 up. Unplug any two radios and speeds hit the 2 to 3 meg, sometimes 4 meg speed for all customers on that system. Plug the other one back in and speeds drop back down. The hpol maxrad antennas have a 30dB fb ratio. I've not yet looked at the patterns lately, as I recall they are pretty good though. APs are Teletronics 11-152s with metal cases. I've had GREAT luck with ALL of these components at other sites. Just never all at the same time and place like this. As most of you know, most of my coverage areas are VERY low density so I tend to use a lot of omni antennas, or am mounted on hills that have no coverage behind them so only one or two sectors are used. The two systems that interfere with each other the most are north east and south east. One's hpol one's vpol. They are on channel 1 and 9. To get things working MUCH better than they were before, I've replaced the north east and south east radios with Tranzeo ap's. I also moved the southeast antenna (actually put up a new one) back down to the roof of the shack. It's also a Tranzeo ap now. It, however, now sits in front of, though much lower than the west antenna, both are hpol though. If the channels are anywhere near the same for west and southeast the folks to the west get really slow speeds. I also moved the antennas on the tower further apart, they are now at least 5 or 6 feet apart from each other. I don't know how much that helped as I changed one of the radios to a Tranzeo at that same time. This helped but didn't fix the speed and consistency problem. That's when I moved the south east system back down where I could more easily get to it. Things still aren't as consistent as they need to be. If one system gets busy the others slow down. Any ideas? My first thought is to try a REALLY high end access point or two. You'd think those systems could sit side beside when using channels so far apart from each other. It's like the new radios are soo sensitive that they will pick up the noise close to them no matter what. OR, more likely, that the new, cheaper, gear has really really sensitive radios but with rotten side band isolation on both tx and rx. Any ideas? Radios/antennas to try? Changing the radios is easy. Getting a manlift back out to change the antennas will suck big time (due to the stand offs it would be too hard/dangerous to change antennas from the tower). thanks, marlon Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
