Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Very well written Joe. As a company that’s NEVER given all you can eat for one low price I agree with you. Those who cause costs to go up should pay for those costs. Not taxpayer subsidies, not everyone paying higher costs than they should. Treat data like gas, tires, water, food, clothes etc. etc. etc. Pay for what you use, not what your neighbor uses. marlon From: Joe Fiero Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:15 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain part of this. We are going to have to emulate the cellular industry with frequency reuse like we never imagined. We are going to have to replace our older radios with ones that can deliver the required bandwidth, and our backhauls are going to need enough capacity to handle all this. But how do we justify the cost, who do we charge, and how do we do it? The early agreement with Verizon and Netflix that received the FCC’s blessing was never going to benefit everyone. How long would it take for you and I to get Netflix to pay for our “fast lane”? My guess was never. Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. I have learned
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Or the beginning of new law suits On Jul 31, 2014 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Or the beginning of new business opportunities for smaller companies. On 7/31/14, 11:07 AM, Clay Stewart wrote: Or the beginning of new law suits On Jul 31, 2014 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Oh it's great for business. Terrible for free speech. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: Or the beginning of new business opportunities for smaller companies. On 7/31/14, 11:07 AM, Clay Stewart wrote: Or the beginning of new law suits On Jul 31, 2014 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain part of this. We are going to have to emulate the cellular industry with frequency reuse like we never imagined. We are going to have to replace our older radios with ones that can deliver the required bandwidth, and our backhauls are going to need enough capacity to handle all this. But how do we justify the cost, who do we charge, and how do we do it? The early agreement with Verizon and Netflix that received the FCC’s blessing was never going to benefit everyone. How long would it take for you and I to get Netflix to pay for our “fast lane”? My guess was never. Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. I have learned the hard way that no matter what is done to increase bandwidth, the increase is negated in short order, often weeks if not days, by savvy users that realize they can pull another stream and waste no time setting it up. The simple answer is, let the market decide. If you want Netflix, each stream will cost you a monthly fee. Likewise for other streaming services. This way the user pays, not everyone. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
I don’t see it as a beginning to an end, it’s an enhanced option for a low cost data plan. Ala Carte if you will, the consumer may just do a bulk of their data use on something like Facebook and minimally for other uses. Why pay for a whopping big data plan when you may not need it. Get a decent base price program and then bump up where you want it. This may work well for audio in the car. Should be cheaper than Satellite radio. Don’t vilify something like this, if it becomes more commonplace carriers on any type of network may be able to increase their ARPU for low data use customers by changing their billing model. You don’t go to a fast food restaurant and pay one price for access to the menu by weight knowing you cannot eat all that weight, you just buy what you need. The video content companies need to go to this eventually to stem the massive erosion of the cable video subscribers, but they are going to milk that cash cow as long as they can. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburner http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook utm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
That's a great marketing idea, but I bet some douche is going to ruin it... - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:38:42 AM Subject: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
It has nothing to do with free speech. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:29:06 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end Oh it's great for business. Terrible for free speech. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: Or the beginning of new business opportunities for smaller companies. On 7/31/14, 11:07 AM, Clay Stewart wrote: Or the beginning of new law suits On Jul 31, 2014 10:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto: j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: http://www.droid-life.com/2014/07/30/12-a-month-for-facebook-sprint-tramples-over-net-neutrality-with-new-prepaid-plan/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+DroidLife+%28Droid+Life%29utm_content=FaceBook Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 tel: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 tel: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org mailto: Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
You don't need NetFlix to pay you for a fast lane... just meet them in their dozen or so facilities and get it for free instead of paying for it. Other than that, I agree with you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain part of this. We are going to have to emulate the cellular industry with frequency reuse like we never imagined. We are going to have to replace our older radios with ones that can deliver the required bandwidth, and our backhauls are going to need enough capacity to handle all this. But how do we justify the cost, who do we charge, and how do we do it? The early agreement with Verizon and Netflix that received the FCC’s blessing was never going to benefit everyone. How long would it take for you and I to get Netflix to pay for our “fast lane”? My guess was never. Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. I have learned the hard way that no matter what is done to increase bandwidth, the increase is negated in short
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
I don’t believe that to be most everyone’s gripe. Internet and transport are cheap in comparison to backhaul and the labor required to implement. We have around 250 links, if you take Netflix out of the equation, you are not chasing your tail upgrading them all the time. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end You don't need NetFlix to pay you for a fast lane... just meet them in their dozen or so facilities and get it for free instead of paying for it. Other than that, I agree with you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions https://twitter.com/ICSIL _ From: Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.net mailto:joe1...@optonline.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain part of this. We are going to have to emulate the cellular industry with frequency reuse like we never imagined. We are going to have to replace our older radios with ones that can deliver
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Do you get the connection to that facility for free? This is just like every time the bandwidth cost discussion comes up. The prices that people post that they’re paying in carrier hotels never include the cost of the connection they’re using to get there, much less the cross connect and rack fees. Just saying…… From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end You don't need NetFlix to pay you for a fast lane... just meet them in their dozen or so facilities and get it for free instead of paying for it. Other than that, I agree with you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]https://twitter.com/ICSIL From: Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.netmailto:joe1...@optonline.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Drop transport at more places in your network is good for resiliency and performance. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Greg Osborn gregwosb...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:40:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t believe that to be most everyone’s gripe. Internet and transport are cheap in comparison to backhaul and the labor required to implement. We have around 250 links, if you take Netflix out of the equation, you are not chasing your tail upgrading them all the time. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end You don't need NetFlix to pay you for a fast lane... just meet them in their dozen or so facilities and get it for free instead of paying for it. Other than that, I agree with you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain part of this. We are going to have to emulate the cellular
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Transport is generally less expensive than transit from the same provider. Not free, but certainly less expensive. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: James Howard ja...@litewire.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:45:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end Do you get the connection to that facility for free? This is just like every time the bandwidth cost discussion comes up. The prices that people post that they’re paying in carrier hotels never include the cost of the connection they’re using to get there, much less the cross connect and rack fees. Just saying…… From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:31 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end You don't need NetFlix to pay you for a fast lane... just meet them in their dozen or so facilities and get it for free instead of paying for it. Other than that, I agree with you. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 12:15:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Joe, I may or may not totally agree with you... but damn I hope you post a little more often. Thanks for the insight from your experience. I agree the market place is where this issue will be resolved, not us, not the government. If the top 2 streaming companies end up with 90% of the business in a couple years, going down Sprint's type of marketing path, history says costs to consumer will increase and a backlash will occur. Perhaps that backlash will happen earlier in the form of unfair lawsuits directed towards providers by some of the other free enterprise streaming companies losing their base. I cannot see as an example, Apple sitting back as Verizon, Sprint, Comcast and others favor delivering only Netflix and Sony TV or what have you... something will have to give in the free market place. Or maybe Apple TV or others lose customer base due to simply the added costs favors one over another by price or marketing policy. Will be another interesting time in the evolution of the Internet. On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.net wrote: I don’t comment all that often here, but very much pay attention to the voices of experience. On Net Neutrality, I have plenty to say. As with most of my FCC comments, what I filed 2 weeks ago with them went against the grain. I am a purist who has been in telecom since I repaired my first CB radio for a neighbor at the age of 14. I helped launch Metromedia’s cellular system in NY, a company I was a part owner in was the first acquisition of Fleetcall in NY City. Anyone as old as me would remember that Fleetcall became NexTel, and for the real youngsters, they were acquired by Sprint for what turned out to be a total write-off of $35 billion in December of 2004. I have been using unlicensed radio to link communications sites since long before it went digital. One thing my experience and observations have taught me is that nothing promotes innovation like free market. We need not look beyond our own industry to prove that. When no one would service 40% of America, we collectively built an industry that matured into a recognized and respected market sector. I was involved in the previous formation of an industry that is both parallel and intertwined with WISPS, that of home satellite television. Back in the mid 1970’s a band of tenacious, adventurous experimenters took handfuls of surplus junk and built home earth stations. In short order we went from being pirates and thieves to an established medium to reach rural America. It wasn’t long before the big money found us and pushed us out of the way. We went from a place where we could make a respectable income to being lackeys for DirecTV and DISH who generously paid us a few dollars to do the job and then gave us a big residual of 50 cents to about two dollars, on subscribers that ARPU of $100 or more. WISPs have been struggling to keep up with the Netflix demand since they went to Internet delivery in 2009. Systems big and small quickly found their choke points. And like in highway design, if you upgrade one intersection, the traffic jam just moves to the next unimproved intersection. The problem is, unlike the highway department, we don’t run on tax revenue. We have to charge subscribers for a service that is both fair and responsive to their needs. The SPRINT concept in the article is the most fair and responsible way to assure that our infrastructure can meet the demand, and that those creating the demand are the ones paying for it. The FCC needs to stop cow-towing to the illiterate public who are still touting that they need to “protect the FREE Internet”. Who gets this for free? If you are in a coffee shop, the proprietor is paying for it. Public Wi-Fi is advertising or tax subsidized. Do we get power, water, heating for free? Ten years ago we projected a mass movement from the PSTN to VoIP. Even the industry experts never predicted a loss of 48% of copper lines in 10 years. What was built up over a century dissipated in the blink of an eye. We are again on the cusp of a shift in the paradigm that will see cable and satellite users shift to Internet based delivery on any device they desire. The same dramatic reduction witnessed in copper phone lines awaits the traditional Multichannel marketplace. And along with the big guns, we are on the front line. We will be expected to deliver copious amounts of data to subscribers as they stream HD video and music to multiple devices in their homes and offices. We, the WISP industry, need to step up our game if we are going to remain part of this. We are going to have to emulate the cellular industry with frequency reuse like we never imagined. We are going to have to replace our older radios with ones that can deliver the required bandwidth, and our backhauls are going to need enough capacity to handle all this. But how do we justify the
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
On 07/31/2014 11:15 AM, Joe Fiero wrote: Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. Hi Folks, Just a question - is this the general consensus among list members? I ask because in a recent similar thread on the NANOG list there was a WISP owner presenting the same argument. I'm curious whether this is the viewpoint held by many WISPs. Thanks, Tim Densmore ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
I don't, no. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tim Densmore tdensm...@tarpit.cybermesa.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:31:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end On 07/31/2014 11:15 AM, Joe Fiero wrote: Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. Hi Folks, Just a question - is this the general consensus among list members? I ask because in a recent similar thread on the NANOG list there was a WISP owner presenting the same argument. I'm curious whether this is the viewpoint held by many WISPs. Thanks, Tim Densmore ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Not this WISP... -Mike On Thursday, July 31, 2014, Tim Densmore tdensm...@tarpit.cybermesa.com wrote: On 07/31/2014 11:15 AM, Joe Fiero wrote: Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. Hi Folks, Just a question - is this the general consensus among list members? I ask because in a recent similar thread on the NANOG list there was a WISP owner presenting the same argument. I'm curious whether this is the viewpoint held by many WISPs. Thanks, Tim Densmore -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
And that was an extremely painful thread on NANOG, BTW On Thursday, July 31, 2014, Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com wrote: Not this WISP... -Mike On Thursday, July 31, 2014, Tim Densmore tdensm...@tarpit.cybermesa.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tdensm...@tarpit.cybermesa.com'); wrote: On 07/31/2014 11:15 AM, Joe Fiero wrote: Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. Hi Folks, Just a question - is this the general consensus among list members? I ask because in a recent similar thread on the NANOG list there was a WISP owner presenting the same argument. I'm curious whether this is the viewpoint held by many WISPs. Thanks, Tim Densmore -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mike.l...@gmail.com'); http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Net neutrality, The beginning of the end
Absolutely - I didn't mean to rekindle it here. I'm just surprised when I see that kind of viewpoint, and I'm I'm trying to understand it a little better, hopefully with a lot less saber rattling than in that thread. I currently agree with most of the posters in the NANOG thread, but I've been wrong before. Many, many times. Tim On 07/31/2014 08:42 PM, Mike Lyon wrote: And that was an extremely painful thread on NANOG, BTW On Thursday, July 31, 2014, Mike Lyon mike.l...@gmail.com wrote: Not this WISP... -Mike On Thursday, July 31, 2014, Tim Densmore tdensm...@tarpit.cybermesa.com wrote: On 07/31/2014 11:15 AM, Joe Fiero wrote: Netflix, Hulu, and the like have created a business model where they have no cost to deliver a product to their users. They are using the infrastructure built and paid for by others, then stirring up the ignorant masses to complain to the FCC about the free Internet. Hi Folks, Just a question - is this the general consensus among list members? I ask because in a recent similar thread on the NANOG list there was a WISP owner presenting the same argument. I'm curious whether this is the viewpoint held by many WISPs. Thanks, Tim Densmore -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon -- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.l...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
