Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
The cheapest thing you can do, in my opinion, is this: Put your equipment in a good metal box, if fans make them RF screened fans, and ground it good. Then make your cables with level 2 tough cable from ubiquiti (or whatever their double shielded cable is called), using their shielded ends and make sure the connectors are put on according to their plan. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I was. I've only ever bought one box of the tough cable and only used it once for about two runs of cable on a large tower. wasn't thinking the quality would be that great because they are not known for top of the line quality, just bargain priced stuff. A new 100,000 watt fm antenna was activated 5 feet behind our equipment (yes, radiating towards us on a platform away from the tower, we were not behind it) and the only two radios that did not go down were the two we used the tough cable on. That said everything I needed to know. Shireen, Belden etc didn't make the cut. It does turn green after a while which is kinda odd, and I can't say how it will last but it is shielded better no doubt. Scott Carullo Technical Operations 855-FLSPEED x102 From: Tim Warnock tim...@timoid.org Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:54 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Hi All, I have a question as to how other operators are handling POE radio links and high power FM transmitters. We often see things like a radio will run errors or drop to 10mbps instead of 100mbps until we find a good position on the tower that its happy with. Once its happy we never have an issue again. We've tried earthing, not earthing, STP, UTP. Nothing seems to definitively solve the issue. Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? It would be muchly appreciated. Thanks Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
+1 on ferrits. On Feb 28, 2012, at 22:23, Joe Fiero joe1...@optonline.net wrote: Tim, I have had 100% success by using a good quality shielded cable and following a strict bonding regiment. Bonding the antenna, radio, mast and cable to the tower at the top is imperative, as is the same process at the bottom. It's also important that the tower be bonded and that the bond is common with that in the equipment room. Make sure the inside end of the cable is bonded as well. In other words, there should be no difference in potential between the ground in the equipment room, the tower or your equipment on the tower. You must carry that bonding through to the rack and equipment you place in the room as well. Also, be sure to use grounded cable on jumpers. And the real trick is putting ferrite beads on both ends of the POE cable. I had a site exhibiting between 50 and 70 percent packet loss between the topside radio and the router in the room when initially installed. The installer never noticed there were two FM stations on the tower ( 55Kw and 30Kw ). We even swapped radio equipment twice because he insisted there were no transmitters in close proximity. Once we discovered the FM stations he did as I described above and we went immediately to 0% packet loss from the router. Joe -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Warnock Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Hi All, I have a question as to how other operators are handling POE radio links and high power FM transmitters. We often see things like a radio will run errors or drop to 10mbps instead of 100mbps until we find a good position on the tower that its happy with. Once its happy we never have an issue again. We've tried earthing, not earthing, STP, UTP. Nothing seems to definitively solve the issue. Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? It would be muchly appreciated. Thanks Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
This problem is a bitch. We're on a station that's only 20k watts and Ethernet issues are severe. We finally had pretty good luck by moving the radios down and running high grade coax to the antennas. We also run metal shielded cat5 with the proper ends. Finally I installed ferrite beads on both ends of all cat 5 runs. Things are running pretty well now. Turns out that cat5 and fm radio are basically in the same frequency area. My best advice? Go find a different tower to use :-). But it can be done. All electronics in a metal enclosure also. Jumper cat5 also needs to be shielded cable with grounded connectors. Sometimes I put ferrite beads on them as well. marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Warnock tim...@timoid.org To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Hi All, I have a question as to how other operators are handling POE radio links and high power FM transmitters. We often see things like a radio will run errors or drop to 10mbps instead of 100mbps until we find a good position on the tower that its happy with. Once its happy we never have an issue again. We've tried earthing, not earthing, STP, UTP. Nothing seems to definitively solve the issue. Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? It would be muchly appreciated. Thanks Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
The biggest thing I stress with any FM tower is to get an experienced FM tower climber crew to give your their opinion on the tower before installing any equipment on it. Too many times I have seen an FM tower with poor grounds, missing grounds, improperly installed hardline, etc. Many times I have found it to be the tower more than your equipment. Some of my guys were on a small FM station with a 2k transmitter. The tower had 1 small ground, and was missing the bonding to the tower. The tower is named sparky due to the RF charging the whole tower. No amount of work on the cat-5 could have ever fixed this. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
We are on a toewer near an AM tower I named Sparky because of the RF burns I got terminating the cat5. -- Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless 1 (570) 723-7312 Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote: The biggest thing I stress with any FM tower is to get an experienced FM tower climber crew to give your their opinion on the tower before installing any equipment on it. Too many times I have seen an FM tower with poor grounds, missing grounds, improperly installed hardline, etc. Many times I have found it to be the tower more than your equipment. Some of my guys were on a small FM station with a 2k transmitter. The tower had 1 small ground, and was missing the bonding to the tower. The tower is named sparky due to the RF charging the whole tower. No amount of work on the cat-5 could have ever fixed this. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Might anyone have a recommendation for a cheap supplier of ferrite beads large enough to fit thick STP, e.g. like Ubiquiti tough cable? -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Something I've heard talked about in ham/engineering circles is don't have cable runs that are near a half wavelength or multiple half wavelengths of the frequency that's giving you trouble. It's a last ditch effort but it might be worth thinking about. Ferrites are great. When you put them along the cable again avoid half wave length intervals. You want to do everything to discourage the cable from resonating at the interfering frequency. Greg On Feb 29, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181) wrote: This problem is a bitch. We're on a station that's only 20k watts and Ethernet issues are severe. We finally had pretty good luck by moving the radios down and running high grade coax to the antennas. We also run metal shielded cat5 with the proper ends. Finally I installed ferrite beads on both ends of all cat 5 runs. Things are running pretty well now. Turns out that cat5 and fm radio are basically in the same frequency area. My best advice? Go find a different tower to use :-). But it can be done. All electronics in a metal enclosure also. Jumper cat5 also needs to be shielded cable with grounded connectors. Sometimes I put ferrite beads on them as well. marlon - Original Message - From: Tim Warnock tim...@timoid.org To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:15 PM Subject: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Hi All, I have a question as to how other operators are handling POE radio links and high power FM transmitters. We often see things like a radio will run errors or drop to 10mbps instead of 100mbps until we find a good position on the tower that its happy with. Once its happy we never have an issue again. We've tried earthing, not earthing, STP, UTP. Nothing seems to definitively solve the issue. Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? It would be muchly appreciated. Thanks Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
I know this fits Mohawk direct burial cable but it didn't solve my ethernet problems on an FM tower. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fair-Rite/0431164181/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukHu%252bjC5l7Yer6NHO3r2EH2hq2kvibEAY%3D Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Ben West b...@gowasabi.net wrote: Might anyone have a recommendation for a cheap supplier of ferrite beads large enough to fit thick STP, e.g. like Ubiquiti tough cable? -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
At 2/29/2012 02:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: We are on a toewer near an AM tower I named Sparky because of the RF burns I got terminating the cat5. -- An AM tower is supposed to be hot, since the tower is the antenna. An FM or TV tower is supposed to be a grounded support structure for the actual antenna. I'd never put stuff on an AM tower. Nor would most such towers want stuff on them, since it could throw their performance off. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
www.mouser.comhttp://www.mouser.com and search for EMI clamp. They have a lot of options available. Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.netmailto:lwei...@excel.net) Excel.Net, Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ben West Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Might anyone have a recommendation for a cheap supplier of ferrite beads large enough to fit thick STP, e.g. like Ubiquiti tough cable? -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.netmailto:b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Monoprice has them, don't know exactly how cheap compared to others they are though: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102 http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102cp_id=10240cs _id=1024011 cp_id=10240cs_id=1024011 Sincerely, Eric Tykwinski TrueNet, Inc. P: 610-429-8300 F: 610-429-3222 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ben West Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Might anyone have a recommendation for a cheap supplier of ferrite beads large enough to fit thick STP, e.g. like Ubiquiti tough cable? -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Yes.. I'd never mount to an AM tower but we were next to one on an FM tower. Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 2/29/12 2:58 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 2/29/2012 02:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: We are on a toewer near an AM tower I named Sparky because of the RF burns I got terminating the cat5. -- An AM tower is supposed to be hot, since the tower is the antenna. An FM or TV tower is supposed to be a grounded support structure for the actual antenna. I'd never put stuff on an AM tower. Nor would most such towers want stuff on them, since it could throw their performance off. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Dexter Magnetics 847-956-1140 0431164181 Those are big enough to wrap the cat5 through 3 times. marlon - Original Message - From: Ben West To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Might anyone have a recommendation for a cheap supplier of ferrite beads large enough to fit thick STP, e.g. like Ubiquiti tough cable? -- Ben West http://gowasabi.net b...@gowasabi.net -- ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Far as I know it requires fiber and DC power to be reliable. Haven't seen any other solutions with many +1s Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 28, 2012 9:54 PM, Tim Warnock tim...@timoid.org wrote: Hi All, I have a question as to how other operators are handling POE radio links and high power FM transmitters. We often see things like a radio will run errors or drop to 10mbps instead of 100mbps until we find a good position on the tower that its happy with. Once its happy we never have an issue again. We've tried earthing, not earthing, STP, UTP. Nothing seems to definitively solve the issue. Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? It would be muchly appreciated. Thanks Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters
Tim, I have had 100% success by using a good quality shielded cable and following a strict bonding regiment. Bonding the antenna, radio, mast and cable to the tower at the top is imperative, as is the same process at the bottom. It's also important that the tower be bonded and that the bond is common with that in the equipment room. Make sure the inside end of the cable is bonded as well. In other words, there should be no difference in potential between the ground in the equipment room, the tower or your equipment on the tower. You must carry that bonding through to the rack and equipment you place in the room as well. Also, be sure to use grounded cable on jumpers. And the real trick is putting ferrite beads on both ends of the POE cable. I had a site exhibiting between 50 and 70 percent packet loss between the topside radio and the router in the room when initially installed. The installer never noticed there were two FM stations on the tower ( 55Kw and 30Kw ). We even swapped radio equipment twice because he insisted there were no transmitters in close proximity. Once we discovered the FM stations he did as I described above and we went immediately to 0% packet loss from the router. Joe -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Warnock Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] ethernet and towers with FM transmitters Hi All, I have a question as to how other operators are handling POE radio links and high power FM transmitters. We often see things like a radio will run errors or drop to 10mbps instead of 100mbps until we find a good position on the tower that its happy with. Once its happy we never have an issue again. We've tried earthing, not earthing, STP, UTP. Nothing seems to definitively solve the issue. Does anyone have any advice they'd like to share? It would be muchly appreciated. Thanks Tim ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
