Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Back to reality, now you really know what the stimulus money is for, back door debt paying. -- Original Message -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 01:20:49 -0500 Funny but sadly true. And no amount of stimulus can fix that. On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Chadd Thompson chad...@msn.com wrote: Bingo! -- *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert West *Sent:* Friday, December 24, 2010 9:55 PM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works Actually, the reality is, all the cash gets spent at Wal-Mart and ends up in China. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *RickG *Sent:* Friday, December 24, 2010 10:52 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works #1: The hooker doesnt get to keep the $100 because her pimp took 90% of it. #2: The pimp ends up blowing it on his drug habit. #3: The drug dealer spends it on the hooker, back to the pimp, now we're stuck in a endless loop! Comments: A) The motel owner had no business stealing the $100 from the rich tourist. B) Nobody benefits except the pimp and drug dealer so further down goes the neighborhood and the optimism with it. C) This is a perfect example of what is wrong with debt. D) The ends never justify the means. *If that's how stimulus works, then I want no part of it! On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
Are you considering a single low cost, high capacity pipe or numerous pipes? The availability of low cost fiber transport at many locations in a network helps with that as the high cost, low capacity wireless backhauls become less of an issue. In the wireless world to do a 6 mile 100 megabit link, it costs $600; to do a 300 megabit link, it costs $15k; to do 3 gigabit, it costs $80k. Pretty much every 6 miles your costs double. If for a few hundred a month, you can inject a couple hundred megabit (that you purchased elsewhere) anywhere in your network, your end user cost goes down. Within a couple years I'll have low(ish) cost access to fiber transport at probably a dozen points in my network. Not only does this enable lower cost per bit for broadband use, but it also means I'll have a dozen points where I can launch 50 megabit to 1 gigabit service to a customer with no worry about how to get it there. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 12/23/2010 7:01 PM, MDK wrote: You know, the thing about this, is that it would probably be GOOD, not bad. It would eventually result in people noticing that data consumption is a little like your water bill... The more you use, the more it costs. These people believe that an ISP's connection to you is unlimited... All you can consume, 24/7. And they base their premise that pricing to pay for that kind of use, is what people are paying, and that's not true. What people are paying for, is the average between the users. Eventually, I see people ASKING to not pay the ever growing bill that will be required when everyone ( not really, just a significant percentage, like 10 to 30% of users) streams the evening news, 5 hours of nightly entertainment movies, tv shows, live peer to peer entertainment and transfers, and other such bandwidth hungry services. If I could buy at a carrier hotel, for $1/Mbit, and had no transport costs, save my own network, my pricing structure STILL FAILS at about 4 - 8 times the usage that my average customer now consumes and I'm faced with raising rates. And, that customer is using between 8 and 12 times what he did just 6 years ago. IE, it's not that long when the internet bandwidth price just may not matter - no matter how cheap it becomes, and that the final mile and next to final mile costs will be what drives the price and the way of marketing services. I don't have a great deal on bandwidth, but it's not a BAD deal on bandwidth, and honestly, the bandwidth cost, though a significant component of the monthly outgo, and I expect it to fall per meg over time, is going to be less and less relevant - and the cost of delivering that final and next to final mile, along with customer service, is going to be the BIG cost. What's this mean, in 5 years? I think it means that either certain means of offering internet are either going to become a menu of services with a price attached to each, or the overall cost to the consumer is going to climb so far that people are going to demand tiered services so that they, themselves, choose consumption levels they are willing to pay for. I could be all wrong, here, but, hey... It's almost a new year, so I'm donning my prophet hat and shooting off my mouth. Let the debates commence. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Larry A Weidiglwei...@excel.net Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
I thought the hooker was the stimulus package, she costs you way more than it should, it's not ongoing pleasure, and you end up dumping even more into it before you walk away saying I could have used the money for something much greater in the scheme of things. Merry Christmas everyone, the things we talk about on Christmas eve. :) Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. On 12/24/2010 9:42 AM, Chuck Profito wrote: MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Nice! LOL. Victoria Proffer - President/CEO www.ShowMeBroadband.com www.StLouisBroadband.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Profito Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 11:43 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Nice fable :) ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 9:42 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Ho, Ho, Ho.I think they just pay a little on the bills they owe and save some for some spiked egg nog. -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:42:59 -0800 MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
#1: The hooker doesnt get to keep the $100 because her pimp took 90% of it. #2: The pimp ends up blowing it on his drug habit. #3: The drug dealer spends it on the hooker, back to the pimp, now we're stuck in a endless loop! Comments: A) The motel owner had no business stealing the $100 from the rich tourist. B) Nobody benefits except the pimp and drug dealer so further down goes the neighborhood and the optimism with it. C) This is a perfect example of what is wrong with debt. D) The ends never justify the means. *If that's how stimulus works, then I want no part of it! On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.comwrote: MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Actually, the reality is, all the cash gets spent at Wal-Mart and ends up in China. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 10:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works #1: The hooker doesnt get to keep the $100 because her pimp took 90% of it. #2: The pimp ends up blowing it on his drug habit. #3: The drug dealer spends it on the hooker, back to the pimp, now we're stuck in a endless loop! Comments: A) The motel owner had no business stealing the $100 from the rich tourist. B) Nobody benefits except the pimp and drug dealer so further down goes the neighborhood and the optimism with it. C) This is a perfect example of what is wrong with debt. D) The ends never justify the means. *If that's how stimulus works, then I want no part of it! On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Bingo! _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 9:55 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works Actually, the reality is, all the cash gets spent at Wal-Mart and ends up in China. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 10:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works #1: The hooker doesnt get to keep the $100 because her pimp took 90% of it. #2: The pimp ends up blowing it on his drug habit. #3: The drug dealer spends it on the hooker, back to the pimp, now we're stuck in a endless loop! Comments: A) The motel owner had no business stealing the $100 from the rich tourist. B) Nobody benefits except the pimp and drug dealer so further down goes the neighborhood and the optimism with it. C) This is a perfect example of what is wrong with debt. D) The ends never justify the means. *If that's how stimulus works, then I want no part of it! On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works
Funny but sadly true. And no amount of stimulus can fix that. On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Chadd Thompson chad...@msn.com wrote: Bingo! -- *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Robert West *Sent:* Friday, December 24, 2010 9:55 PM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works Actually, the reality is, all the cash gets spent at Wal-Mart and ends up in China. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *RickG *Sent:* Friday, December 24, 2010 10:52 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Wow- and how stimulus works #1: The hooker doesnt get to keep the $100 because her pimp took 90% of it. #2: The pimp ends up blowing it on his drug habit. #3: The drug dealer spends it on the hooker, back to the pimp, now we're stuck in a endless loop! Comments: A) The motel owner had no business stealing the $100 from the rich tourist. B) Nobody benefits except the pimp and drug dealer so further down goes the neighborhood and the optimism with it. C) This is a perfect example of what is wrong with debt. D) The ends never justify the means. *If that's how stimulus works, then I want no part of it! On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: MDK- just for you. :-} -Or It is a slow day in the small Minnesota town of Marshall, and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody is living on credit. A rich tourist visiting the area drives through town, stops at the motel, lays a $100 bill on the desk and says he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs before selecting one for the night. 1. As soon as he walks upstairs, the motel owner grabs the bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 2. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to retire his debt to the pig farmer. 3. The pig farmer takes the $100 and heads off to pay his bill to his supplier, the Farmer's Co-op. 4. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer her services on credit. 5. The hooker rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill with the hotel owner. 6. The hotel proprietor then places the $100 back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, picks up the $100 bill and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole town is now out of debt and looks to the future with a lot more optimism. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Stimulus works. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
As is usual with bad ideas that sound great. The first assumption is flawed. After the first flawed idea, everything else is very logical and sounds great. ISPs provide your internet access. You can use it as much as you want, for anything you want. This ignores the concept of oversubscription. We pay $450 for 5 mb and sell that same 5 mb for $40. Scott Piehn - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
The cost is in getting it to them. On Dec 23, 2010 6:51 PM, Scott Piehn li...@jcwifi.com wrote: As is usual with bad ideas that sound great. The first assumption is flawed. After the first flawed idea, everything else is very logical and sounds great. ISPs provide your internet access. You can use it as much as you want, for anything you want. This ignores the concept of oversubscription. We pay $450 for 5 mb and sell that same 5 mb for $40. Scott Piehn - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
Hard to be a capitalist AND a socialist at the same time. So, you are expected to turn a profit but at the same time give away the store. Yes? :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow As is usual with bad ideas that sound great. The first assumption is flawed. After the first flawed idea, everything else is very logical and sounds great. ISPs provide your internet access. You can use it as much as you want, for anything you want. This ignores the concept of oversubscription. We pay $450 for 5 mb and sell that same 5 mb for $40. Scott Piehn - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
You know, the thing about this, is that it would probably be GOOD, not bad. It would eventually result in people noticing that data consumption is a little like your water bill... The more you use, the more it costs. These people believe that an ISP's connection to you is unlimited... All you can consume, 24/7. And they base their premise that pricing to pay for that kind of use, is what people are paying, and that's not true. What people are paying for, is the average between the users. Eventually, I see people ASKING to not pay the ever growing bill that will be required when everyone ( not really, just a significant percentage, like 10 to 30% of users) streams the evening news, 5 hours of nightly entertainment movies, tv shows, live peer to peer entertainment and transfers, and other such bandwidth hungry services. If I could buy at a carrier hotel, for $1/Mbit, and had no transport costs, save my own network, my pricing structure STILL FAILS at about 4 - 8 times the usage that my average customer now consumes and I'm faced with raising rates. And, that customer is using between 8 and 12 times what he did just 6 years ago. IE, it's not that long when the internet bandwidth price just may not matter - no matter how cheap it becomes, and that the final mile and next to final mile costs will be what drives the price and the way of marketing services. I don't have a great deal on bandwidth, but it's not a BAD deal on bandwidth, and honestly, the bandwidth cost, though a significant component of the monthly outgo, and I expect it to fall per meg over time, is going to be less and less relevant - and the cost of delivering that final and next to final mile, along with customer service, is going to be the BIG cost. What's this mean, in 5 years? I think it means that either certain means of offering internet are either going to become a menu of services with a price attached to each, or the overall cost to the consumer is going to climb so far that people are going to demand tiered services so that they, themselves, choose consumption levels they are willing to pay for. I could be all wrong, here, but, hey... It's almost a new year, so I'm donning my prophet hat and shooting off my mouth. Let the debates commence. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 7:30 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
give away?!?!? You mean take away comrade! On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Hard to be a capitalist AND a socialist at the same time. So, you are expected to turn a profit but at the same time give away the store. Yes? :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow As is usual with bad ideas that sound great. The first assumption is flawed. After the first flawed idea, everything else is very logical and sounds great. ISPs provide your internet access. You can use it as much as you want, for anything you want. This ignores the concept of oversubscription. We pay $450 for 5 mb and sell that same 5 mb for $40. Scott Piehn - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
In Soviet Russia, Internet downloads you! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:03 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: give away?!?!? You mean take away comrade! On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Hard to be a capitalist AND a socialist at the same time. So, you are expected to turn a profit but at the same time give away the store. Yes? :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow As is usual with bad ideas that sound great. The first assumption is flawed. After the first flawed idea, everything else is very logical and sounds great. ISPs provide your internet access. You can use it as much as you want, for anything you want. This ignores the concept of oversubscription. We pay $450 for 5 mb and sell that same 5 mb for $40. Scott Piehn - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
Da. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 8:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow give away?!?!? You mean take away comrade! On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Hard to be a capitalist AND a socialist at the same time. So, you are expected to turn a profit but at the same time give away the store. Yes? :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Piehn Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 6:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wow As is usual with bad ideas that sound great. The first assumption is flawed. After the first flawed idea, everything else is very logical and sounds great. ISPs provide your internet access. You can use it as much as you want, for anything you want. This ignores the concept of oversubscription. We pay $450 for 5 mb and sell that same 5 mb for $40. Scott Piehn - Original Message - From: Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:30 AM Subject: [WISPA] Wow Just wanted to pass this along, as I think it summarizes what the general public believes is the entire issue at stake: http://www.theopeninter.net/ Yikes! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
Okay, I will bite... What you are stating / observing is not too far off from what is actually happening at the moment.. I would like to point out and additional dimension which is reality at the moment, working it's way outwards from the Major Metro Areas you, myself and our peers may not like what / where this is leading to... My comments inline. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 12/23/2010 8:01 PM, MDK wrote: You know, the thing about this, is that it would probably be GOOD, not bad. It would eventually result in people noticing that data consumption is a little like your water bill... The more you use, the more it costs. This may be true for smaller operators or Wireless Operators, but not true for the Wireline Operators (Telco Cable)... point to note.. cellular carriers value Data Very Much, and you can see they they don't sell it very cheap. These people believe that an ISP's connection to you is unlimited... All you can consume, 24/7. And they base their premise that pricing to pay for that kind of use, is what people are paying, and that's not true. This is what we as an InternetAccess Data Communication Industry have told to our customer and trained them as such... so why should one be surprised to see the consumer behaving as such ? people are paying for, is the average between the users. Eventually, I see people ASKING to not pay the ever growing bill that will be required when everyone ( not really, just a significant percentage, like 10 to 30% of users) streams the evening news, 5 hours of nightly entertainment movies, tv shows, live peer to peer entertainment and transfers, and other such bandwidth hungry services. this is where I think you are wrong, Cable Telco's are grearing up to be able to accomodate such consumer behavior. Deep Down, both the Cable Co's and Telco's are in the business of 'Last Mile Delivery Network', frankly they could not care less as to what is the content ... they are simply looking to maximize revenue on a per wire connection delivered basis. While, the Wireless ISP's and Cell Co's cannot support this model due to the last mile technology they deploy. If I could buy at a carrier hotel, for $1/Mbit, and had no transport costs, save my own network, my pricing structure STILL FAILS at about 4 - 8 times the usage that my average customer now consumes and I'm faced with raising rates. Frankly, the converse of this is also true... Maybe our services are 'under-priced' to begin with ? We, because of our cut to the bone business model of making little to no profit, choose to sell service at a price that takes a lot of factors into consideration and we may have 'mis-calculated' on the shifting consumer behavior ? And, that customer is using between 8 and 12 times what he did just 6 years ago. IE, it's not that long when the internet bandwidth price just may not matter - no matter how cheap it becomes, and that the final mile and next to final mile costs will be what drives the price and the way of marketing services. Reality Check here Telco's Cable Co's are pricing their services based on Network Cost of Last Mile Delivery.. Consideration of Content Cost is pretty much negligible (well with the exception of Cable Tv stuff).. but on IP delivery, they are pretty much taking cost of build out / delivery and amortizing it over 24 to 36 months to come up with the cost (plus some heavy marketing subsidies to gain the subscriber for the long run) I don't have a great deal on bandwidth, but it's not a BAD deal on bandwidth, and honestly, the bandwidth cost, though a significant component of the monthly outgo, and I expect it to fall per meg over time, is going to be less and less relevant - and the cost of delivering that final and next to final mile, along with customer service, is going to be the BIG cost. You are now thinking like the bigger carriers... What's this mean, in 5 years? I think it means that either certain means of offering internet are either going to become a menu of services with a price attached to each, or the overall cost to the consumer is going to climb so far that people are going to demand tiered services so that they, themselves, choose consumption levels they are willing to pay for. Keep the info I have shared above and revisit the conclusion A. Wireless Internet Service will become marginalized (niche service) as Wired Infrastructure gets built out ? (for this reason the ILEC Monopoly has to break !!, or duopoly has to increase coverage area). B. Cost of Communication Services Consumed by folks will go UP. (I say Communication Cost, not Internet Cost.. go back into time, 20 years ago I was spending about $70 on Phone service, $35 on cable Tv... Today, it is something like $35 voip/Home Phone + $50 Internet DSL + $70 Cable Tv Service + $250 Cell Phone + data Plan. Over time this will consolidate, and the Telco's and cable Co's are
Re: [WISPA] Wow
Frankly, the converse of this is also true... Maybe our services are 'under-priced' to begin with ? We, because of our cut to the bone business model of making little to no profit, choose to sell service at a price that takes a lot of factors into consideration and we may have 'mis-calculated' on the shifting consumer behavior ? I've been saying that since 1997 when I was paying $3500 per T1 and I bought my first Alott box. The problem is people cant pay for what they use and depend on the over-subscription model. B. Cost of Communication Services Consumed by folks will go UP. (I say Communication Cost, not Internet Cost.. go back into time, 20 years ago I was spending about $70 on Phone service, $35 on cable Tv... Today, it is something like $35 voip/Home Phone + $50 Internet DSL + $70 Cable Tv Service + $250 Cell Phone + data Plan. Over time this will consolidate, and the Telco's and cable Co's are fighting to keep as big as a share the can off it... Plus there are other pay for services HD / DvR / Special Programing etc etc that can kick in another $100 / month from the subscribers... Can anyone make any money providing all that for $100 or less? Unfortunately, the WISP's may not have other addons to make money from personally, when ever I do the un-adulterated business math, I keep coming up with conclusions that .. when Gross Revenue from a Subscriber hits south of $50/month, it is very difficult to turn healthy profit.. when it starts to approach $100/month, things start looking a lot more reasonable and business like. This is very much true for the Cable Co's and the Telco's as well. We do have one feature - upload bandwidth. I havent marketed it yet but with Facebook and such being so popular I hear people grumbling about upload speed on their DSL cable. -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
.. Correction / Point:- The ISP Model is built on OverSubcription.. the Telco's 'generate' internet traffic or in otherwords 'peer' so their capacity cost is dictated by equipment and infrastructure maintenance cost. The price for anything is arbitrary based on their desired profit level. @ $100/month the services START becoming profitable, as WISP's ISP's may not have much of Add-on Services to keep increasing that number, the Telco's and Cable Co's have plenty of options to raise the monthly tab. Yes we do have some features that are very much applicable for a 'niche' cannot be everything to everyone (e.g. like Cable Co's TelCo's), and I think that is going to hold the key to success for WISP's . the other option is to look and think beyond.. e.g. make some real / serious money so that you can build or pay for infrastructure that one can own.. (e.g. wires in the Ground... / CLEC presense @ colo / Fiber Routes / Cable Plant etc.etc.) Regards Happy Holidays Merry Christmas to all. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 12/23/2010 11:53 PM, RickG wrote: Frankly, the converse of this is also true... Maybe our services are 'under-priced' to begin with ? We, because of our cut to the bone business model of making little to no profit, choose to sell service at a price that takes a lot of factors into consideration and we may have 'mis-calculated' on the shifting consumer behavior ? I've been saying that since 1997 when I was paying $3500 per T1 and I bought my first Alott box. The problem is people cant pay for what they use and depend on the over-subscription model. B. Cost of Communication Services Consumed by folks will go UP. (I say Communication Cost, not Internet Cost.. go back into time, 20 years ago I was spending about $70 on Phone service, $35 on cable Tv... Today, it is something like $35 voip/Home Phone + $50 Internet DSL + $70 Cable Tv Service + $250 Cell Phone + data Plan. Over time this will consolidate, and the Telco's and cable Co's are fighting to keep as big as a share the can off it... Plus there are other pay for services HD / DvR / Special Programing etc etc that can kick in another $100 / month from the subscribers... Can anyone make any money providing all that for $100 or less? Unfortunately, the WISP's may not have other addons to make money from personally, when ever I do the un-adulterated business math, I keep coming up with conclusions that .. when Gross Revenue from a Subscriber hits south of $50/month, it is very difficult to turn healthy profit.. when it starts to approach $100/month, things start looking a lot more reasonable and business like. This is very much true for the Cable Co's and the Telco's as well. We do have one feature - upload bandwidth. I havent marketed it yet but with Facebook and such being so popular I hear people grumbling about upload speed on their DSL cable. -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wow
Another item for us to do: Peer, aggregate bandwidth and save money. As you said, thing like the big guys. On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.netwrote: .. Correction / Point:- The ISP Model is built on OverSubcription.. the Telco's 'generate' internet traffic or in otherwords 'peer' so their capacity cost is dictated by equipment and infrastructure maintenance cost. The price for anything is arbitrary based on their desired profit level. @ $100/month the services START becoming profitable, as WISP's ISP's may not have much of Add-on Services to keep increasing that number, the Telco's and Cable Co's have plenty of options to raise the monthly tab. Yes we do have some features that are very much applicable for a 'niche' cannot be everything to everyone (e.g. like Cable Co's TelCo's), and I think that is going to hold the key to success for WISP's . the other option is to look and think beyond.. e.g. make some real / serious money so that you can build or pay for infrastructure that one can own.. (e.g. wires in the Ground... / CLEC presense @ colo / Fiber Routes / Cable Plant etc.etc.) Regards Happy Holidays Merry Christmas to all. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 12/23/2010 11:53 PM, RickG wrote: Frankly, the converse of this is also true... Maybe our services are 'under-priced' to begin with ? We, because of our cut to the bone business model of making little to no profit, choose to sell service at a price that takes a lot of factors into consideration and we may have 'mis-calculated' on the shifting consumer behavior ? I've been saying that since 1997 when I was paying $3500 per T1 and I bought my first Alott box. The problem is people cant pay for what they use and depend on the over-subscription model. B. Cost of Communication Services Consumed by folks will go UP. (I say Communication Cost, not Internet Cost.. go back into time, 20 years ago I was spending about $70 on Phone service, $35 on cable Tv... Today, it is something like $35 voip/Home Phone + $50 Internet DSL + $70 Cable Tv Service + $250 Cell Phone + data Plan. Over time this will consolidate, and the Telco's and cable Co's are fighting to keep as big as a share the can off it... Plus there are other pay for services HD / DvR / Special Programing etc etc that can kick in another $100 / month from the subscribers... Can anyone make any money providing all that for $100 or less? Unfortunately, the WISP's may not have other addons to make money from personally, when ever I do the un-adulterated business math, I keep coming up with conclusions that .. when Gross Revenue from a Subscriber hits south of $50/month, it is very difficult to turn healthy profit.. when it starts to approach $100/month, things start looking a lot more reasonable and business like. This is very much true for the Cable Co's and the Telco's as well. We do have one feature - upload bandwidth. I havent marketed it yet but with Facebook and such being so popular I hear people grumbling about upload speed on their DSL cable. -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow
This will work. The user is using a rotopol to convert a canopy to horizontal polarization. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: [WISPA] wow And here is what happens when someone doesn't follow the rules... Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow
Does it also add gain or just change polarity? Travis Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: This will work. The user is using a rotopol to convert a canopy to horizontal polarization. - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: [WISPA] wow And here is what happens when someone doesn't follow the rules... Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow
Just changes polarity. Allows H pol on reflectors. We have only tested it on our own reflectors but I can't think why it wouldn't work on others as pictured. It does move the phase center about a half an inch. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] wow Does it also add gain or just change polarity? Travis Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: This will work. The user is using a rotopol to convert a canopy to horizontal polarization. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: [WISPA] wow And here is what happens when someone doesn't follow the rules... Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow
I have an 18 mile BH link with two motorola reflectors. I added rotopols to this link and after realignment lost only 1 db. It is possible that further alignment work could remove this loss of db. They work great. Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: Just changes polarity. Allows H pol on reflectors. We have only tested it on our own reflectors but I can't think why it wouldn't work on others as pictured. It does move the phase center about a half an inch. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] wow Does it also add gain or just change polarity? Travis Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: This will work. The user is using a rotopol to convert a canopy to horizontal polarization. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:53 PM Subject: [WISPA] wow And here is what happens when someone doesn't follow the rules... Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing
Marlon, it's about business, Moto saw money to be made, as they have done with their canopy systems. How much for a razor ph. and how much for a canopy cpe?? You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't agree with all of it. But the main issues are in agreement with what most wisps will want. Pushing for unlicensed vs. licensed is a big leap in our direction for Moto. laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing
Actually, a razor phone cost more or less the same as a Canopy CPE Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carl A jeptha Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 8:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing Marlon, it's about business, Moto saw money to be made, as they have done with their canopy systems. How much for a razor ph. and how much for a canopy cpe?? You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I don't agree with all of it. But the main issues are in agreement with what most wisps will want. Pushing for unlicensed vs. licensed is a big leap in our direction for Moto. laters, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing
link for all filings on NPRM 04-186: *http://tinyurl.com/yswcon* link for Motorola's summary response to the filings: * http://tinyurl.com/2fwhtp *Motorola is a large company with many divisions and many interests - some of which certainly conflict. Of course, these filings are never filed under Motorola - Canopy Division, so someone - probably the authors listed below - has to decide where Motorola should stand. Perhaps WISPA could meet with the authors of Motorola's filing to find common ground and better understand where they're going: Steve B. Sharkey Director, Spectrum and Standards Strategy Robert D. Kubik Director, Telecom Relations Global Motorola, Inc. 1455 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Suite 900 Washington, DC 20004 TEL: 202.371.6953 Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
