RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost
I second that emotion. Pete Morrissey From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Coehoorn Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 10:30 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost Agree I wouldn't run new port-per-pillow drops, but I wouldn't ditch existing drops (just update the switching) and anywhere you have apartment-style living I would put a wired port in the common space for game consoles/blu-ray/smart tvs/etc. Those who actually use the ports will be the few who know enough to know why it's better, and they also tend to be your heaviest users. It's nice to get some of the gaming and netflix traffic out of your airspace. On Mar 15, 2011 7:50pm, John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: Thanks, but I have purchased already. We will be doing this backwards. We are pulling extra drops and leaving 20' coils of cable above the ceilings and then throw up the APs and see what happens. Not perfect but we have been doing alright with that. We have a feel for it and the students report happiness. This summer we will do the survey to tighten things up a bit. I am considering dropping the wired ports as our LAN is past due for a refresh and I do not want to re-invest in the port-per-pillow model. John On 3/15/2011 7:09 PM, Brian Helman wrote: Have you already selected a wireless product? If not, I think you'd be far better served issuing an RFP for full procurement and installation, with signal guarantees (I'd recommend -68dBm). If you have holes, the contract should be on the hook for it. Take advantage of this economy. Vendors will jump on this. Remember, antennas vary GREATLY. If you do a survey and then bid out and end up with a different product than you conducted the survey with, you could end up with holes. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of heath.barnhart [heath.barnh...@washburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:57 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost If you have any resellers/technology partners/consultants you might ask them. Standard consultant fees would probably apply (I've seen $150-$300/hour). If they're good they should be able to survey a couple buildings in a day (which should be less than $1500 a floor). You could also do it yourself. Someone mentioned Ekahau; we use Airmagnet Survey. Its good too have a survey solution for troubleshooting anyways. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 On 3/14/2011 4:46 PM, Winston Chow wrote: Usually companies don't like to do site surveys because they do it assuming you'll buy APs from them. If anything I found that companies will do it for a lot of money but give you a significant credit if you buy APs/controllers/service from them. That doesn't work with our procurement system that needs 3 lowest bidders. Good Luck! -Winston On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:41 AM, John Kaftanjkaftan@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: I know this is a crazy question with tons of variables but I am trying to at least get an idea of what it would cost to do a wireless survey in our residence halls. We have 7 buildings built over the years with a variety of construction materials. Each building has 3-4 floors. We have a total of 1100 students living on campus. Has anyone had a commercial wireless survey done and if so can you give me any idea of what I would be looking at? My intention is to do this via an Internship so I do not really want to shop this out and put vendors through the paces. I just want to give an estimate of what it would cost the college if we were to have a commercial provider do the work. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] iPad spontaneous reboots?
On 03/15/2011 06:59 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: It's always fun when toy-quality wireless devices hit the enterprise WLAN (he said rather sarcastically). *cough* Kindles *cough* -- Matt Gracie (716) 888-8378 Information Security Administrator grac...@canisius.edu Canisius College ITSBuffalo, NY http://www2.canisius.edu/~graciem/graciem_public_key.gpg ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost
So let me ask this... Given the need for designs based on capacity rather than coverage, do those who've done site surveys previously feel they are still worth the trouble? When we deployed, we based our coverage on capacity which resulted in AP's no more than 50' apart in general areas, and classroom deployment based on room capacity (1 dual-radio AP for 12, 2 for 24, etc.). As such, I've yet to find a coverage hole in either 2.4GHz or 5GHz, and the idea of doing a site survey, while so important in the days of coverage planning, now seems unnecessary. Thoughts? best, Jeff John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edu 3/15/2011 5:50 PM Thanks, but I have purchased already. We will be doing this backwards. We are pulling extra drops and leaving 20' coils of cable above the ceilings and then throw up the APs and see what happens. Not perfect but we have been doing alright with that. We have a feel for it and the students report happiness. This summer we will do the survey to tighten things up a bit. I am considering dropping the wired ports as our LAN is past due for a refresh and I do not want to re-invest in the port-per-pillow model. John On 3/15/2011 7:09 PM, Brian Helman wrote: Have you already selected a wireless product? If not, I think you'd be far better served issuing an RFP for full procurement and installation, with signal guarantees (I'd recommend -68dBm). If you have holes, the contract should be on the hook for it. Take advantage of this economy. Vendors will jump on this. Remember, antennas vary GREATLY. If you do a survey and then bid out and end up with a different product than you conducted the survey with, you could end up with holes. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of heath.barnhart [heath.barnh...@washburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:57 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost If you have any resellers/technology partners/consultants you might ask them. Standard consultant fees would probably apply (I've seen $150-$300/hour). If they're good they should be able to survey a couple buildings in a day (which should be less than $1500 a floor). You could also do it yourself. Someone mentioned Ekahau; we use Airmagnet Survey. Its good too have a survey solution for troubleshooting anyways. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 On 3/14/2011 4:46 PM, Winston Chow wrote: Usually companies don't like to do site surveys because they do it assuming you'll buy APs from them. If anything I found that companies will do it for a lot of money but give you a significant credit if you buy APs/controllers/service from them. That doesn't work with our procurement system that needs 3 lowest bidders. Good Luck! -Winston On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:41 AM, John Kaftanjkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: I know this is a crazy question with tons of variables but I am trying to at least get an idea of what it would cost to do a wireless survey in our residence halls. We have 7 buildings built over the years with a variety of construction materials. Each building has 3-4 floors. We have a total of 1100 students living on campus. Has anyone had a commercial wireless survey done and if so can you give me any idea of what I would be looking at? My intention is to do this via an Internship so I do not really want to shop this out and put vendors through the paces. I just want to give an estimate of what it would cost the college if we were to have a commercial provider do the work. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost
I don't believe there is any cookie-cutter answer anyone can give. All of our designs are likely variant due to the needs of wireless. Surveys/designs should be performed in accordance to what applications you plan to leverage. If you're deploying a dense VoWLAN deployment, requirements are different than that of simple coverage. Wireless in auditoriums, etc., will require a completely different design. I'd recommend identifying your requirements then coming up your strategy for surveying/design. For the majority of our locations, coverage is the primary requirements, so we perform active surveys of those locations, ensuring that the 2.4GHz design conforms to the 5GHz design. . . . my two cents. == Ryan Holland Network Engineer, Wireless Office of the Chief Information Officer The Ohio State University 614-292-9906 holland@osu.edu On Mar 16, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Jeffrey Sessler wrote: So let me ask this... Given the need for designs based on capacity rather than coverage, do those who've done site surveys previously feel they are still worth the trouble? When we deployed, we based our coverage on capacity which resulted in AP's no more than 50' apart in general areas, and classroom deployment based on room capacity (1 dual-radio AP for 12, 2 for 24, etc.). As such, I've yet to find a coverage hole in either 2.4GHz or 5GHz, and the idea of doing a site survey, while so important in the days of coverage planning, now seems unnecessary. Thoughts? best, Jeff John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edu 3/15/2011 5:50 PM Thanks, but I have purchased already. We will be doing this backwards. We are pulling extra drops and leaving 20' coils of cable above the ceilings and then throw up the APs and see what happens. Not perfect but we have been doing alright with that. We have a feel for it and the students report happiness. This summer we will do the survey to tighten things up a bit. I am considering dropping the wired ports as our LAN is past due for a refresh and I do not want to re-invest in the port-per-pillow model. John On 3/15/2011 7:09 PM, Brian Helman wrote: Have you already selected a wireless product? If not, I think you'd be far better served issuing an RFP for full procurement and installation, with signal guarantees (I'd recommend -68dBm). If you have holes, the contract should be on the hook for it. Take advantage of this economy. Vendors will jump on this. Remember, antennas vary GREATLY. If you do a survey and then bid out and end up with a different product than you conducted the survey with, you could end up with holes. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of heath.barnhart [heath.barnh...@washburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:57 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost If you have any resellers/technology partners/consultants you might ask them. Standard consultant fees would probably apply (I've seen $150-$300/hour). If they're good they should be able to survey a couple buildings in a day (which should be less than $1500 a floor). You could also do it yourself. Someone mentioned Ekahau; we use Airmagnet Survey. Its good too have a survey solution for troubleshooting anyways. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 On 3/14/2011 4:46 PM, Winston Chow wrote: Usually companies don't like to do site surveys because they do it assuming you'll buy APs from them. If anything I found that companies will do it for a lot of money but give you a significant credit if you buy APs/controllers/service from them. That doesn't work with our procurement system that needs 3 lowest bidders. Good Luck! -Winston On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:41 AM, John Kaftanjkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: I know this is a crazy question with tons of variables but I am trying to at least get an idea of what it would cost to do a wireless survey in our residence halls. We have 7 buildings built over the years with a variety of construction materials. Each building has 3-4 floors. We have a total of 1100 students living on campus. Has anyone had a commercial wireless survey done and if so can you give me any idea of what I would be looking at? My intention is to do this via an Internship so I do not really want to shop this out and put vendors through the paces. I just want to give an estimate of what it would cost the college if we were to have a commercial provider do the work. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost
If people are building new dorms, I'd definitely run copper to any common rooms if you support any gaming consoles. Honestly though, we have a good density of wiring even in the dorms and I'm pretty close to shutting down or at least limiting the bandwidth available for video on the wireless network. Netflix, Flash and Youtube are killing it (not to mention our Internet connection). -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Coehoorn Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 10:30 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost Agree I wouldn't run new port-per-pillow drops, but I wouldn't ditch existing drops (just update the switching) and anywhere you have apartment-style living I would put a wired port in the common space for game consoles/blu-ray/smart tvs/etc. Those who actually use the ports will be the few who know enough to know why it's better, and they also tend to be your heaviest users. It's nice to get some of the gaming and netflix traffic out of your airspace. On Mar 15, 2011 7:50pm, John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: Thanks, but I have purchased already. We will be doing this backwards. We are pulling extra drops and leaving 20' coils of cable above the ceilings and then throw up the APs and see what happens. Not perfect but we have been doing alright with that. We have a feel for it and the students report happiness. This summer we will do the survey to tighten things up a bit. I am considering dropping the wired ports as our LAN is past due for a refresh and I do not want to re-invest in the port-per-pillow model. John On 3/15/2011 7:09 PM, Brian Helman wrote: Have you already selected a wireless product? If not, I think you'd be far better served issuing an RFP for full procurement and installation, with signal guarantees (I'd recommend -68dBm). If you have holes, the contract should be on the hook for it. Take advantage of this economy. Vendors will jump on this. Remember, antennas vary GREATLY. If you do a survey and then bid out and end up with a different product than you conducted the survey with, you could end up with holes. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of heath.barnhart [heath.barnh...@washburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:57 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost If you have any resellers/technology partners/consultants you might ask them. Standard consultant fees would probably apply (I've seen $150-$300/hour). If they're good they should be able to survey a couple buildings in a day (which should be less than $1500 a floor). You could also do it yourself. Someone mentioned Ekahau; we use Airmagnet Survey. Its good too have a survey solution for troubleshooting anyways. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 On 3/14/2011 4:46 PM, Winston Chow wrote: Usually companies don't like to do site surveys because they do it assuming you'll buy APs from them. If anything I found that companies will do it for a lot of money but give you a significant credit if you buy APs/controllers/service from them. That doesn't work with our procurement system that needs 3 lowest bidders. Good Luck! -Winston On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:41 AM, John Kaftanjkaftan@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: I know this is a crazy question with tons of variables but I am trying to at least get an idea of what it would cost to do a wireless survey in our residence halls. We have 7 buildings built over the years with a variety of construction materials. Each building has 3-4 floors. We have a total of 1100 students living on campus. Has anyone had a commercial wireless survey done and if so can you give me any idea of what I would be looking at? My intention is to do this via an Internship so I do not really want to shop this out and put vendors through the paces. I just want to give an estimate of what it would cost the college if we were to have a commercial provider do the work. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 ** Participation and
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost
I have everyone held back to 2 Mbs on wireless. That seems to be a good number for now. Nobody is complaining and it helps to keep their experience consistent. They can watch a Netflix movie with that. I imagine Netflix would use more bandwidth if it could. I have not tested though. On 3/16/2011 6:28 PM, Brian Helman wrote: If people are building new dorms, I'd definitely run copper to any common rooms if you support any gaming consoles. Honestly though, we have a good density of wiring even in the dorms and I'm pretty close to shutting down or at least limiting the bandwidth available for video on the wireless network. Netflix, Flash and Youtube are killing it (not to mention our Internet connection). -Brian *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Joel Coehoorn *Sent:* Tuesday, March 15, 2011 10:30 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost Agree I wouldn't run new port-per-pillow drops, but I wouldn't ditch existing drops (just update the switching) and anywhere you have apartment-style living I would put a wired port in the common space for game consoles/blu-ray/smart tvs/etc. Those who actually use the ports will be the few who know enough to know why it's better, and they also tend to be your heaviest users. It's nice to get some of the gaming and netflix traffic out of your airspace. On Mar 15, 2011 7:50pm, John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: Thanks, but I have purchased already. We will be doing this backwards. We are pulling extra drops and leaving 20' coils of cable above the ceilings and then throw up the APs and see what happens. Not perfect but we have been doing alright with that. We have a feel for it and the students report happiness. This summer we will do the survey to tighten things up a bit. I am considering dropping the wired ports as our LAN is past due for a refresh and I do not want to re-invest in the port-per-pillow model. John On 3/15/2011 7:09 PM, Brian Helman wrote: Have you already selected a wireless product? If not, I think you'd be far better served issuing an RFP for full procurement and installation, with signal guarantees (I'd recommend -68dBm). If you have holes, the contract should be on the hook for it. Take advantage of this economy. Vendors will jump on this. Remember, antennas vary GREATLY. If you do a survey and then bid out and end up with a different product than you conducted the survey with, you could end up with holes. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of heath.barnhart [heath.barnh...@washburn.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:57 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Site Survey cost If you have any resellers/technology partners/consultants you might ask them. Standard consultant fees would probably apply (I've seen $150-$300/hour). If they're good they should be able to survey a couple buildings in a day (which should be less than $1500 a floor). You could also do it yourself. Someone mentioned Ekahau; we use Airmagnet Survey. Its good too have a survey solution for troubleshooting anyways. -- Heath Barnhart, CCNA Network Administrator Information Systems and Services Washburn University Topeka, KS 66621 On 3/14/2011 4:46 PM, Winston Chow wrote: Usually companies don't like to do site surveys because they do it assuming you'll buy APs from them. If anything I found that companies will do it for a lot of money but give you a significant credit if you buy APs/controllers/service from them. That doesn't work with our procurement system that needs 3 lowest bidders. Good Luck! -Winston On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:41 AM, John Kaftanjkaftan@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu wrote: I know this is a crazy question with tons of variables but I am trying to at least get an idea of what it would cost to do a wireless survey in our residence halls. We have 7 buildings built over the years with a variety of construction materials. Each building has 3-4 floors. We have a total of 1100 students living on campus. Has anyone had a commercial wireless survey done and if so can you give me any idea of what I would be looking at? My intention is to do this via an Internship so I do not really want to shop this out and put vendors through the paces. I just want to give an estimate of what it would cost the college if we were to have a commercial provider do the work. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College 315.792.3102 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
