RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

2017-01-18 Thread Chuck Enfield 
Jeff,



I see your point and it’s a good one, but your comment mixes categories. 
The financial consideration is CapEx vs. OpEx, not local hardware vs. cloud 
service.  OpEx isn’t necessarily preferable, and there are ways to 
operationalize hardware expenses when it’s preferable to do so - leasing 
being the most common.



Chuck



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure



>From a management and finance point of view, SaaS/IaaS are very much 
preferable to CapEx (hardware) and the expense of staff. In my experience, 
these solutions tend to provide savings or cost containment, where the 
ongoing cost of the licensing is offset by the need for less staff, either 
thru reduction, reassignment, or no-growth.



Jeff



From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu 
 " 
 > on behalf of "Spurgeon, 
Charles E"  >
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu 
 " 
 >
Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 1:04 PM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu 
 " 
 >
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure



Another consideration is what happens if you run out of budget for license 
renewals for any reason.



Unlike equipment you own with a perpetual license, the cloud-based 
networking gear will stop functioning unless you feed it licensing money on 
regular intervals as evidenced by the email below.



-Charles



--

Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 16:02:49 +

From: Meraki  >

Subject: Warning: Your Meraki networks will stop working tomorrow



   Dear Charles Spurgeon,



   Thank you for being a valued Meraki customer. Our records show that your

   Meraki Cloud license has expired.



   If you wish to continue using your Meraki networks, you must renew your

   license immediately. If you choose not to renew, your Meraki systems will

   cease to provide network access on May 2, 2016. If you have recently made

   a Meraki purchase, please add your license key to your Dashboard account.



   Licensing information can be viewed here: [removed]



   To purchase additional licenses, please contact Meraki Sales or your

   authorized Meraki reseller. You can find contact information at

   [2]meraki.cisco.com.



   Please let us know if you have any questions. A [3]license expiration FAQ

   is also available on our website.



   Regards,



   The Cisco Meraki Team



1.https://n77.meraki.com/o/04Drhc/manage/dashboard/license_info

   2. http://meraki.cisco.com/form/contact

   3. 
https://documentation.meraki.com/zGeneral_Administration/Licensing/Licensing_FAQ

   4. https://n77.meraki.com/login/license_warning_opt_out?key=347875_04Drhc

---



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:00 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 

Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure



One important consideration that was missed in regard to cloud services is 
what happens if your provider goes out of business.  I don’t mean to suggest 
it’s a show stopper, but you should ask yourself what the odds are that it 
will happen and what the consequences are if it does.



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hall, Rand
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:02 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 

Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure



Lee's is about as good an analysis as you can get:



"Put another less cynical way, the cloud stuff works well when IT resources 
(or patience) are thin as it takes a few major headaches out of the 
equation. But there is no free lunch- the hidden costs of cloud managed is 
less features (this is good and bad IMO), less visibility down deep in the 
individual pieces, and as you are hinting at… a leap of faith on trusting 
the cloud."



We've run a 700 AP cloud-based deployment for 5 years with just one minor 
cloud problem early on that lasted a couple of hours with minimal practical 
impact. This is much better uptime than I can provide botching maintenance 
now and then.








Rand



Rand P. Hall

Director, Network

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

2017-01-18 Thread Jeffrey D. Sessler 
From a management and finance point of view, SaaS/IaaS are very much preferable 
to CapEx (hardware) and the expense of staff. In my experience, these solutions 
tend to provide savings or cost containment, where the ongoing cost of the 
licensing is offset by the need for less staff, either thru reduction, 
reassignment, or no-growth.

Jeff

From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu"  
on behalf of "Spurgeon, Charles E" 
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 

Date: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 1:04 PM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

Another consideration is what happens if you run out of budget for license 
renewals for any reason.

Unlike equipment you own with a perpetual license, the cloud-based networking 
gear will stop functioning unless you feed it licensing money on regular 
intervals as evidenced by the email below.

-Charles

--
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 16:02:49 +
From: Meraki 
Subject: Warning: Your Meraki networks will stop working tomorrow

   Dear Charles Spurgeon,

   Thank you for being a valued Meraki customer. Our records show that your
   Meraki Cloud license has expired.

   If you wish to continue using your Meraki networks, you must renew your
   license immediately. If you choose not to renew, your Meraki systems will
   cease to provide network access on May 2, 2016. If you have recently made
   a Meraki purchase, please add your license key to your Dashboard account.

   Licensing information can be viewed here: [removed]

   To purchase additional licenses, please contact Meraki Sales or your
   authorized Meraki reseller. You can find contact information at
   [2]meraki.cisco.com.

   Please let us know if you have any questions. A [3]license expiration FAQ
   is also available on our website.

   Regards,

   The Cisco Meraki Team

1.https://n77.meraki.com/o/04Drhc/manage/dashboard/license_info
   2. http://meraki.cisco.com/form/contact
   3. 
https://documentation.meraki.com/zGeneral_Administration/Licensing/Licensing_FAQ
   4. https://n77.meraki.com/login/license_warning_opt_out?key=347875_04Drhc
---

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:00 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

One important consideration that was missed in regard to cloud services is what 
happens if your provider goes out of business.  I don’t mean to suggest it’s a 
show stopper, but you should ask yourself what the odds are that it will happen 
and what the consequences are if it does.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hall, Rand
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:02 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

Lee's is about as good an analysis as you can get:

"Put another less cynical way, the cloud stuff works well when IT resources (or 
patience) are thin as it takes a few major headaches out of the equation. But 
there is no free lunch- the hidden costs of cloud managed is less features 
(this is good and bad IMO), less visibility down deep in the individual pieces, 
and as you are hinting at… a leap of faith on trusting the cloud."

We've run a 700 AP cloud-based deployment for 5 years with just one minor cloud 
problem early on that lasted a couple of hours with minimal practical impact. 
This is much better uptime than I can provide botching maintenance now and then.



Rand

Rand P. Hall
Director, Network Services askIT!
Merrimack College
978-837-3532
rand.h...@merrimack.edu

If I had an hour to save the world, I would spend 55 minutes defining the 
problem and five minutes finding solutions. – Einstein

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Lee H Badman 
> wrote:
To add a bit to Sam’s input- running both on prem and cloud systems makes me 
thoroughly appreciate that on the cloud side, someone else is on the hook for 
care and feeding of things like the management system and the “cloud 
controller” or the “no controller” or whatever each vendor wants to call their 
magic. If the premise versions weren’t too-frequently bug-ridden, it may be a 
different story. But spending copious amounts of time keeping up system 
building blocks through their code issues makes you appreciate the cloud 
versions that just generally work.

Put another less cynical way, the cloud stuff works well when IT resources (or 
patience) are thin as it takes a few major headaches out of the equation. But

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

2017-01-18 Thread Jeffrey D. Sessler 
Bruce,

I know from personal experience, that the two leaders in this space have issues 
with code quality. It’s impossible to judge an old solution abandoned in 2008 
with what’s available now, unless you are still running both. Do you have both 
solutions in play?

BTW – This isn’t a vendor-neutral list. IMHO, the Cisco people are far more 
likely to post and talk about problems for one simple reason. As the #1 vendor 
by a large margin in the space, no one is going to question their decision to 
use it (even when complaining). If you are a Xirrus customer and the decision 
maker/influencer, then you probably aren’t going to knock them in a public 
forum.

Oh, and by the numbers. Cisco 47%, HP/Aruba 17%. Ruckus at 8% and going like 
gang busters, Aerohive 2%. Based on mainstream WiFi vendors, Cisco’s market 
share is significantly larger than the others combined.

Jeff

From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu"  
on behalf of "bosbo...@liberty.edu" 
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 

Date: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 6:48 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

Lee,
You mention

If the premise versions weren’t too-frequently bug-ridden, it may be a 
different story

Please do not assume all wireless vendors are equal. We changed due to the 
obviously abysmal wireless support from Cisco in 2008.

For reference, look at this vendor-neutral list and you will see more 
references to Cisco than all other vendors combined. Cisco wireless is not 
larger than all competitors combined, or at least not by that extent.


Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless

 (434) 592-4229

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Lee H Badman [mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Cloud managed infrastructure

Not to quibble, but Smartnet, etc really no different here. Everyone’s “a 
software company!” now, which has lifted the floodgates on licensing for all 
the major players- lots of time-limited examples of recurring revenue in the 
form of licensing for cloud and not. Is getting to the point where we rent WLAN 
systems, we really don’t own them.

Just my opinion as someone living in both worlds.

-Lee

Lee Badman | CWNE #200 | Network Architect

Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Spurgeon, Charles E
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 4:04 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

Another consideration is what happens if you run out of budget for license 
renewals for any reason.

Unlike equipment you own with a perpetual license, the cloud-based networking 
gear will stop functioning unless you feed it licensing money on regular 
intervals as evidenced by the email below.

-Charles

--
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 16:02:49 +
From: Meraki >
Subject: Warning: Your Meraki networks will stop working tomorrow

   Dear Charles Spurgeon,

   Thank you for being a valued Meraki customer. Our records show that your
   Meraki Cloud license has expired.

   If you wish to continue using your Meraki networks, you must renew your
   license immediately. If you choose not to renew, your Meraki systems will
   cease to provide network access on May 2, 2016. If you have recently made
   a Meraki purchase, please add your license key to your Dashboard account.

   Licensing information can be viewed here: [removed]

   To purchase additional licenses, please contact Meraki Sales or your
   authorized Meraki reseller. You can find contact information at
   [2]meraki.cisco.com.

   Please let us know if you have any questions. A [3]license expiration FAQ
   is also available on our website.

   Regards,

   The Cisco Meraki Team

1.https://n77.meraki.com/o/04Drhc/manage/dashboard/license_info
   2. http://meraki.cisco.com/form/contact
   3. 
https://documentation.meraki.com/zGeneral_Administration/Licensing/Licensing_FAQ
   4. https://n77.meraki.com/login/license_warning_opt_out?key=347875_04Drhc
---

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:00 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

One important consideration that was missed in regard to cloud services

RE: Cloud managed infrastructure

2017-01-18 Thread Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) 
Lee,
You mention

If the premise versions weren’t too-frequently bug-ridden, it may be a 
different story

Please do not assume all wireless vendors are equal. We changed due to the 
obviously abysmal wireless support from Cisco in 2008.

For reference, look at this vendor-neutral list and you will see more 
references to Cisco than all other vendors combined. Cisco wireless is not 
larger than all competitors combined, or at least not by that extent.


Bruce Osborne
Senior Network Engineer
Network Operations - Wireless

 (434) 592-4229

LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971

From: Lee H Badman [mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Cloud managed infrastructure

Not to quibble, but Smartnet, etc really no different here. Everyone’s “a 
software company!” now, which has lifted the floodgates on licensing for all 
the major players- lots of time-limited examples of recurring revenue in the 
form of licensing for cloud and not. Is getting to the point where we rent WLAN 
systems, we really don’t own them.

Just my opinion as someone living in both worlds.

-Lee

Lee Badman | CWNE #200 | Network Architect

Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu w 
its.syr.edu
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Spurgeon, Charles E
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 4:04 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

Another consideration is what happens if you run out of budget for license 
renewals for any reason.

Unlike equipment you own with a perpetual license, the cloud-based networking 
gear will stop functioning unless you feed it licensing money on regular 
intervals as evidenced by the email below.

-Charles

--
Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 16:02:49 +
From: Meraki >
Subject: Warning: Your Meraki networks will stop working tomorrow

   Dear Charles Spurgeon,

   Thank you for being a valued Meraki customer. Our records show that your
   Meraki Cloud license has expired.

   If you wish to continue using your Meraki networks, you must renew your
   license immediately. If you choose not to renew, your Meraki systems will
   cease to provide network access on May 2, 2016. If you have recently made
   a Meraki purchase, please add your license key to your Dashboard account.

   Licensing information can be viewed here: [removed]

   To purchase additional licenses, please contact Meraki Sales or your
   authorized Meraki reseller. You can find contact information at
   [2]meraki.cisco.com.

   Please let us know if you have any questions. A [3]license expiration FAQ
   is also available on our website.

   Regards,

   The Cisco Meraki Team

1.https://n77.meraki.com/o/04Drhc/manage/dashboard/license_info
   2. http://meraki.cisco.com/form/contact
   3. 
https://documentation.meraki.com/zGeneral_Administration/Licensing/Licensing_FAQ
   4. https://n77.meraki.com/login/license_warning_opt_out?key=347875_04Drhc
---

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:00 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

One important consideration that was missed in regard to cloud services is what 
happens if your provider goes out of business.  I don’t mean to suggest it’s a 
show stopper, but you should ask yourself what the odds are that it will happen 
and what the consequences are if it does.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hall, Rand
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:02 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Cloud managed infrastructure

Lee's is about as good an analysis as you can get:

"Put another less cynical way, the cloud stuff works well when IT resources (or 
patience) are thin as it takes a few major headaches out of the equation. But 
there is no free lunch- the hidden costs of cloud managed is less features 
(this is good and bad IMO), less visibility down deep in the individual pieces, 
and as you are hinting at… a leap of faith on trusting the cloud."

We've run a 700 AP cloud-based deployment for 5 years with just one minor cloud 
problem early on that lasted a couple of hours with minimal practical impact. 
This is much better uptime than I can provide botching maintenance now and then.



Rand

Rand P. Hall
Director, Network Services askIT!
Merrimack