RE: PoE Load Tester Recommendation

[Glinsky, Eric]

We use NetAlly LinkRunners here, the G2 most recently. 
https://www.netally.com/products/linkrunnerg2/

The G2 will load test up to 90W, the older AT2000 will do 30W. A nice bonus on 
the G2 is the PoE power will charge the device. The copper TDR test, tone 
generation, connectivity tests, and CDP/LLDP neighbor information are also very 
helpful in our daily operations.

I was going to write that I was never able to get a LinkRunner to pull any more 
than 15W from any of our Cisco switches, but then I realized that LLDP wasn't 
enabled on our switches, and after configuring "lldp run" globally on my PoE+ 
test switch, the G2 now pulls 25W as it should when set to Class 4 with LLDP 
enabled. Apparently it's disabled by default. Just something for Cisco shops to 
watch out for. I haven't had a chance to test on a UPOE switch yet.

If I choose any class above Class 4 (25.5W) in the G2, LLDP is no longer an 
option, and if hooked up to my PoE+ test switch, the G2 will only pull 13W and 
not try to maximize the power it can pull (25W). So, I just have to choose 
whichever class the switch is capable of for accurate testing, unless they 
improve this in software updates.


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Floyd, Brad
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:43 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

Can anyone recommend a device to PoE load test network jacks? I have some jacks 
that pass the installer's Category Certification, but are not passing the 
appropriate PoE to bring the APs online. I would like to be able to load test 
for 802.3af, 802.3at, and 802.3bt (at both 60W and 90W), as appropriate. I 
assume I would need to be able to set the load to apply (in Watts) and see the 
voltage level at the Powered Device. The usual constraints apply. Cheaper, but 
reliable is best.
Thanks,
Brad


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RE: [EXT] Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation

[Swenson, Chris]

For a quick check I use the Fluke Networks LinkSprinter 200 Ethernet Network 
Tester, (Not what you originally asked, but I like to hear myself talk)
I installed wireless here in the 90’s and it has only metastasized everywhere 
since. (I keep a 10 meg ½ duplex behind my desk to scare the newbies)
One thing that tripped us up from time to time is upgrading the switches and 
AP’s but the wire and jacks are only cat 5e and not rated for the voltages and 
speeds of today’s AP’s.
Maybe a dozen times a year I find burnt jacks or cables that have aged out over 
the decades and now I insist all upgrades come hand in hand with cable 
upgrades. (to say nothing of squirrels chewing cables in attics)
Now I always go for the most advanced standard in any rebuild install.
Chris Swenson
Curry College
Network manager


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Ethan Grinnell
Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 3:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [EXT] Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation


[EXTERNAL EMAIL] CAUTION: This message originated outside of Curry College. Use 
caution when opening attachments, clicking links or responding to requests for 
information.
I wouldn't suggest hacking together anything to test PoE. It's way more 
complicated than it seems like it would be. If your test device said that a 
link failed would you really know if it was an issue with PoE/Cabling or your 
device?

If you're looking for a cheap method, here's a PoE PD client evaluation PCB 
from Analog Devices 
https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/DC2911A.html.
 At only $95 I doubt you'd find a cheaper solution that lets you adjust the 
requested power. It's not automated and it's not even in an enclosure, but it'd 
give you all you need to know that PoE is working. I've haven't used one 
before, so I can't say for sure if it'd work out of the box, but it looks like 
it should be good.

This Fluke seems good if you want an actual tester. It tests up to 90W 
802.3af/at/bt and has a 10G interface. I have no experience with it either, but 
Fluke always seems to make good products.
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/network-cable-testers/copper/linkiq-100

Ethan Grinnell
CCIE Enterprise Infrastructure  #39723, BS CmpE
Network Engineer
Office of Information Technology, Technology Infrastructure, Networking
Portland State University


On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 1:03 PM Neumann, Paul 
mailto:pa...@uic.edu>> wrote:
I suspect some (non-trivial) time and tinkering would be needed to make this 
work.  I see a major issue is that all the flavors (classes) of POE require the 
devices to first complete a power negotiation phase where the endpoint requests 
the proper class of power needed.  Only then is power delivered to your 
resistance (properly sized for wattage with an appropriate heatsink).   Also 
power is delivered over the data lines for certain poe modes - you need to 
separate the baseline voltage from the data communication that is superimposed 
over that.  All the above should be achievable for anyone with a EE background. 
 I’m sure there is some level of devil in the details.

This would be a cool senior project for an  upper level/grad student in 
electrical engineering but for serious work, I would just buy a fluke tester.

Paul
--
Paul Neumann
Lead Network Engineer

Technology Solutions (formerly ACCC)
Unversity of Illinois Chicago

E: pa...@uic.edu
P: (312) 355-0113
Room 124, Benjamin Goldberg Research Center, University of Illinois at Chicago
it.uic.edu
Visit the UIC Help Center at help.uic.edu to find IT 
Services, Answers, and Support!

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
 On Behalf Of Beyerle, David Evan
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 6:44 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation

Brad,
Recall that P=V^2/R, so it seems as though applying the appropriately sized & 
load-rated resistance network across the pairs delivering power, and then 
measuring the voltage dropped across that resistance network would give you a 
reasonably good indication of whether the appropriate power is being delivered 
to the load.  For 60W in seems like you might choose R~75 Ohm on each of two 
pair, but I’d encourage you to double-check my arithmetic.

Best,
Dave

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Floyd, Brad mailto:bfl...@mail.smu.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:43 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester 

RE: PoE Load Tester Recommendation

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

I don't know about other brands, but if you have Cisco Catalyst switches, many 
have a built in TDR that can help with determining if you have a cable/distance 
issue.  In a building we completed a couple of years ago I found some of the AP 
runs exceeded 100m (conduit plan not followed), which did limit multigig speeds

If you are having POE and link issues not meeting your needs, did your 
low-voltage vendor commit any sins such as bundling Cat6a tightly together with 
zip ties and in long uniform bundles?  If they didn't use F/UTP, those very 
pretty bundles/dressing can be murder on alien crosstalk.

Lastly, for POE in particular, did you happen to use reduced size thin or 
ultrathin Cat6 patch cables?  For newer AP's that require 30-60W, those thin 
Cat6a cables can contribute to power issues.

Jeff

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Floyd, Brad
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 8:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation

Hey JJ,
Good to hear from you, thanks for the reply. It looks like (from the 
description) the LinkRunner G2 and above will do the actual PoE load test I'm 
looking for (not just repeating what LLDP/CDP is saying the capabilities are). 
The LinkRunner 10G also appears to test the NBASE-T / 802.3bz standard for 
M-Gig. I've had some new construction recently where most all APs in a building 
link up at 5 Gbps, but a couple only link up at 2.5 Gbps. I would like to be 
able to test for that too. However. The $6k+ price tag is fairly steep.

Hopefully we can catch up again post-pandemic at WLPC soon. Is the domain 
change from CAD to Viszen a good thing? We can discuss offline if you prefer.
Thanks,
Brad

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Jennifer Minella
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2021 4:25 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation


[EXTERNAL SENDER]
Hi Brad,
If your team or a friend has a NetAlly tool around, that would kill a few birds 
with one stone and provide detailed PoE reporting (among a million other 
things).
https://www.netally.com/products/

Specifically, these are the wired products. Starting at the LinkRunner AT model 
and going up, those have various PoE validation capabilities, increasing in 
capability as you head up to the LinkRunner G2 and then EtherScope nXG (which 
also does WiFi testing and makes coffee for you).

Some of them can also be remotely controlled, so you can throw it to NOC, a 
tech, intern, whatever - and control it from the Interwebs.

[cid:image001.jpg@01D7A576.C342AE10]

_
Jennifer Minella, CISSP
Founder, Principal Advisor- Security Architecture
Viszen Security
919.539.2726 mobile/text
j...@viszensecurity.com
https://www.viszensecurity.com
[cid:image002.png@01D7A576.C342AE10]
Get free network security insights delivered to your inbox 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation

[Ethan Grinnell]

I wouldn't suggest hacking together anything to test PoE. It's way more
complicated than it seems like it would be. If your test device said that a
link failed would you really know if it was an issue with PoE/Cabling or
your device?

If you're looking for a cheap method, here's a PoE PD client evaluation PCB
from Analog Devices
https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/evaluation-hardware-and-software/evaluation-boards-kits/DC2911A.html.
At only $95 I doubt you'd find a cheaper solution that lets you adjust the
requested power. It's not automated and it's not even in an enclosure, but
it'd give you all you need to know that PoE is working. I've haven't used
one before, so I can't say for sure if it'd work out of the box, but it
looks like it should be good.

This Fluke seems good if you want an actual tester. It tests up to 90W
802.3af/at/bt and has a 10G interface. I have no experience with it either,
but Fluke always seems to make good products.
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/network-cable-testers/copper/linkiq-100

Ethan Grinnell
CCIE Enterprise Infrastructure  #39723, BS CmpE
Network Engineer
Office of Information Technology, Technology Infrastructure, Networking
Portland State University


On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 1:03 PM Neumann, Paul  wrote:

> I suspect some (non-trivial) time and tinkering would be needed to make
> this work.  I see a major issue is that all the flavors (classes) of POE
> require the devices to first complete a power negotiation phase where the
> endpoint requests the proper class of power needed.  Only then is power
> delivered to your resistance (properly sized for wattage with an
> appropriate heatsink).   Also power is delivered over the data lines for
> certain poe modes - you need to separate the baseline voltage from the data
> communication that is superimposed over that.  All the above should be
> achievable for anyone with a EE background.  I’m sure there is some level
> of devil in the details.
>
>
>
> This would be a cool senior project for an  upper level/grad student in
> electrical engineering but for serious work, I would just buy a fluke
> tester.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> --
>
> Paul Neumann
>
> Lead Network Engineer
>
>
>
> Technology Solutions (formerly ACCC)
>
> Unversity of Illinois Chicago
>
>
>
> E: pa...@uic.edu
>
> P: (312) 355-0113
>
> Room 124, Benjamin Goldberg Research Center, University of Illinois at
> Chicago
>
> it.uic.edu
>
> Visit the UIC Help Center at help.uic.edu to find IT Services, Answers,
> and Support!
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Beyerle, David Evan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2021 6:44 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation
>
>
>
> Brad,
>
> Recall that P=V^2/R, so it seems as though applying the appropriately
> sized & load-rated resistance network across the pairs delivering power,
> and then measuring the voltage dropped across that resistance network would
> give you a reasonably good indication of whether the appropriate power is
> being delivered to the load.  For 60W in seems like you might choose R~75
> Ohm on each of two pair, but I’d encourage you to double-check my
> arithmetic.
>
> Best,
> Dave
>
> --
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Floyd, Brad <
> bfl...@mail.smu.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:43 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation
>
>
>
> Can anyone recommend a device to PoE load test network jacks? I have some
> jacks that pass the installer’s Category Certification, but are not passing
> the appropriate PoE to bring the APs online. I would like to be able to
> load test for 802.3af, 802.3at, and 802.3bt (at both 60W and 90W), as
> appropriate. I assume I would need to be able to set the load to apply (in
> Watts) and see the voltage level at the Powered Device. The usual
> constraints apply. Cheaper, but reliable is best.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/community
> 
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to 

RE: PoE Load Tester Recommendation

[Floyd, Brad]

Hey JJ,
Good to hear from you, thanks for the reply. It looks like (from the 
description) the LinkRunner G2 and above will do the actual PoE load test I'm 
looking for (not just repeating what LLDP/CDP is saying the capabilities are). 
The LinkRunner 10G also appears to test the NBASE-T / 802.3bz standard for 
M-Gig. I've had some new construction recently where most all APs in a building 
link up at 5 Gbps, but a couple only link up at 2.5 Gbps. I would like to be 
able to test for that too. However. The $6k+ price tag is fairly steep.

Hopefully we can catch up again post-pandemic at WLPC soon. Is the domain 
change from CAD to Viszen a good thing? We can discuss offline if you prefer.
Thanks,
Brad

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Jennifer Minella
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2021 4:25 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] PoE Load Tester Recommendation


[EXTERNAL SENDER]
Hi Brad,
If your team or a friend has a NetAlly tool around, that would kill a few birds 
with one stone and provide detailed PoE reporting (among a million other 
things).
https://www.netally.com/products/

Specifically, these are the wired products. Starting at the LinkRunner AT model 
and going up, those have various PoE validation capabilities, increasing in 
capability as you head up to the LinkRunner G2 and then EtherScope nXG (which 
also does WiFi testing and makes coffee for you).

Some of them can also be remotely controlled, so you can throw it to NOC, a 
tech, intern, whatever - and control it from the Interwebs.

[cid:image003.jpg@01D7A566.DBCDE4F0]

_
Jennifer Minella, CISSP
Founder, Principal Advisor- Security Architecture
Viszen Security
919.539.2726 mobile/text
j...@viszensecurity.com
https://www.viszensecurity.com
[cid:image005.png@01D7A566.DBCDE4F0]
Get free network security insights delivered to your inbox 
https://zc.vg/K5Fzk

From: Floyd, Brad mailto:bfl...@mail.smu.edu>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 5:43 PM
Subject: PoE Load Tester Recommendation

Can anyone recommend a device to PoE load test network jacks? I have some jacks 
that pass the installer's Category Certification, but are not passing the 
appropriate PoE to bring the APs online. I would like to be able to load test 
for 802.3af, 802.3at, and 802.3bt (at both 60W and 90W), as appropriate. I 
assume I would need to be able to set the load to apply (in Watts) and see the 
voltage level at the Powered Device. The usual constraints apply. Cheaper, but 
reliable is best.
Thanks,
Brad


**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
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list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community