Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k and 802.11r in BYOD

[Tony Skalski]

>This says that OS X has supported 802.11r starting with Mavericks 10.9.

Ha! I even double-checked on Apple's site to see if this had changed
recently. I guess they're too busy to let people know (or they don't care
so much about OS X these days).

ajs

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Bruce Curtis  wrote:

>
> > On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Tony Skalski  wrote:
> >
> >
> > We've had 802.11k enabled for a few years. The only issue we've had was
> with some Intel wireless chipsets. To work around this we disabled the
> Quiet Information Element which appears in beacons and probes as part of
> 802.11k. If you search for Intel and Quiet Information Element you can find
> lots more info.
>
> We have had 802.11k enabled for months rather than years.  Had to disable
> 802.11k "Assisted Roaming Prediction Optimization” on our Cisco wireless
> since it appeared to cause lots of drops for clients.
>
> We still have 802.11k "Neighbor List Dual Band” enabled
>
> >
> > We've never enabled 802.11r, because it is not supported by OS X. It is
> supported on iOS but not sure about other OSes.
>
>
> This says that OS X has supported 802.11r starting with Mavericks 10.9.
>
>
> http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/technotes/8-2/b_Enterprise_Best_Practices_for_Apple_Devices_on_Cisco_Wireless_LAN.pdf
>
>
> I think the showstopper is Microsoft devices.
>
> "Not all Windows 10 devices support 802.11k, 802.11v, and 802.11r.”
>
>
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/mt484190(v=vs.85).aspx
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Environment: about 5,000 daily associations, close to 4,000 of which are
> BYOD.
> >
> > ajs
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Voelker, Andy 
> wrote:
> > I’m sure this question gets recycled occasionally, but I wanted to check
> in on everyone’s experience with these two protocols in a very BYOD
> environment.  I just became a WLAN admin in August and I’m finally to the
> point where I can tweak some finer details of the network.  We have 1600
> residential students that bring all kinds of devices.  I’m particularly
> interested in 802.11k since it has been out for a while and I think device
> compatibility or at least tolerance is pretty good.  What about 802.11r?
> >
> >
> >
> > I appreciate your thoughts.
> >
> >
> >
> > ​
> >
> > Andy Voelker
> >
> > Network Technician/Wireless LAN Manager
> >
> > Davidson College
> >
> >
> >
> > ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tony Skalski
> > Systems Administrator
> > a...@stolaf.edu
> > 507-786-3227
> > St. Olaf College
> > Information Technology
> > 1510 St. Olaf Avenue
> > Northfield, MN55057-1097
> >
> > ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> >
>
> ---
> Bruce Curtis bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
> Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
> North Dakota State University
>
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>


-- 
Tony Skalski
Systems Administrator
a...@stolaf.edu
507-786-3227
St. Olaf College
Information Technology
1510 St. Olaf Avenue
Northfield, MN55057-1097

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k and 802.11r in BYOD

[Bruce Curtis]

> On Apr 20, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Tony Skalski  wrote:
> 
> 
> We've had 802.11k enabled for a few years. The only issue we've had was with 
> some Intel wireless chipsets. To work around this we disabled the Quiet 
> Information Element which appears in beacons and probes as part of 802.11k. 
> If you search for Intel and Quiet Information Element you can find lots more 
> info.

We have had 802.11k enabled for months rather than years.  Had to disable 
802.11k "Assisted Roaming Prediction Optimization” on our Cisco wireless since 
it appeared to cause lots of drops for clients.  

We still have 802.11k "Neighbor List Dual Band” enabled

> 
> We've never enabled 802.11r, because it is not supported by OS X. It is 
> supported on iOS but not sure about other OSes.


This says that OS X has supported 802.11r starting with Mavericks 10.9.

http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/technotes/8-2/b_Enterprise_Best_Practices_for_Apple_Devices_on_Cisco_Wireless_LAN.pdf


I think the showstopper is Microsoft devices.

"Not all Windows 10 devices support 802.11k, 802.11v, and 802.11r.”

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/mt484190(v=vs.85).aspx




> 
> Environment: about 5,000 daily associations, close to 4,000 of which are BYOD.
> 
> ajs
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Voelker, Andy  wrote:
> I’m sure this question gets recycled occasionally, but I wanted to check in 
> on everyone’s experience with these two protocols in a very BYOD environment. 
>  I just became a WLAN admin in August and I’m finally to the point where I 
> can tweak some finer details of the network.  We have 1600 residential 
> students that bring all kinds of devices.  I’m particularly interested in 
> 802.11k since it has been out for a while and I think device compatibility or 
> at least tolerance is pretty good.  What about 802.11r?
> 
>  
> 
> I appreciate your thoughts. 
> 
>  
> 
> ​
> 
> Andy Voelker
> 
> Network Technician/Wireless LAN Manager
> 
> Davidson College
> 
>  
> 
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tony Skalski
> Systems Administrator
> a...@stolaf.edu
> 507-786-3227
> St. Olaf College
> Information Technology
> 1510 St. Olaf Avenue
> Northfield, MN55057-1097
> 
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 

---
Bruce Curtis bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
North Dakota State University


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k and 802.11r in BYOD

[Tony Skalski]

We've had 802.11k enabled for a few years. The only issue we've had was
with some Intel wireless chipsets. To work around this we disabled the
Quiet Information Element which appears in beacons and probes as part of
802.11k. If you search for Intel and Quiet Information Element you can find
lots more info.

We've never enabled 802.11r, because it is not supported by OS X. It is
supported on iOS but not sure about other OSes.

Environment: about 5,000 daily associations, close to 4,000 of which are
BYOD.

ajs



On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Voelker, Andy 
wrote:

> I’m sure this question gets recycled occasionally, but I wanted to check
> in on everyone’s experience with these two protocols in a very BYOD
> environment.  I just became a WLAN admin in August and I’m finally to the
> point where I can tweak some finer details of the network.  We have 1600
> residential students that bring all kinds of devices.  I’m particularly
> interested in 802.11k since it has been out for a while and I think device
> compatibility or at least tolerance is pretty good.  What about 802.11r?
>
>
>
> I appreciate your thoughts.
>
>
>
> ​
>
> Andy Voelker
>
> Network Technician/Wireless LAN Manager
>
> Davidson College
>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>


-- 
Tony Skalski
Systems Administrator
a...@stolaf.edu
507-786-3227
St. Olaf College
Information Technology
1510 St. Olaf Avenue
Northfield, MN55057-1097

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

[Frank Bulk (iname.com)]

Note the distance between RIM's headquarters and Dennis's work.  =)

Frank

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:15 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

You have a lot of Z10s? A recent article described Blackberry as deader than 
paisley flares. I don't think I've even seen *one*. 

--
ian

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dennis Xu
Sent: 20 November 2013 14:57
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

We have implemented it on all production WLANs for one month. There is only one 
issue: BlackBerry Z10 cannot connect to our 802.1X secure wlan, but it can 
connect to the open wlan. I tested in my lab and confirmed that Z10 can connect 
to the secure wlan without 802.11k. We are considering roll back this change. 

---
Dennis Xu
Analyst 3, Network Infrastructure
Computing and Communications Services(CCS) University of Guelph

519-824-4120 Ext 56217
d...@uoguelph.ca
www.uoguelph.ca/ccs

- Original Message -
From: Alan Nord an...@macalester.edu
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:22:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k


Looked into enabling this after a recent upgrade, but there is one major hurdle 
for my environment: This feature must be implemented only if you are using one 
controller. The assisted roaming feature is not supported across multiple 
controllers. See here for more detail. 



On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mike Albano  mike.alb...@unlv.edu  wrote: 


Curious if others have enabled 802.11k and if doing so has resulted in any 
client connectivity issues for clients that do not support it. Also, for the 
Cisco shops, the same question for non-802.11k assisted roamingie config 
wlan assisted-roaming prediction {enable | disable} wlan-id 


Mike Albano 
Network Engineer 
UNLV 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . 





-- 

Alan Nord, CCNA 
Infrastructure Manager 
Information Technology Services 
Macalester College 
1600 Grand Avenue 
St. Paul, MN 55105 ** Participation and subscription information for 
this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

[Alan Nord]

Looked into enabling this after a recent upgrade, but there is one major
hurdle for my environment: This feature must be implemented only if you
are using one controller.  The assisted roaming feature is not supported
across multiple controllers.  See
herehttp://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/controller/7.4/configuration/guides/consolidated/b_cg74_CONSOLIDATED_chapter_01100111.htmlfor
more detail.


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mike Albano mike.alb...@unlv.edu wrote:

 Curious if others have enabled 802.11k and if doing so has resulted in any
 client connectivity issues for clients that do not support it. Also, for
 the Cisco shops, the same question for non-802.11k assisted roamingie
 config wlan assisted-roaming prediction {enable | disable} wlan-id

 Mike Albano
 Network Engineer
 UNLV

 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
 Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
 http://www.educause.edu/groups/.




-- 
Alan Nord, CCNA
Infrastructure Manager
Information Technology Services
Macalester College
1600 Grand Avenue
St. Paul, MN 55105

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

[Dennis Xu]

We have implemented it on all production WLANs for one month. There is only one 
issue: BlackBerry Z10 cannot connect to our 802.1X secure wlan, but it can 
connect to the open wlan. I tested in my lab and confirmed that Z10 can connect 
to the secure wlan without 802.11k. We are considering roll back this change. 

---
Dennis Xu
Analyst 3, Network Infrastructure
Computing and Communications Services(CCS)
University of Guelph

519-824-4120 Ext 56217
d...@uoguelph.ca 
www.uoguelph.ca/ccs

- Original Message -
From: Alan Nord an...@macalester.edu
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:22:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k


Looked into enabling this after a recent upgrade, but there is one major hurdle 
for my environment: This feature must be implemented only if you are using one 
controller. The assisted roaming feature is not supported across multiple 
controllers. See here for more detail. 



On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mike Albano  mike.alb...@unlv.edu  wrote: 


Curious if others have enabled 802.11k and if doing so has resulted in any 
client connectivity issues for clients that do not support it. Also, for the 
Cisco shops, the same question for non-802.11k assisted roamingie 
config wlan assisted-roaming prediction {enable | disable} wlan-id 


Mike Albano 
Network Engineer 
UNLV 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . 





-- 

Alan Nord, CCNA 
Infrastructure Manager 
Information Technology Services 
Macalester College 
1600 Grand Avenue 
St. Paul, MN 55105 ** Participation and subscription information for 
this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

[Jennifer Francis Wilson]

FYI We're seeing 142 Blackberrys on our Wireless Networks. This is exactly 1% 
of the Wireless devices on our networks and compares to 51.55% which are Apple 
devices.
(Using an updated OUI VendorMacs.xml list on Cisco PI 1.3 from 
http://www.macvendorlookup.com/)

Regards,
Jen. 

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian McDonald
Sent: 20 November 2013 15:15
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

You have a lot of Z10s? A recent article described Blackberry as deader than 
paisley flares. I don't think I've even seen *one*. 

--
ian

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Dennis Xu
Sent: 20 November 2013 14:57
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

We have implemented it on all production WLANs for one month. There is only one 
issue: BlackBerry Z10 cannot connect to our 802.1X secure wlan, but it can 
connect to the open wlan. I tested in my lab and confirmed that Z10 can connect 
to the secure wlan without 802.11k. We are considering roll back this change. 

---
Dennis Xu
Analyst 3, Network Infrastructure
Computing and Communications Services(CCS) University of Guelph

519-824-4120 Ext 56217
d...@uoguelph.ca
www.uoguelph.ca/ccs

- Original Message -
From: Alan Nord an...@macalester.edu
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:22:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k


Looked into enabling this after a recent upgrade, but there is one major hurdle 
for my environment: This feature must be implemented only if you are using one 
controller. The assisted roaming feature is not supported across multiple 
controllers. See here for more detail. 



On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mike Albano  mike.alb...@unlv.edu  wrote: 


Curious if others have enabled 802.11k and if doing so has resulted in any 
client connectivity issues for clients that do not support it. Also, for the 
Cisco shops, the same question for non-802.11k assisted roamingie config 
wlan assisted-roaming prediction {enable | disable} wlan-id 


Mike Albano 
Network Engineer 
UNLV 

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/ . 





-- 

Alan Nord, CCNA 
Infrastructure Manager 
Information Technology Services 
Macalester College 
1600 Grand Avenue 
St. Paul, MN 55105 ** Participation and subscription information for 
this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/. 

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11k

[Curtis, Bruce]

On Nov 19, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Mike Albano mike.alb...@unlv.edu wrote:

 Curious if others have enabled 802.11k and if doing so has resulted in any 
 client connectivity issues for clients that do not support it. Also, for the 
 Cisco shops, the same question for non-802.11k assisted roamingie 
 config wlan assisted-roaming prediction {enable | disable} wlan-id
 
 Mike Albano
 Network Engineer
 UNLV

  We enabled 802.11k in September and haven’t run into any problems that we can 
attribute to 802.11k.


Begin forwarded message:

 From: Curtis, Bruce bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
 Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Favorite wireless tweaks?
 Date: September 20, 2013 at 9:54:07 PM CDT
 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
 Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
 WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
 
 On Sep 18, 2013, at 5:55 AM, Mike King m...@mpking.com wrote:
 
 Bruce, 
 Did you guys go all the way and enable 802.11r as well?  (Make - before - 
 break roaming)
 
  No.  Given the warnings in the document we decided to not enable 802.11r 
 yet, especially not during the chaos during the beginning of the semester.
 
 If you did, did you have any older device's not tolerate the changes to the 
 TLV's?
 
  We didn't want to create extra SSIDs and confuse people.  If others find 
 that the older devices tolerate the changes we could try enabling 802.11r 
 some summer.
 
 Mike
 
---
Bruce Curtis bruce.cur...@ndsu.edu
Certified NetAnalyst II701-231-8527
North Dakota State University

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.