RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Enfield, Chuck]

That's definitely true, but unless you have pervasive outdoor coverage you have 
to account for that on your indoor APs anyway.  Careful AP placement and 
trimming the low data rates on the indoor APs cuts way down on that problem.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Julian Y Koh
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 2:06 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

I can't remember all the technical nitty-gritty details, and things may have 
changed in the past few years since, but when we were using NetInsight to help 
us plan out where our highest priority areas were for outdoor Wi-Fi, someone 
from Aruba told us that adding outdoor APs and making sure that your regular 
indoor SSIDs were set up on those APs would in many cases lead to better 
performance for people indoors.  This was (IIRC) because people walking by the 
outside of a building would try to associate to the indoor APs on your regular 
SSIDs and because the signal is marginal, overall AP performance suffers.  By 
giving the outdoor transient folks a better connection pathway, the indoor APs 
benefit.

-Julian


On Mar 4, 2021, at 12:02, Enfield, Chuck 
mailto:cae...@psu.edu>> wrote:

Hi Mike,

The problem you describe comes up regularly with requests for outdoor coverage. 
 Indoor capacity is not limitless, but, in general, it's much easier to add 
indoor capacity than outdoor.  If coverage is for casual use and best effort is 
acceptable (In other words, some coverage is better than no coverage) then no 
problem.  If, as is true in your case, there's a critical application that must 
be supported, then I take one of two positions:


  1.  If the expectation is that we must support both the critical app and 
provide wireless for general use, we don't do it.  We have network improvements 
we'd like to make but can't because of insufficient time and money, so we 
should not undertake a project if we can't be reasonably confident of success.
  2.  We'll support the critical app but won't provide SSID's for general use.

Our preference is to support all our SSID's anywhere it's reasonable to do so, 
and there are very few places we don't do that.  Unfortunately, sometimes it's 
not reasonable to do everything.  In all but the most mission-critical cases, 
that means we don't do anything.

Chuck Enfield
Manager, Wireless & Cellular
Penn State IT
814-863-8715

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Michael Dickson
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

I'm wondering what folks think about adding eduroam (.1x) and guest SSIDs to 
outdoor deployments where AP device capacity would be severely undersubscribed. 
Would support for only a fraction of user devices during an event be more of a 
problem or a solution from a user experience perspective?

We're looking at expanding outdoor coverage near our athletic arenas. Design is 
primarily for vending and ticket scanners, etc. Special SSIDs will be used. 
Density coverage for all attendees is not in the spec. These areas are located 
beyond roaming distance from the main campus. I can think of both pros and cons 
for including these campus SSIDs but wonder what others think.

Thanks,
Mike



Michael Dickson

Network Engineer

Information Technology

University of Massachusetts Amherst

413-545-9639

michael.dick...@umass.edu<mailto:michael.dick...@umass.edu>

PGP: 0x16777D39
On 2/19/21 9:17 PM, Rios, Hector J wrote:
Similar to others, we also broadcast our main SSIDs outdoors. I think it is the 
best design. It keeps things consistent. To Lawson's point, seamless mobility 
could be a challenge. Depending on the size of your campus and your network, 
you might be able to have a large subnet. But for those that are unable to do 
that, then your outdoor Wi-Fi design becomes even more important. You have to 
find ways to break your campus into zones that make sense, from a roaming 
perspective. Also, some outdoor Wi-Fi deployments tend to be focused on 
coverage only, but with COVID a lot of us are finding out that we also need to 
focus on density. An outdoor AP can cover large areas, but that also means more 
clients can connect to it. And the more you try to cover the higher the 
potential for your Wi-Fi performance to suffer.

Hector Rios, Wireless Network Architect
The University of Texas at Austin | ITS

**
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list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Julian Y Koh]

I can’t remember all the technical nitty-gritty details, and things may have 
changed in the past few years since, but when we were using NetInsight to help 
us plan out where our highest priority areas were for outdoor Wi-Fi, someone 
from Aruba told us that adding outdoor APs and making sure that your regular 
indoor SSIDs were set up on those APs would in many cases lead to better 
performance for people indoors.  This was (IIRC) because people walking by the 
outside of a building would try to associate to the indoor APs on your regular 
SSIDs and because the signal is marginal, overall AP performance suffers.  By 
giving the outdoor transient folks a better connection pathway, the indoor APs 
benefit.

-Julian

On Mar 4, 2021, at 12:02, Enfield, Chuck 
mailto:cae...@psu.edu>> wrote:

Hi Mike,

The problem you describe comes up regularly with requests for outdoor coverage. 
 Indoor capacity is not limitless, but, in general, it’s much easier to add 
indoor capacity than outdoor.  If coverage is for casual use and best effort is 
acceptable (In other words, some coverage is better than no coverage) then no 
problem.  If, as is true in your case, there’s a critical application that must 
be supported, then I take one of two positions:


  1.  If the expectation is that we must support both the critical app and 
provide wireless for general use, we don’t do it.  We have network improvements 
we’d like to make but can’t because of insufficient time and money, so we 
should not undertake a project if we can’t be reasonably confident of success.
  2.  We’ll support the critical app but won’t provide SSID’s for general use.


Our preference is to support all our SSID’s anywhere it’s reasonable to do so, 
and there are very few places we don’t do that.  Unfortunately, sometimes it’s 
not reasonable to do everything.  In all but the most mission-critical cases, 
that means we don’t do anything.

Chuck Enfield
Manager, Wireless & Cellular
Penn State IT
814-863-8715

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Michael Dickson
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 12:12 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

I'm wondering what folks think about adding eduroam (.1x) and guest SSIDs to 
outdoor deployments where AP device capacity would be severely undersubscribed. 
Would support for only a fraction of user devices during an event be more of a 
problem or a solution from a user experience perspective?

We're looking at expanding outdoor coverage near our athletic arenas. Design is 
primarily for vending and ticket scanners, etc. Special SSIDs will be used. 
Density coverage for all attendees is not in the spec. These areas are located 
beyond roaming distance from the main campus. I can think of both pros and cons 
for including these campus SSIDs but wonder what others think.

Thanks,
Mike


Michael Dickson

Network Engineer

Information Technology

University of Massachusetts Amherst

413-545-9639

michael.dick...@umass.edu<mailto:michael.dick...@umass.edu>

PGP: 0x16777D39

On 2/19/21 9:17 PM, Rios, Hector J wrote:
Similar to others, we also broadcast our main SSIDs outdoors. I think it is the 
best design. It keeps things consistent. To Lawson’s point, seamless mobility 
could be a challenge. Depending on the size of your campus and your network, 
you might be able to have a large subnet. But for those that are unable to do 
that, then your outdoor Wi-Fi design becomes even more important. You have to 
find ways to break your campus into zones that make sense, from a roaming 
perspective. Also, some outdoor Wi-Fi deployments tend to be focused on 
coverage only, but with COVID a lot of us are finding out that we also need to 
focus on density. An outdoor AP can cover large areas, but that also means more 
clients can connect to it. And the more you try to cover the higher the 
potential for your Wi-Fi performance to suffer.

Hector Rios, Wireless Network Architect
The University of Texas at Austin | ITS


**
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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Enfield, Chuck]

Hi Mike,

The problem you describe comes up regularly with requests for outdoor coverage. 
 Indoor capacity is not limitless, but, in general, it's much easier to add 
indoor capacity than outdoor.  If coverage is for casual use and best effort is 
acceptable (In other words, some coverage is better than no coverage) then no 
problem.  If, as is true in your case, there's a critical application that must 
be supported, then I take one of two positions:


  1.  If the expectation is that we must support both the critical app and 
provide wireless for general use, we don't do it.  We have network improvements 
we'd like to make but can't because of insufficient time and money, so we 
should not undertake a project if we can't be reasonably confident of success.
  2.  We'll support the critical app but won't provide SSID's for general use.

Our preference is to support all our SSID's anywhere it's reasonable to do so, 
and there are very few places we don't do that.  Unfortunately, sometimes it's 
not reasonable to do everything.  In all but the most mission-critical cases, 
that means we don't do anything.

Chuck Enfield
Manager, Wireless & Cellular
Penn State IT
814-863-8715

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Michael Dickson
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 12:12 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

I'm wondering what folks think about adding eduroam (.1x) and guest SSIDs to 
outdoor deployments where AP device capacity would be severely undersubscribed. 
Would support for only a fraction of user devices during an event be more of a 
problem or a solution from a user experience perspective?

We're looking at expanding outdoor coverage near our athletic arenas. Design is 
primarily for vending and ticket scanners, etc. Special SSIDs will be used. 
Density coverage for all attendees is not in the spec. These areas are located 
beyond roaming distance from the main campus. I can think of both pros and cons 
for including these campus SSIDs but wonder what others think.

Thanks,
Mike


Michael Dickson

Network Engineer

Information Technology

University of Massachusetts Amherst

413-545-9639

michael.dick...@umass.edu<mailto:michael.dick...@umass.edu>

PGP: 0x16777D39
On 2/19/21 9:17 PM, Rios, Hector J wrote:
Similar to others, we also broadcast our main SSIDs outdoors. I think it is the 
best design. It keeps things consistent. To Lawson's point, seamless mobility 
could be a challenge. Depending on the size of your campus and your network, 
you might be able to have a large subnet. But for those that are unable to do 
that, then your outdoor Wi-Fi design becomes even more important. You have to 
find ways to break your campus into zones that make sense, from a roaming 
perspective. Also, some outdoor Wi-Fi deployments tend to be focused on 
coverage only, but with COVID a lot of us are finding out that we also need to 
focus on density. An outdoor AP can cover large areas, but that also means more 
clients can connect to it. And the more you try to cover the higher the 
potential for your Wi-Fi performance to suffer.

Hector Rios, Wireless Network Architect
The University of Texas at Austin | ITS


**
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Seth Bean]

We broadcast our main SSIDs on our outside APs on campus, eduroam and our 
mac-registered WLAN.  It has not caused any issues, but it has helped with 
roaming and remote learning by opening up more locations for access to our 
network.  During our outdoor events (pre-COVID) the service was adequate, but 
our AP deployment has been expanded since with the recent addition of grant 
funding for security where we were able to install cameras in many locations 
and we piggybacked the wiring of the APs for that project and (finally!) 
deployed our outside 802.11ac APs around campus.  Extreme Network's external 
APs were designed well to handle numerous connections.
We have the same APs in a mesh configuration at our offsite Athletic venue, but 
due to a limited bandwidth and the need to prioritize security camera traffic 
and operations needs such as streaming the games and stats, we opted to not use 
our on-campus SSIDs.  The decision to not use those SSIDs was due to the cost 
and limit of the WAN connection, not the internal network's ability.   I think 
the decision comes down to what your network needs to do and if there is enough 
left over for other traffic.


Seth Bean
Administrator of Networks and Telecommunications
APA Union Chapter President
Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts
413.662.5022
413.663.1276

375 Church Street
North Adams,
MA 01247


“National Top Ten
Public Liberal Arts College”
2020-2021 US News & World Report

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Michael Dickson 

Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 12:12 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of MCLA. Do not click links or open 
attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

I'm wondering what folks think about adding eduroam (.1x) and guest SSIDs to 
outdoor deployments where AP device capacity would be severely undersubscribed. 
Would support for only a fraction of user devices during an event be more of a 
problem or a solution from a user experience perspective?

We're looking at expanding outdoor coverage near our athletic arenas. Design is 
primarily for vending and ticket scanners, etc. Special SSIDs will be used. 
Density coverage for all attendees is not in the spec. These areas are located 
beyond roaming distance from the main campus. I can think of both pros and cons 
for including these campus SSIDs but wonder what others think.

Thanks,
Mike

Michael Dickson
Network Engineer
Information Technology
University of Massachusetts Amherst
413-545-9639
michael.dick...@umass.edu<mailto:michael.dick...@umass.edu>
PGP: 0x16777D39

On 2/19/21 9:17 PM, Rios, Hector J wrote:

Similar to others, we also broadcast our main SSIDs outdoors. I think it is the 
best design. It keeps things consistent. To Lawson’s point, seamless mobility 
could be a challenge. Depending on the size of your campus and your network, 
you might be able to have a large subnet. But for those that are unable to do 
that, then your outdoor Wi-Fi design becomes even more important. You have to 
find ways to break your campus into zones that make sense, from a roaming 
perspective. Also, some outdoor Wi-Fi deployments tend to be focused on 
coverage only, but with COVID a lot of us are finding out that we also need to 
focus on density. An outdoor AP can cover large areas, but that also means more 
clients can connect to it. And the more you try to cover the higher the 
potential for your Wi-Fi performance to suffer.



Hector Rios, Wireless Network Architect

The University of Texas at Austin | ITS



**
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Michael Dickson]

I'm wondering what folks think about adding eduroam (.1x) and guest
SSIDs to outdoor deployments where AP device capacity would be severely
undersubscribed. Would support for only a fraction of user devices
during an event be more of a problem or a solution from a user
experience perspective?

We're looking at expanding outdoor coverage near our athletic arenas.
Design is primarily for vending and ticket scanners, etc. Special SSIDs
will be used. Density coverage for all attendees is not in the spec.
These areas are located beyond roaming distance from the main campus. I
can think of both pros and cons for including these campus SSIDs but
wonder what others think.

Thanks,
Mike

Michael Dickson
Network Engineer
Information Technology
University of Massachusetts Amherst
413-545-9639
michael.dick...@umass.edu
PGP: 0x16777D39

On 2/19/21 9:17 PM, Rios, Hector J wrote:
>
> Similar to others, we also broadcast our main SSIDs outdoors. I think
> it is the best design. It keeps things consistent. To Lawson’s point,
> seamless mobility could be a challenge. Depending on the size of your
> campus and your network, you might be able to have a large subnet. But
> for those that are unable to do that, then your outdoor Wi-Fi design
> becomes even more important. You have to find ways to break your
> campus into zones that make sense, from a roaming perspective. Also,
> some outdoor Wi-Fi deployments tend to be focused on coverage only,
> but with COVID a lot of us are finding out that we also need to focus
> on density. An outdoor AP can cover large areas, but that also means
> more clients can connect to it. And the more you try to cover the
> higher the potential for your Wi-Fi performance to suffer.  
>
>  
>
> Hector Rios, Wireless Network Architect
>
> The University of Texas at Austin| ITS
>
>  
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email
> reply. Additional participation and subscription information can be
> found at https://www.educause.edu/community
> 
>


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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Rios, Hector J]

Similar to others, we also broadcast our main SSIDs outdoors. I think it is the 
best design. It keeps things consistent. To Lawson’s point, seamless mobility 
could be a challenge. Depending on the size of your campus and your network, 
you might be able to have a large subnet. But for those that are unable to do 
that, then your outdoor Wi-Fi design becomes even more important. You have to 
find ways to break your campus into zones that make sense, from a roaming 
perspective. Also, some outdoor Wi-Fi deployments tend to be focused on 
coverage only, but with COVID a lot of us are finding out that we also need to 
focus on density. An outdoor AP can cover large areas, but that also means more 
clients can connect to it. And the more you try to cover the higher the 
potential for your Wi-Fi performance to suffer.

Hector Rios, Wireless Network Architect
The University of Texas at Austin | ITS


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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Johnston, Ryan]

I guess I should also add that our Guest network is not open registration.  You 
must be sponsored by fac/staff or be a part of an event/conference and be given 
a time-based code.  Our campuses are located in dense urban areas and would not 
be able to service the numbers of users looking for “free wifi”.

Ryan

--
Ryan Johnston he/him/his
Associate Director of Infrastructure
DePaul University
55 E Jackson Blvd | Chicago, Illinois 60604
https://www.depaul.edu<https://www.depaul.edu/> |  https://helpdesk.depaul.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Ricardo Stella
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 2:15 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?


We don't broadcast our Guest network outdoors except for special events. Last 
fall we had to add several access points because tents were being installed at 
the last minute for students and potential academic use.  We have older AP-275s 
but the ones added the last 2 years have been AP-365 or AP-367 depending on the 
model.  It also helped when Aruba was running the buy 3 get 2 free promos on 
these...

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:33 AM Johnston, Ryan 
mailto:ryan.johns...@depaul.edu>> wrote:
We broadcast the same SSID’s inside and outside as well.  Branded (onboarding 
and Generic Guest) and Eduroam (main dox1x and University guests).  Aruba AP 
36X units mostly with some standard AP315’s hidden in aesthetic bollards.

Ryan

--
Ryan Johnston he/him/his
Associate Director of Infrastructure
DePaul University
55 E Jackson Blvd | Chicago, Illinois 60604
https://www.depaul.edu<https://www.depaul.edu/> |  https://helpdesk.depaul.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Mike Atkins
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:53 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you broadcast 
the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy for why or why 
not?



TLDR:
Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the school 
year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of us.  We face 
the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs return on 
investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this year and get 
out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID campus with eduroam 
being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open unauthenticated Internet 
access only "guest" network. The question came up out of a discussion related 
to ensuring performance for faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces 
but my other concern is for our Information Security group.  An open guest 
network might be okay in a building where we can track your device down fairly 
quickly but outdoors might complicate this.  I think the campus user 
expectation is both SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around 
the block.


--




Mike Atkins
Infrastructure Architect
Office of Information Technology
University of Notre Dame
Phone: 574-631-7210



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--
°(((=((===°°°(((

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Ricardo Stella]

We don't broadcast our Guest network outdoors except for special events.
Last fall we had to add several access points because tents were being
installed at the last minute for students and potential academic use.  We
have older AP-275s but the ones added the last 2 years have been AP-365 or
AP-367 depending on the model.  It also helped when Aruba was running the
buy 3 get 2 free promos on these...

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:33 AM Johnston, Ryan 
wrote:

> We broadcast the same SSID’s inside and outside as well.  Branded
> (onboarding and Generic Guest) and Eduroam (main dox1x and University
> guests).  Aruba AP 36X units mostly with some standard AP315’s hidden in
> aesthetic bollards.
>
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Ryan Johnston* *he/him/his*
>
> Associate Director of Infrastructure
>
> DePaul University
>
> 55 E Jackson Blvd | Chicago, Illinois 60604
>
> https://www.depaul.edu |  https://helpdesk.depaul.edu
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Mike Atkins
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:53 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?
>
>
>
> For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you
> broadcast the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy
> for why or why not?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> TLDR:
>
> Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the
> school year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of
> us.  We face the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs
> return on investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this
> year and get out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID
> campus with eduroam being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open
> unauthenticated Internet access only "guest" network. The question came up
> out of a discussion related to ensuring performance for
> faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces but my other concern is
> for our Information Security group.  An open guest network might be okay in
> a building where we can track your device down fairly quickly but outdoors
> might complicate this.  I think the campus user expectation is both
> SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around the block.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Mike Atkins *
>
> Infrastructure Architect
>
> Office of Information Technology
>
> University of Notre Dame
>
> Phone: 574-631-7210
>
>
>
>
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/community
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/community
>


-- 
°(((=((===°°°(((

**
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RE: [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Johnston, Ryan]

We broadcast the same SSID’s inside and outside as well.  Branded (onboarding 
and Generic Guest) and Eduroam (main dox1x and University guests).  Aruba AP 
36X units mostly with some standard AP315’s hidden in aesthetic bollards.

Ryan

--
Ryan Johnston he/him/his
Associate Director of Infrastructure
DePaul University
55 E Jackson Blvd | Chicago, Illinois 60604
https://www.depaul.edu<https://www.depaul.edu/> |  https://helpdesk.depaul.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Mike Atkins
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:53 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [EXT] [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you broadcast 
the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy for why or why 
not?



TLDR:
Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the school 
year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of us.  We face 
the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs return on 
investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this year and get 
out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID campus with eduroam 
being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open unauthenticated Internet 
access only "guest" network. The question came up out of a discussion related 
to ensuring performance for faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces 
but my other concern is for our Information Security group.  An open guest 
network might be okay in a building where we can track your device down fairly 
quickly but outdoors might complicate this.  I think the campus user 
expectation is both SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around 
the block.


--




Mike Atkins
Infrastructure Architect
Office of Information Technology
University of Notre Dame
Phone: 574-631-7210



**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

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paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Coehoorn, Joel]

We don't have dedicated outdoor APs, but purposefully designed our indoor
coverage to be less-efficient than was needful, placing APs to deliberately
cover outdoor spaces near building entrances and common gathering areas via
bleed-through. It's worked well, but we're a small campus in place that
gets pretty cold for much of the school year. If we were larger, or had
more outdoor activities for more of the year, we might have done this
differently. We also only have a single .1x SSID and a single open guest
SSID. The .1x network spans several vlans, but vlan assignment is sticky to
the individual, so it's the same network for all their devices as they move
around campus.

Joel Coehoorn
Director of Information Technology
York College of Nebraska


On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 6:02 PM Michael Usher <
010ef28e43bf-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu> wrote:

> We broadcast the same SSIDs outdoors as indoors but we have different RF
> Profiles outdoors (allows lower data rates).
>
> For campus buildings, it's eduroam (our main service) plus Guest.
>
> For dorms, we have a ResWiFi and Guest.
>
> We keep eduroam and Guest in one IP range, but we do segment our Dorm
> networks by college area.
>
> One big reason for using the same SSID indoors / outdoors is to keep the
> outdoor clients separated so as not to burn airtime on indoor APs,
> degrading service for indoor users.
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 3:38 PM Richie Penuela 
> wrote:
>
>> Our standard WLANs in our University are secured network, guest, and
>> eduroam. We broadcast the same SSIDS both indoors and outdoors for the
>> mentioned reason of a seamless experience and there will be times that both
>> will bleed over the other. We have specific WLANs and SSIDs for outside
>> vendors since we wanted to segment those outside our secured/academic
>> network.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Respectfully,
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: signature_1584035786]*
>>
>> Wireless Network Architect
>>
>> *UCF **IT Telecommunications*
>>
>> University of Central Florida
>>
>> *richie.penu...@ucf.edu *
>>
>> *it.ucf.edu <http://it.ucf.edu>*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Please note:* Florida has a very broad open records law (F.S. 119).
>> Emails may be subject to public disclosure.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Mike Atkins <
>> matk...@nd.edu>
>> *Reply-To: *The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
>> *Date: *Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 5:54 PM
>> *To: *"WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" <
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
>> *Subject: *[WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?
>>
>>
>>
>> For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you
>> broadcast the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy
>> for why or why not?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> TLDR:
>>
>> Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the
>> school year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of
>> us.  We face the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs
>> return on investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this
>> year and get out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID
>> campus with eduroam being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open
>> unauthenticated Internet access only "guest" network. The question came up
>> out of a discussion related to ensuring performance for
>> faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces but my other concern is
>> for our Information Security group.  An open guest network might be okay in
>> a building where we can track your device down fairly quickly but outdoors
>> might complicate this.  I think the campus user expectation is both
>> SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around the block.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Mike Atkins *
>>
>> Infrastructure Architect
>>
>> Office of Information Technology
>>
>> University of Notre Dame
>>
>> Phone: 574-631-7210
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
>> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
>> message, copy and paste their email addres

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Michael Usher]

We broadcast the same SSIDs outdoors as indoors but we have different RF
Profiles outdoors (allows lower data rates).

For campus buildings, it's eduroam (our main service) plus Guest.

For dorms, we have a ResWiFi and Guest.

We keep eduroam and Guest in one IP range, but we do segment our Dorm
networks by college area.

One big reason for using the same SSID indoors / outdoors is to keep the
outdoor clients separated so as not to burn airtime on indoor APs,
degrading service for indoor users.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 3:38 PM Richie Penuela 
wrote:

> Our standard WLANs in our University are secured network, guest, and
> eduroam. We broadcast the same SSIDS both indoors and outdoors for the
> mentioned reason of a seamless experience and there will be times that both
> will bleed over the other. We have specific WLANs and SSIDs for outside
> vendors since we wanted to segment those outside our secured/academic
> network.
>
>
>
> -Respectfully,
>
>
>
> *[image: signature_1584035786]*
>
> Wireless Network Architect
>
> *UCF **IT Telecommunications*
>
> University of Central Florida
>
> *richie.penu...@ucf.edu *
>
> *it.ucf.edu <http://it.ucf.edu>*
>
>
>
> *Please note:* Florida has a very broad open records law (F.S. 119).
> Emails may be subject to public disclosure.
>
>
>
> *From: *The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Mike Atkins <
> matk...@nd.edu>
> *Reply-To: *The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> *Date: *Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 5:54 PM
> *To: *"WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> *Subject: *[WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?
>
>
>
> For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you
> broadcast the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy
> for why or why not?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> TLDR:
>
> Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the
> school year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of
> us.  We face the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs
> return on investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this
> year and get out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID
> campus with eduroam being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open
> unauthenticated Internet access only "guest" network. The question came up
> out of a discussion related to ensuring performance for
> faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces but my other concern is
> for our Information Security group.  An open guest network might be okay in
> a building where we can track your device down fairly quickly but outdoors
> might complicate this.  I think the campus user expectation is both
> SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around the block.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Mike Atkins *
>
> Infrastructure Architect
>
> Office of Information Technology
>
> University of Notre Dame
>
> Phone: 574-631-7210
>
>
>
>
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/community
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fcommunity=04%7C01%7Crichie.penuela%40UCF.EDU%7C06c2f9f8379642ed1cd008d8d46016b4%7Cbb932f15ef3842ba91fcf3c59d5dd1f1%7C0%7C1%7C637492856453168130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=lDwC%2F6VFbSKfBFMBEJGoUv9UJmvu5lzKBL0BHTAq2F4%3D=0>
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/community
>


-- 
Michael Usher
Interim Network Operations Manager
Senior Wireless Network Engineer
University of California, Santa Cruz
mus...@ucsc.edu831-459-3697

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
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paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Richie Penuela]

Our standard WLANs in our University are secured network, guest, and eduroam. 
We broadcast the same SSIDS both indoors and outdoors for the mentioned reason 
of a seamless experience and there will be times that both will bleed over the 
other. We have specific WLANs and SSIDs for outside vendors since we wanted to 
segment those outside our secured/academic network.

-Respectfully,

[signature_1584035786]
Wireless Network Architect
UCF IT Telecommunications
University of Central Florida
richie.penu...@ucf.edu
it.ucf.edu

Please note: Florida has a very broad open records law (F.S. 119). Emails may 
be subject to public disclosure.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Mike Atkins 
Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 

Date: Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 5:54 PM
To: "WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you broadcast 
the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy for why or why 
not?



TLDR:
Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the school 
year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of us.  We face 
the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs return on 
investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this year and get 
out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID campus with eduroam 
being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open unauthenticated Internet 
access only "guest" network. The question came up out of a discussion related 
to ensuring performance for faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces 
but my other concern is for our Information Security group.  An open guest 
network might be okay in a building where we can track your device down fairly 
quickly but outdoors might complicate this.  I think the campus user 
expectation is both SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around 
the block.


--




Mike Atkins
Infrastructure Architect
Office of Information Technology
University of Notre Dame
Phone: 574-631-7210



**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at 
https://www.educause.edu/community<https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fcommunity=04%7C01%7Crichie.penuela%40UCF.EDU%7C06c2f9f8379642ed1cd008d8d46016b4%7Cbb932f15ef3842ba91fcf3c59d5dd1f1%7C0%7C1%7C637492856453168130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=lDwC%2F6VFbSKfBFMBEJGoUv9UJmvu5lzKBL0BHTAq2F4%3D=0>

**
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and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Cody Ensanian]

We broadcast the same SSID inside and outside (our branded secure dot1x 
network, our guest network, and eduroam). (we might start having talks about 
just moving to eduroam for our main dot1x network).

We wanted roaming to be as seamless as possible for end users, and didn't want 
to add confusion by adding new SSIDs to our campus.
Plus as Lawson mentioned, you get your indoor SSIDs bleeding outside anyway.

We did a big project almost 2 years ago now installing 40 new outdoor APs 
across campus... mostly along our main pedestrian spine and in some quad and 
green spaces that get high use. It was a mix of building-mount, pole mount, and 
we did some bollards too. Some were direct runs of cat6 into the buildings, 
others required powered fiber. Depending on quantity, it can be a pretty 
involved project.

I have some public resources of our project posted, feel free to check them out 
and reach out with any questions.
https://wireless.uccs.edu/wireless-projects/outdoorwireless-project
https://kb.uccs.edu/display/OIT/Outdoor+Wireless+Phase+1

We're also getting more demand for wireless at our outdoor athletic venues (for 
fans, teams, ticket scanners, our media team, etc.)

Cody
UCCS


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Glinsky, Eric
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:17 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

We broadcast the usual 3 SSIDs (branded, guest, eduroam) in the few locations 
we have outdoor WiFi for general use. We've also started setting up outdoor APs 
for athletic venues for ticket scanners. In one area, we added the ticket 
scanning SSID to the others. In other, predictably more crowded areas, like 
ticket booths adjacent to outdoor bleachers, we've been dedicating one AP to 
ticket scanning.

Eric Glinsky
Network Administrator
University of Connecticut
ITS - Network Operations
Temporary Administration Building
25 Gampel Service Drive | Storrs, CT 06269-1138
(860) 486-9199
e...@uconn.edu<mailto:e...@uconn.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Mike Atkins mailto:matk...@nd.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 5:53:25 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*

For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you broadcast 
the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy for why or why 
not?



TLDR:
Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the school 
year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of us.  We face 
the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs return on 
investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this year and get 
out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID campus with eduroam 
being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open unauthenticated Internet 
access only "guest" network. The question came up out of a discussion related 
to ensuring performance for faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces 
but my other concern is for our Information Security group.  An open guest 
network might be okay in a building where we can track your device down fairly 
quickly but outdoors might complicate this.  I think the campus user 
expectation is both SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around 
the block.


--









Mike Atkins

Infrastructure Architect

Office of Information Technology

University of Notre Dame

Phone: 574-631-7210





**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at 
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**
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paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
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**
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list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, c

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Glinsky, Eric]

We broadcast the usual 3 SSIDs (branded, guest, eduroam) in the few locations 
we have outdoor WiFi for general use. We’ve also started setting up outdoor APs 
for athletic venues for ticket scanners. In one area, we added the ticket 
scanning SSID to the others. In other, predictably more crowded areas, like 
ticket booths adjacent to outdoor bleachers, we’ve been dedicating one AP to 
ticket scanning.

Eric Glinsky
Network Administrator
University of Connecticut
ITS – Network Operations
Temporary Administration Building
25 Gampel Service Drive | Storrs, CT 06269-1138
(860) 486-9199
e...@uconn.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Mike Atkins 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 5:53:25 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?


*Message sent from a system outside of UConn.*


For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you broadcast 
the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy for why or why 
not?



TLDR:
Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the school 
year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of us.  We face 
the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs return on 
investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this year and get 
out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID campus with eduroam 
being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open unauthenticated Internet 
access only "guest" network. The question came up out of a discussion related 
to ensuring performance for faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces 
but my other concern is for our Information Security group.  An open guest 
network might be okay in a building where we can track your device down fairly 
quickly but outdoors might complicate this.  I think the campus user 
expectation is both SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around 
the block.


--








Mike Atkins

Infrastructure Architect

Office of Information Technology

University of Notre Dame

Phone: 574-631-7210





**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[Cassels, Lawson]

Yes, we have the same SSIDs on both indoor and outdoor APs. We do phone number 
verification for our guest accounts (legal said we must) and it only provides 
limited WAN access. Besides, most buildings radiate enough RF that you can 
connect through a window or wall without having to enter the building.

You will probably want to ensure that your primary SSID has just one subnet and 
gateway. Before we had outdoor hardware (2010ish), we could get away with 
different wireless subnets in different buildings because most clients would 
disconnect between buildings and get the new gateway/DHCP lease when they enter 
the next building. With outdoor hardware, the client retains that connection 
when walking between buildings and can be without network access until the DHCP 
lease expires or they do something else to acquire the new gateway info.

We use the Aruba 270 and 360 series for outdoor access and have been extremely 
happy with the performance of those units. They vastly exceed the performance 
we've gotten from externally mounted antennas.

Lawson Cassels
Illinois State University

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Mike Atkins 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:53 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Outdoor WLANs?

[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to 
ab...@ilstu.edu<mailto:ab...@ilstu.edu>]
For those of you running outdoor Wi-Fi covering public space, do you broadcast 
the same WLANs as in building?  Do you have a specific strategy for why or why 
not?



TLDR:
Being a Northern Indiana campus, the demand for outdoor Wi-Fi during the school 
year has been fairly low.  Last year has changed this for all of us.  We face 
the same challenges as everyone else with cost/aesthetics vs return on 
investment.  We are looking to provide some legit coverage this year and get 
out of the "temporary" outdoor setups.  We are a two SSID campus with eduroam 
being our dot1X secure network and ND-guest being open unauthenticated Internet 
access only "guest" network. The question came up out of a discussion related 
to ensuring performance for faculty/staff/students in the public outdoor spaces 
but my other concern is for our Information Security group.  An open guest 
network might be okay in a building where we can track your device down fairly 
quickly but outdoors might complicate this.  I think the campus user 
expectation is both SSID's everywhere.  Trying to get some thoughts from around 
the block.


--








Mike Atkins

Infrastructure Architect

Office of Information Technology

University of Notre Dame

Phone: 574-631-7210





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