Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi's impact?

[Sullivan, Ryan]

We have several 802.15.4 wireless door lock installations across campus and 
have not noticed interference with our campus WiFi. We were lucky enough to 
work with our customers and the vendor to document where the installations were 
specifically and I believe the vendor stated they were only using channels 
23-25. It is important to remember that 802.11 and 802.15.4 both have channel 
numbers but since the width is different, the channels do not match up. A 
decent doc from Metageek sums the issue up nicely if you want to copy and paste 
it.

https://support.metageek.com/hc/en-us/articles/203845040-ZigBee-and-WiFi-Coexistence

Hope this helps,

Ryan Sullivan
Datacommunications
ITS, UCSD




On Mar 23, 2017, at 9:16 AM, Brian Helman 
<bhel...@salemstate.edu<mailto:bhel...@salemstate.edu>> wrote:

I agree with Mike.  Whenever I’m presented with another “do xx over wifi 
because it’s more convenient” I usually let them know I cannot guarantee that 
my wifi .. which is a requirement for and by the students .. will not interfere 
with their installation.  If they are ok with that, then go ahead.  I’d also be 
concerned about using a consumer-based home automation technology in an 
enterprise environment.  Was X10 not available ;)?

My personal opinion remains .. if it isn’t going to move, it shouldn’t be 
wireless.

All of that being said, maybe this is your opportunity to get more funding to 
move WiFi to 5GHz and leave 2.4 for IoT junk?

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]On Behalf Of Mike Atkins
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:35 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or 
Wi-Fi's impact?

I would be concerned about your campus WiFi overrunning the ZigBee operation.  
We have a similar situation with ZigBee probes used to monitor freezer 
temperatures.  Campus WiFi is not heavily used in the kitchen areas so no 
issues to note for either side.



Mike Atkins
Network Engineer
Office of Information Technology
University of Notre Dame

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]On
 Behalf Of Williams, Jess
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:07 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi's 
impact?

Our campus Facilities department is looking at a wireless lighting control 
system that uses a "Zigbee based" 2.4GHz wireless protocol.  An example use 
case for this system is a parking garage that has 86 lights which are connected 
using a mesh network, however I can see it spreading indoors at some point down 
the road.  At a minimum, I know this will raise the noise floor.  Does anyone 
have any experience with a similar situation/technology that can share how this 
impacts your campus Wi-Fi or how Wi-Fi has impacted the lighting control 
system, etc?

The product is AcuityControls XPoint Wireless lighting controls
http://www.acuitybrands.com/products/controls/xpoint-wireless#e8f40e39-86a8-4d2e-9072-e8b872bce11b


I'm told by the manufacturer that the default channel used is Zigbee Channel 
15, which is 2.425 MHz (5MHz total channel width).  The channel can be changed.

Vendor says:
"XPoint Wireless Mesh operate a low duty cycle, narrow band (5 MHz wide) 
communications at up to +18 dBm output power, whereas 2.4 GHz Wifi operates at 
a high duty cycle, wideband communications (typical 20 to 60 MHz wide) 
typically at up to +23 dBm (that’s log scale so that’s a 5 dB difference which 
is actually over 3x as powerful as our system). I’ve never once seen a 
confirmed case where our Zigbee based mesh network interfered with their Wifi." 
 They promise it won't interfere with Wi-Fi.

I'd be more comfortable with something that uses 900MHz instead of 2.4GHz.

Vendor documentation:
XPoint Wireless uses a low duty cycle, narrow‐band, Zigbee®‐based 2.4 GHz 
wireless protocol that is not
known to interfere with your 2.4 GHz WiFi or other systems. The low 
communication duty cycle,
combined with clear‐to‐send backoff capability from the IEEE802.15.4 radio, 
typically does not produce
measurable impact to WiFi performance and is usually difficult to observe in an 
RF spectrum analyzer.
Each XPoint Wireless Bridge and associated mesh network (typically up to 250 
wireless devices) can also
be programmed to use a specific Zigbee RF channel to avoid co‐channel 
interference with other installed 2.4 GHz equipment. Zigbee channels 11‐26, 
corresponding with 5 MHz‐wide frequency bands from
2.405 GHz to 2.480 GHz may be assigned to specific wireless mesh networks.

The wireless communication is secured and encrypted using AES 128‐bit 
encryption. The network

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi's impact?

[Brian Helman]

I agree with Mike.  Whenever I’m presented with another “do xx over wifi 
because it’s more convenient” I usually let them know I cannot guarantee that 
my wifi .. which is a requirement for and by the students .. will not interfere 
with their installation.  If they are ok with that, then go ahead.  I’d also be 
concerned about using a consumer-based home automation technology in an 
enterprise environment.  Was X10 not available ;)?

My personal opinion remains .. if it isn’t going to move, it shouldn’t be 
wireless.

All of that being said, maybe this is your opportunity to get more funding to 
move WiFi to 5GHz and leave 2.4 for IoT junk?

-Brian

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Atkins
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:35 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or 
Wi-Fi's impact?

I would be concerned about your campus WiFi overrunning the ZigBee operation.  
We have a similar situation with ZigBee probes used to monitor freezer 
temperatures.  Campus WiFi is not heavily used in the kitchen areas so no 
issues to note for either side.



Mike Atkins
Network Engineer
Office of Information Technology
University of Notre Dame

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Williams, Jess
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:07 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi's 
impact?

Our campus Facilities department is looking at a wireless lighting control 
system that uses a "Zigbee based" 2.4GHz wireless protocol.  An example use 
case for this system is a parking garage that has 86 lights which are connected 
using a mesh network, however I can see it spreading indoors at some point down 
the road.  At a minimum, I know this will raise the noise floor.  Does anyone 
have any experience with a similar situation/technology that can share how this 
impacts your campus Wi-Fi or how Wi-Fi has impacted the lighting control 
system, etc?

The product is AcuityControls XPoint Wireless lighting controls
http://www.acuitybrands.com/products/controls/xpoint-wireless#e8f40e39-86a8-4d2e-9072-e8b872bce11b


I'm told by the manufacturer that the default channel used is Zigbee Channel 
15, which is 2.425 MHz (5MHz total channel width).  The channel can be changed.

Vendor says:
"XPoint Wireless Mesh operate a low duty cycle, narrow band (5 MHz wide) 
communications at up to +18 dBm output power, whereas 2.4 GHz Wifi operates at 
a high duty cycle, wideband communications (typical 20 to 60 MHz wide) 
typically at up to +23 dBm (that’s log scale so that’s a 5 dB difference which 
is actually over 3x as powerful as our system). I’ve never once seen a 
confirmed case where our Zigbee based mesh network interfered with their Wifi." 
 They promise it won't interfere with Wi-Fi.

I'd be more comfortable with something that uses 900MHz instead of 2.4GHz.

Vendor documentation:
XPoint Wireless uses a low duty cycle, narrow‐band, Zigbee®‐based 2.4 GHz 
wireless protocol that is not
known to interfere with your 2.4 GHz WiFi or other systems. The low 
communication duty cycle,
combined with clear‐to‐send backoff capability from the IEEE802.15.4 radio, 
typically does not produce
measurable impact to WiFi performance and is usually difficult to observe in an 
RF spectrum analyzer.
Each XPoint Wireless Bridge and associated mesh network (typically up to 250 
wireless devices) can also
be programmed to use a specific Zigbee RF channel to avoid co‐channel 
interference with other installed 2.4 GHz equipment. Zigbee channels 11‐26, 
corresponding with 5 MHz‐wide frequency bands from
2.405 GHz to 2.480 GHz may be assigned to specific wireless mesh networks.

The wireless communication is secured and encrypted using AES 128‐bit 
encryption. The network
protocol includes “replay” protection, where each wireless message is uniquely 
encoded such that it
cannot be recorded and replayed at a later time.

Maximum RF power output is +18 dBm for Zigbee Channels 11‐25, 0 dBm for Channel 
26.
Output power is typically attenuated 2‐20 dB by LED luminaire housing.

Thanks,



Jess Williams

Sr. Network Engineer, Network Engineering
University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
Helping Students Achieve Excellence through Technology
jess-willi...@utc.edu<mailto:jess-willi...@utc.edu>
423-425-2372
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

***

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi's impact?

[Julian Y Koh]

> On Mar 23, 2017, at 09:06, Williams, Jess  wrote:
> 
> Our campus Facilities department is looking at a wireless lighting control 
> system that uses a "Zigbee based" 2.4GHz wireless protocol.

We’ve been getting some similar requests for things like thermostats and the 
like.  I’m thinking that the opportunity exists for conversations that go 
beyond just frequency band usage and interference avoidance and talking about 
what possibilities exist to move these devices to the 802.11 network itself.  
Obviously that’s not going to work for every situation but I think we at least 
need to try to get ahead of this so that we can be involved in purchasing 
decisions/discussions.

-- 
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2001 Sheridan Road #G-166
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
PGP Public Key: 


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or Wi-Fi's impact?

[Mike Atkins]

I would be concerned about your campus WiFi overrunning the ZigBee
operation.  We have a similar situation with ZigBee probes used to monitor
freezer temperatures.  Campus WiFi is not heavily used in the kitchen areas
so no issues to note for either side.







*Mike Atkins *

Network Engineer

Office of Information Technology

University of Notre Dame



*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Williams, Jess
*Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:07 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless Lighting Controls - impact on Wi-Fi or
Wi-Fi's impact?



Our campus Facilities department is looking at a wireless lighting control
system that uses a "Zigbee based" 2.4GHz wireless protocol.  An example use
case for this system is a parking garage that has 86 lights which are
connected using a mesh network, however I can see it spreading indoors at
some point down the road.  At a minimum, I know this will raise the noise
floor.  Does anyone have any experience with a similar situation/technology
that can share how this impacts your campus Wi-Fi or how Wi-Fi has impacted
the lighting control system, etc?



The product is AcuityControls XPoint Wireless lighting controls

http://www.acuitybrands.com/products/controls/xpoint-wireless#e8f40e39-86a8-4d2e-9072-e8b872bce11b





I'm told by the manufacturer that the default channel used is Zigbee
Channel 15, which is 2.425 MHz (5MHz total channel width).  The channel can
be changed.



Vendor says:

"XPoint Wireless Mesh operate a low duty cycle, narrow band (5 MHz wide)
communications at up to +18 dBm output power, whereas 2.4 GHz Wifi operates
at a high duty cycle, wideband communications (typical 20 to 60 MHz wide)
typically at up to +23 dBm (that’s log scale so that’s a 5 dB difference
which is actually over 3x as powerful as our system). I’ve never once seen
a confirmed case where our Zigbee based mesh network interfered with their
Wifi."  They promise it won't interfere with Wi-Fi.



I'd be more comfortable with something that uses 900MHz instead of 2.4GHz.



Vendor documentation:

XPoint Wireless uses a low duty cycle, narrow‐band, Zigbee®‐based 2.4 GHz
wireless protocol that is not

known to interfere with your 2.4 GHz WiFi or other systems. The low
communication duty cycle,

combined with clear‐to‐send backoff capability from the IEEE802.15.4 radio,
typically does not produce

measurable impact to WiFi performance and is usually difficult to observe
in an RF spectrum analyzer.

Each XPoint Wireless Bridge and associated mesh network (typically up to
250 wireless devices) can also

be programmed to use a specific Zigbee RF channel to avoid co‐channel
interference with other installed 2.4 GHz equipment. Zigbee channels 11‐26,
corresponding with 5 MHz‐wide frequency bands from

2.405 GHz to 2.480 GHz may be assigned to specific wireless mesh networks.



The wireless communication is secured and encrypted using AES 128‐bit
encryption. The network

protocol includes “replay” protection, where each wireless message is
uniquely encoded such that it

cannot be recorded and replayed at a later time.



Maximum RF power output is +18 dBm for Zigbee Channels 11‐25, 0 dBm for
Channel 26.

Output power is typically attenuated 2‐20 dB by LED luminaire housing.



Thanks,



*Jess Williams*

Sr. Network Engineer, Network Engineering

*University of Tennessee at Chattanooga*

*Helping Students Achieve Excellence through Technology*

jess-willi...@utc.edu
423-425-2372

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.