RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms...
I don't agree with this analysis. Students may have the right to use the spectrum on their personal network. I don't believe they have an inherent right to broadcast the university's network out into the dorm parking lot. [I'm not a lawyer, but I could play one on TV] Tom Zeller Indiana University -Original Message- From: Sascha Meinrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms... Hi all, Date:Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:12:21 -0500 From:Lee Badman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Rouge Detection in Dorms I know that we found that finding rogues is almost meaningless if there = isn't strong policy to back up their removal and banishment. We get = push-back that the students' rooms are their homes, and in their homes = they should be able to do their own wireless, etc... That notion gets = weaker if you have wireless everywhere, but still the written policy with = senior management sponsorship and very clear communication to students = that such devices aren't allowed needs to be in place- just as important = as any software or tools.=20 I still toy with this idea- through the wire detection- as much as (or in = concert with) a sensor-based solution: www.wimetrics.com=20 I suspect that rogue suppression and elimination of unlicensed devices from student's dorms is a practice that is without legal protection and would seriously caution any University from engaging in this practice. It's one thing to prevent connection to your network of unauthorized devices (which is clearly within a network administrators rights), but it's quite another to remove or banish unlicensed devices outright. It's not so much that that students rooms are their homes as that no one has any exclusive property rights to unlicensed frequencies -- everything from clarifying statements from the FCC and the OTARD rules back up students' rights to buy, deploy, and use unlicensed devices wherever they choose. If there are any telecom lawyers on this list, I would love to hear some clarification on the legal ramifications of enforcing a banning and removal of unlicensed devices, but I anticipate that the law will back up the students rights to utilize these devices. --Sascha -- Sascha Meinrath Policy Analyst* Project Coordinator * President Free Press *** CUWiN *** Acorn Active Media www.freepress.net * www.cuwireless.net * www.acornactivemedia.com ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms...
I believe that is Sascha's point. They can not necessarily connect it to the campus owned network. That is within our rights to say. But what about even forbidding the running of the AP. Why would the student want an AP that is not connected to the network? Who cares, when drafting a policy that stands on the foundation of running unlicensed equipment it is bound to be fought. However, basing it on what can be connected to the network is relatively easy. This is what we currently do in our CNUP. http://www.keene.edu/policy/cnup.cfm http://www.keene.edu/it/security/connect.cfm _ Thank you, Gregory R. Scholz Lead Network Engineer Information Technology Group Keene State College (603)358-2070 -Original Message- From: Zeller, Tom S [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:46 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms... I don't agree with this analysis. Students may have the right to use the spectrum on their personal network. I don't believe they have an inherent right to broadcast the university's network out into the dorm parking lot. [I'm not a lawyer, but I could play one on TV] Tom Zeller Indiana University -Original Message- From: Sascha Meinrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms... Hi all, Date:Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:12:21 -0500 From:Lee Badman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Rouge Detection in Dorms I know that we found that finding rogues is almost meaningless if there = isn't strong policy to back up their removal and banishment. We get = push-back that the students' rooms are their homes, and in their homes = they should be able to do their own wireless, etc... That notion gets = weaker if you have wireless everywhere, but still the written policy with = senior management sponsorship and very clear communication to students = that such devices aren't allowed needs to be in place- just as important = as any software or tools.=20 I still toy with this idea- through the wire detection- as much as (or in = concert with) a sensor-based solution: www.wimetrics.com=20 I suspect that rogue suppression and elimination of unlicensed devices from student's dorms is a practice that is without legal protection and would seriously caution any University from engaging in this practice. It's one thing to prevent connection to your network of unauthorized devices (which is clearly within a network administrators rights), but it's quite another to remove or banish unlicensed devices outright. It's not so much that that students rooms are their homes as that no one has any exclusive property rights to unlicensed frequencies -- everything from clarifying statements from the FCC and the OTARD rules back up students' rights to buy, deploy, and use unlicensed devices wherever they choose. If there are any telecom lawyers on this list, I would love to hear some clarification on the legal ramifications of enforcing a banning and removal of unlicensed devices, but I anticipate that the law will back up the students rights to utilize these devices. --Sascha -- Sascha Meinrath Policy Analyst* Project Coordinator * President Free Press *** CUWiN *** Acorn Active Media www.freepress.net * www.cuwireless.net * www.acornactivemedia.com ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms...
Greg's point is exactly on target. Schools should not say that AP's are forbidden, but can say that unauthorized devices can not directly or indirectly be attached to their network, and then enforce that policy. So any wireless-based rogue suppression in a school dormitory setting needs to be exact enough to only suppress those devices attached to the school network. That's why wire-based rogue detection and subsequent disabling in a school setting can be so attractive because: a) it's port per pillow, so if the device is attached, you can turn the port off and know who it was b) no risk accidentally knocking off AP's that are not attached c) don't need to deploy APs or sensors everywhere just to enforce your network access policies. But I need to follow that up with saying that wireline-only rogue detection does not nearly catch everything, as Lee Badman has commented before, and is not as exact a science as the vendors might have you believe. The use of AP's unattached to the network are of likely little value to the students, so the policies (one permissible, one not so legal) are almost equivalent. Kind regards, Frank Bulk -Original Message- From: Scholz, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms... I believe that is Sascha's point. They can not necessarily connect it to the campus owned network. That is within our rights to say. But what about even forbidding the running of the AP. Why would the student want an AP that is not connected to the network? Who cares, when drafting a policy that stands on the foundation of running unlicensed equipment it is bound to be fought. However, basing it on what can be connected to the network is relatively easy. This is what we currently do in our CNUP. http://www.keene.edu/policy/cnup.cfm http://www.keene.edu/it/security/connect.cfm _ Thank you, Gregory R. Scholz Lead Network Engineer Information Technology Group Keene State College (603)358-2070 -Original Message- From: Zeller, Tom S [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:46 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms... I don't agree with this analysis. Students may have the right to use the spectrum on their personal network. I don't believe they have an inherent right to broadcast the university's network out into the dorm parking lot. [I'm not a lawyer, but I could play one on TV] Tom Zeller Indiana University -Original Message- From: Sascha Meinrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Rogue Detection in Dorms... Hi all, Date:Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:12:21 -0500 From:Lee Badman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Rouge Detection in Dorms I know that we found that finding rogues is almost meaningless if there = isn't strong policy to back up their removal and banishment. We get = push-back that the students' rooms are their homes, and in their homes = they should be able to do their own wireless, etc... That notion gets = weaker if you have wireless everywhere, but still the written policy with = senior management sponsorship and very clear communication to students = that such devices aren't allowed needs to be in place- just as important = as any software or tools.=20 I still toy with this idea- through the wire detection- as much as (or in = concert with) a sensor-based solution: www.wimetrics.com=20 I suspect that rogue suppression and elimination of unlicensed devices from student's dorms is a practice that is without legal protection and would seriously caution any University from engaging in this practice. It's one thing to prevent connection to your network of unauthorized devices (which is clearly within a network administrators rights), but it's quite another to remove or banish unlicensed devices outright. It's not so much that that students rooms are their homes as that no one has any exclusive property rights to unlicensed frequencies -- everything from clarifying statements from the FCC and the OTARD rules back up students' rights to buy, deploy, and use unlicensed devices wherever they choose. If there are any telecom lawyers on this list, I would love to hear some clarification on the legal ramifications of enforcing a banning and removal of unlicensed devices, but I anticipate that the law will back up the students rights to utilize these devices. --Sascha -- Sascha Meinrath Policy Analyst* Project Coordinator * President Free Press *** CUWiN *** Acorn Active Media www.freepress.net * www.cuwireless.net * www.acornactivemedia.com ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found
