Re: [wpkg-users] WPKG uninstalls unmanaged software?
Hello Kevin, Included is the requested information. The log file ends abruptly because the antivirus removal reboots the computer. No, this computer has definitely never seen WPKG. WPKG client is also not installed. I made a mistake in my problem report. Originally, I stated that McAfee was included in my profiles workstation and server. That is actually not the case. I have a package.xml file McAfee, but it is actually currently not used in any profile. Well, just had a look at the version of wpkg.js you are using: 1.1.1 At http://wpkg.org/Download you find stable version 1.1.2 from Sep. 2009 - why do you use such an old Wpkg version? I thought I used 1.1.2 - not sure where the 1.1.1 came from. I'll update that, of course! I already returned that computer, but will retry it next time. Fine. ... 2011-06-06 00:17:49, DEBUG : WPKG 1.1.1 starting... ... 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Checking existence of package: McAfee ASAP 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Reading variables from package McAfee ASAP ... 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Uninstall entry for McAfee Virus and Spyware Protection Service was found: test successful 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Adding settings node: 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap), Revision 4 ... 2011-06-06 00:18:06, DEBUG : Found installed package 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap). 2011-06-06 00:18:06, DEBUG : Marking package 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap) for remove ... 2011-06-06 00:18:08, DEBUG : Removing package 'mcafeeasap'. 2011-06-06 00:18:08, DEBUG : Package 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap): Not yet processed during this session. 2011-06-06 00:18:08, DEBUG : Removal of depending packages for 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap) successfully finished. 2011-06-06 00:18:08, INFO: Removing McAfee ASAP (mcafeeasap)... Wpkg detects your McAfee package as installed and removes it, since it is not assigned to your host. The question is: why does wpkg detect it as installed in the first place? The whole point of the discussion a while ago was that wpkg supposedly does *not* detect installed programs unless they are listed in wpkg.xml. Yes, but: at time of this discussion Wpkg was at version 1.1.2 stable. Nobody asked about which version was used - and wrote about what earlier Wpkg versions might have done. It would be nice if you could really reproduce the same situation and use wpkg.js from svn. But I think, in this situation, Wpkg does the things not so bad: One can indeed make the case that this behavior is acceptable. The problem is more that it contradicts something that was explicitly stated. No. You did use old Wpkg version - old and new discussions go about recent Wpkg. Worse, it appears that in *some* scenarios, software gets removed, and in others it is left untouched. Nothing worse than inconsistent behavior in a tool that is supposed to help make your environment more consistent. Again. Time of discussion was Feb 2010. The behaviour of not touching versions not installed using Wpkg was at least since 1.1.2 dating Sep 2009. Personally, I think that a new feature would be desirable to control this on the profile level. In profile.xml, the package tag could be enhanced by adding an attribute: Today: package package-id=openoffice / New: package package-id=openoffice action=XXX / Where XXX is: - install (same as action= attribute omitted): same behavior as today - remove (always uninstall if the package already exists, even if it is missing in wpkg.xml) - skip (don't install or uninstall regardless of whether it is listed in wpkg.xml) - manage (add to wpkg.xml if found, but don't install if it is missing). - unmanage (remove from wpkg.xml but do not uninstall) I don't know if this makes sense - but usually this could break lots of other things. Perhaps Rainer knows if it is possible at all. At least unmanage is not needed IMHO - if a software is not in package database AND not assigned in profile, wpkg does this automagically. manage could make sense in scenarios where some software should later be uninstalled using Wpkg. If you tried recent Wpkg version in your scenario *and* think that this is needed, yet, please file a feature request on http://bugzilla.wpkg.org. I've just made a quick test to reproduce your situation: I think one possible difference between your scenario and mine is that you *had* a wpkg.xml. In my case, wpkg.xml didn't exist at all. It should theoretically be the same whether you just delete 7zip from the wpkg.xml, or you delete the whole file - but maybe it isn't? No, IMHO this makes no difference. But it's no problem for me to check this: - renamed wpkg.xml - 7zip package is not assigned to the host's profile but installed - run wpkg (1.1.3-RC6) - only packages with execute=once or execute=always have been (re)installed, all other packages only stated already installed. 7zip was not touched in any way. Thank you very much for
Re: [wpkg-users] WPKG uninstalls unmanaged software?
Hi Falko and others, Honestly I did not yet follow the full thread. But I would like to drop some comments. On 09.06.2011 11:06, Falko Trojahn wrote: - install (same as action= attribute omitted): same behavior as today - remove (always uninstall if the package already exists, even if it is missing in wpkg.xml) - skip (don't install or uninstall regardless of whether it is listed in wpkg.xml) - manage (add to wpkg.xml if found, but don't install if it is missing). - unmanage (remove from wpkg.xml but do not uninstall) I don't know if this makes sense - but usually this could break lots of other things. Perhaps Rainer knows if it is possible at all. At least unmanage is not needed IMHO - if a software is not in package database AND not assigned in profile, wpkg does this automagically. manage could make sense in scenarios where some software should later be uninstalled using Wpkg. About unamange: Well the main purpose of WPKG is to manage software. If a specific piece of software shall be removed from the WPKG tree without affecting the clients (the ones who have it keep it and the ones who don't have it are just ignored) then you can simply do the following: - Increment package revision - Remove checks from package - Specify no remove command - Advisable: Define upgrade command which exits quickly or does not do anything - Make sure the package is not listed in the profile for a specific machine Now WPKG simply performs an upgrade on the machine. The upgrade actually does not perform any action but is successful from WPKG point of view. Now WPKG inserts the updated package into wpkg.xml. Since it's removed now from the profile WPKG will immediately uninstall it. As the new package (just upgraded to) has no uninstall commands it will succeed to uninstall it but actually not performing any change on the system. So the software is unmanaged. About manage: This is default WPKG behavior. If a package is not yet assigned to a host and it's first assigned, then WPKG will first perform the checks. If checks are already true, then WPKG just inserts the package to wpkg.xml without performing any install/upgrade commands. br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] WPKG uninstalls unmanaged software?
Hello Falko, -Original Message- From: Falko Trojahn [mailto:nospam...@smi-softmark.de] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 2:02 AM To: wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org Cc: Kevin Keane Subject: Re: [wpkg-users] WPKG uninstalls unmanaged software? Hello Kevin, Am 06.06.2011 13:31, Falko Trojahn wrote: Included is the requested information. The log file ends abruptly because the antivirus removal reboots the computer. No, this computer has definitely never seen WPKG. WPKG client is also not installed. I made a mistake in my problem report. Originally, I stated that McAfee was included in my profiles workstation and server. That is actually not the case. I have a package.xml file McAfee, but it is actually currently not used in any profile. Well, just had a look at the version of wpkg.js you are using: 1.1.1 At http://wpkg.org/Download you find stable version 1.1.2 from Sep. 2009 - why do you use such an old Wpkg version? I thought I used 1.1.2 - not sure where the 1.1.1 came from. I'll update that, of course! I already returned that computer, but will retry it next time. ... 2011-06-06 00:17:49, DEBUG : WPKG 1.1.1 starting... ... 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Checking existence of package: McAfee ASAP 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Reading variables from package McAfee ASAP ... 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Uninstall entry for McAfee Virus and Spyware Protection Service was found: test successful 2011-06-06 00:18:01, DEBUG : Adding settings node: 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap), Revision 4 ... 2011-06-06 00:18:06, DEBUG : Found installed package 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap). 2011-06-06 00:18:06, DEBUG : Marking package 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap) for remove ... 2011-06-06 00:18:08, DEBUG : Removing package 'mcafeeasap'. 2011-06-06 00:18:08, DEBUG : Package 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap): Not yet processed during this session. 2011-06-06 00:18:08, DEBUG : Removal of depending packages for 'McAfee ASAP' (mcafeeasap) successfully finished. 2011-06-06 00:18:08, INFO: Removing McAfee ASAP (mcafeeasap)... Wpkg detects your McAfee package as installed and removes it, since it is not assigned to your host. The question is: why does wpkg detect it as installed in the first place? The whole point of the discussion a while ago was that wpkg supposedly does *not* detect installed programs unless they are listed in wpkg.xml. It would be nice if you could really reproduce the same situation and use wpkg.js from svn. But I think, in this situation, Wpkg does the things not so bad: One can indeed make the case that this behavior is acceptable. The problem is more that it contradicts something that was explicitly stated. Worse, it appears that in *some* scenarios, software gets removed, and in others it is left untouched. Nothing worse than inconsistent behavior in a tool that is supposed to help make your environment more consistent. Personally, I think that a new feature would be desirable to control this on the profile level. In profile.xml, the package tag could be enhanced by adding an attribute: Today: package package-id=openoffice / New: package package-id=openoffice action=XXX / Where XXX is: - install (same as action= attribute omitted): same behavior as today - remove (always uninstall if the package already exists, even if it is missing in wpkg.xml) - skip (don't install or uninstall regardless of whether it is listed in wpkg.xml) - manage (add to wpkg.xml if found, but don't install if it is missing). - unmanage (remove from wpkg.xml but do not uninstall) I've just made a quick test to reproduce your situation: I think one possible difference between your scenario and mine is that you *had* a wpkg.xml. In my case, wpkg.xml didn't exist at all. It should theoretically be the same whether you just delete 7zip from the wpkg.xml, or you delete the whole file - but maybe it isn't? Thank you very much for looking into this! - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
[wpkg-users] WPKG uninstalls unmanaged software?
A couple months ago, there was a discussion on this list about WPKG uninstalling software that had been installed manually and never been managed by wpkg (The discussion was titled Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install? http://www.mail-archive.com/wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org/msg03848.html ) Back then, the consensus was that this was not possible, and at the time I didn't have a specific scenario. I have come across such a situation today, and it should be reproducible. Here is the scenario where it happened: I have a server with WPKG on it. There are three profiles in wpkg: server, workstation and preinstall. Server and workstation are used for my own internal computers. Preinstall is used for computers that I build or that come into my shop; it sets up a baseline of software and makes sure everything is up to date. Things such as the latest version of Flash, Firefox, Chrome, Java, ... The computer I have been working on happened to have the same antivirus software installed that I use internally (McAfee ASAP). McAfee is part of my internal profile, but is not part of the preinstall profile since not all computers that come in have a license for it. I found that WPKG did in fact remove McAfee even though it hadn't installed it. I run the preinstallation with the following command line: CScript %BASEDIR%\windows\wpkg\wpkg.js /profile:preinstall /synchronize /nonotify /quiet So the conditions to reproduce this appear to be: - Find a computer that has never been managed by WPKG - Create a package for some software that is already installed on this computer - Create a profile called workstation that contains this software. - Create a profile called preinstall that does not contain this software. Use the above command line to launch wpkg on the test computer. Thanks! Kevin Keane The NetTech http://www.4nettech.com - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
