Re: [wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
Hi Joe, Joe Konecny wrote: Although I have never used it I assumed that the web front end used the xml files already. If not, I agree that it should. No, it does not. It uses a database backend to store all information. WPKG includes direct support to read the XML files using HTTP protocol (using basic authentication). This is quite efficient as WPKG just needs to fetch the XML files using HTTP instead of connecting to a CIFS share to open several files (which can be quite inefficient). I made good experience even on slow VPN connections using WPKG WEB and HTTP access while I was not really satisfied with access speed of CIFS shares over slow VPN connections. See config.xml and wpkg.js parameters to read more about how wpkg.js can fetch XML files from HTTP URLs. The new WPKG WEB could probably support the same interface too (which is a nice-to-have feature). br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
Rainer Meier schrieb: Hi, mscdex wrote: Thank you for the suggestions. Regarding the XML import/export, I'm not sure what the purpose of this would be? The way I imagined the frontend to be was that it would work directly with the xml files on disk and none of that information would be stored in a database. OK, this idea sounds good for me too. However there are some points which have to be taken into consideration. If the web GUI directly edits the XML files, then the same server is supposed to run the GUI as well as the windows share (or Samba) which might not fit some environments (no web server service on file servers). I am not concerned about speed as we are not talking about millions of XML files but rather about less than 100. Personally I thought the GUI would store its package information into a DB backend or a local storage. In such case XML import/export would be very helpful for migration purposes too. The current WPKG WEB supports downloading of packages.xml (including all package definitions) using HTTP protocol (including basic authentication). Personally I am using this option at the moment. It is quite an efficient way to read the XML files. Reading them from a CIFS share is less efficient. A command line interface for retrieving the files directly from either: a) the database, or b) from the web interface wget would do here, provided there are some sane links and files to download from, i.e.: http://server/wpkg-web/all-packages.txt would return a list of all packages, one package in a row. Then, iterate through a list, i.e.: http://server/wpkg-web/packages/$package.xml Useful for the servers which don't have any web interface. -- Tomasz Chmielewski http://wpkg.org - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
Hi Tomasz, Tomasz Chmielewski wrote: A command line interface for retrieving the files directly from either: a) the database, or b) from the web interface wget would do here, provided there are some sane links and files to download from, i.e.: http://server/wpkg-web/all-packages.txt would return a list of all packages, one package in a row. Then, iterate through a list, i.e.: http://server/wpkg-web/packages/$package.xml Useful for the servers which don't have any web interface. The current WPKG WEB interface supplies a similar interface. Instead of having to fetch a list first it returns an XML file containing _all_ packages. Note that one XML file can contain as many package definitions as you like: packages package ... /package package ... /package ... /packages So WPKG even does not have to fetch a list first in order to fetch the package definitions. However I think it is not a problem for a WEB interface to provide all interfaces: - URL to fetch XML with all package definitions - URL to fetch list with package names - URL to fetch XML which contains only single package definition It also does not matter if the platform stores the XML files internally to one or to several XML files (or to database) it just needs to provide the information on a defined interface. Of course it would be nice if at least the existing interface for WPGK WEB would be stills upported (fetching single XML file with all package definitions). br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
Hi, mscdex wrote: Lately I've been tinkering with the idea of creating a new web-based utility to manage wpkg profiles, packages, etc. The existing wpkg web utility is outdated (last updated in mid-2007ish) and the maintainer for it appears to be no longer active. I believe having a decent (and active) frontend project would help a lot of people, even those of us who don't mind manually modifying XML files and such. It might even allow many of us to sell wpkg to some of our clients by showing them how easy it is to manage software deployment (for free!) I absolutely agree. Personally I am still using WPKG WEB even if it is unmaintained and I cannot use some features introduced by myself into WPKG ;-) In fact I could export the XML files at any time and continue to use XML files. I don't mind editing XML files but WPKG WEB provides a more nice interface and it is good if some GUI is available to show to some administrators looking for a software deployment tool like WPKG. So I really support the idea to develop a new web-based package management tool. So now let's list some suggestions: - XML import/export I think it is important to support exporting the resulting XML files. This helps for debugging or in case somebody will switch from GUI to manual XML edit. The import feature seems to be very important to me in order to support smooth migration. Probably it does not make much sense to migrate the current WPKG WEB database but just export all XML files from WPKG WEB and then import the XML files to the new GUI. - Support XSD I worked on some XSD files to define the syntax of package and other WPKG XML files. By loading the XSD file within the GUI it should be possible to provide an editor which displays a nice GUI with pull-down lists for enumerated lists, check field contents by XSD definition and so on. I am also thinking about a kind of advanced button on the package edit page which would allow to insert/edit all attributes according to XSD (in case the GUI does display only the most frequently used ones). This would allow to support new syntax, attributes and nodes even if they did not exist when the GUI was created. There might be a plain-XML tab/button as well to allow direct edit of the XML source (which is of course validated by XSD). This could even convince hard-core XML administrators to use the GUI as it offers full flexibility to them. - Templates Most packages are based on a small number of installers. For example NSIS, MSI and InnoSetup are very common. It would be nice if there would be some (customizable and extensible) templates available to the administrator. So one could click on create new NSIS package and a new package which already includes %SOFTWARE\softXY\setup.exe /S as the installer command and the likely. - Ajax Well, nice buzzword. I hate buzzwords. But in this case I see some very nice use cases. The current WPKG web interface for example allows to re-order checks or commands. However continously clicking on the ^ or v button to move an item up or down is annoying. The same applies for different sections of the XML files. I like the tabbed interface of WPKG WEB but it needs to reload the whole page on each operation. Well, this is not a blocker but could for sure increase speed and usability. - Usability in general Unfortunately this is nothing which can be described in general. I think it needs to be a process of discussion. Especially developers tend to create huge, complicated GUIs which provide very poor usability. I am sure we have some people on the list which could then contribute to make the GUI better. I just suggest to be open to usability comments or even better: ASK FOR USABILITY COMMENTS. In general I suggest keeping the main GUI slim and easy to use with some extension points (like advanced or buttons to open an advanced edit panel or similar stuff). I would say 90% of the packages can be done with very few configuration and 80% of the WPKG features are only used in very very rare cases. Try to follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple and Stupid). Just my five cents for now, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
Thank you for the suggestions. Regarding the XML import/export, I'm not sure what the purpose of this would be? The way I imagined the frontend to be was that it would work directly with the xml files on disk and none of that information would be stored in a database. XSD looks like it could indeed be useful. Personally I have never used XSDs, so I'd have to learn the format, but that shouldn't be a problem really. Your templates idea is a good one. One of the ideas I had been thinking about recently was the possibility of having a central repository that would hold packages. These would include not just the actual xml contents of the wpkg package itself but also metadata like any sort of possible software requirements needed by install/upgrade/remove steps (e.g. pskill, taskkill, or any other utility) or other things they should know about the package. Network administrators using the web interface could then pull in these packages from the repository at the click of a button and have it inserted into the packages directory or packages.xml file. This would save a step or two and might make things a little more streamlined. Ajax is something I had already planned on using. As you mentioned, operations like re-ordering priorities of packages, checks, and other things would greatly benefit from functionality like this and allow the opportunity to be much more efficient. As far as usability is concerned, I'm thinking about using an MVC framework ala CakePHP. This way, if for some reason the default view does not work a user generated template can be used instead. Although I will aim to create a useful default interface from the get-go, I think having that option on the table might be appealing to some? Brian On 8/3/08, Rainer Meier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, mscdex wrote: Lately I've been tinkering with the idea of creating a new web-based utility to manage wpkg profiles, packages, etc. The existing wpkg web utility is outdated (last updated in mid-2007ish) and the maintainer for it appears to be no longer active. I believe having a decent (and active) frontend project would help a lot of people, even those of us who don't mind manually modifying XML files and such. It might even allow many of us to sell wpkg to some of our clients by showing them how easy it is to manage software deployment (for free!) I absolutely agree. Personally I am still using WPKG WEB even if it is unmaintained and I cannot use some features introduced by myself into WPKG ;-) In fact I could export the XML files at any time and continue to use XML files. I don't mind editing XML files but WPKG WEB provides a more nice interface and it is good if some GUI is available to show to some administrators looking for a software deployment tool like WPKG. So I really support the idea to develop a new web-based package management tool. So now let's list some suggestions: - XML import/export I think it is important to support exporting the resulting XML files. This helps for debugging or in case somebody will switch from GUI to manual XML edit. The import feature seems to be very important to me in order to support smooth migration. Probably it does not make much sense to migrate the current WPKG WEB database but just export all XML files from WPKG WEB and then import the XML files to the new GUI. - Support XSD I worked on some XSD files to define the syntax of package and other WPKG XML files. By loading the XSD file within the GUI it should be possible to provide an editor which displays a nice GUI with pull-down lists for enumerated lists, check field contents by XSD definition and so on. I am also thinking about a kind of advanced button on the package edit page which would allow to insert/edit all attributes according to XSD (in case the GUI does display only the most frequently used ones). This would allow to support new syntax, attributes and nodes even if they did not exist when the GUI was created. There might be a plain-XML tab/button as well to allow direct edit of the XML source (which is of course validated by XSD). This could even convince hard-core XML administrators to use the GUI as it offers full flexibility to them. - Templates Most packages are based on a small number of installers. For example NSIS, MSI and InnoSetup are very common. It would be nice if there would be some (customizable and extensible) templates available to the administrator. So one could click on create new NSIS package and a new package which already includes %SOFTWARE\softXY\setup.exe /S as the installer command and the likely. - Ajax Well, nice buzzword. I hate buzzwords. But in this case I see some very nice use cases. The current WPKG web interface for example allows to re-order checks or commands. However continously clicking on the ^ or v button to move an item up or down is annoying. The same applies for different sections of the XML files. I like the tabbed interface of WPKG
Re: [wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
mscdex wrote: Thank you for the suggestions. Regarding the XML import/export, I'm not sure what the purpose of this would be? The way I imagined the frontend to be was that it would work directly with the xml files on disk and none of that information would be stored in a database. Although I have never used it I assumed that the web front end used the xml files already. If not, I agree that it should. - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
[wpkg-users] new web-based wpkg manager
Lately I've been tinkering with the idea of creating a new web-based utility to manage wpkg profiles, packages, etc. The existing wpkg web utility is outdated (last updated in mid-2007ish) and the maintainer for it appears to be no longer active. I believe having a decent (and active) frontend project would help a lot of people, even those of us who don't mind manually modifying XML files and such. It might even allow many of us to sell wpkg to some of our clients by showing them how easy it is to manage software deployment (for free!) I have some ideas floating around but I thought I'd post here and see if there are any specific features or functionality any of you would especially like to see in a frontend like this. - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
