RE: Autoresponders on the list Was: Re: [WSG] equal height columns
Benedict Wyss wrote: People need to have auto responders for business reasons, does this mean we say people on the list have to send and receive from a web mail address not a work address? I don't think View - Options - Uncheck 'request read receipt' box is too much to ask before clicking on reply, do you? I find it very annoying, to the point where i auto delete the message without even reading it even if the subject had interested me before hand. If that's how you see it, I don't think that clicking the Send Receipt button is too much to ask... You can even decline sending it, but it takes you one click. To change my options is much more trouble, and then to set it back is is four times as much as you have to do. I have mine on for a good reason, and if you people are going to throw tantrums about it, you can count me out. Moaning and groaning about everything in life will make you a very sad person! I'm not willing to share in your sadness, so I'll subscribe. Gees... So much things for us to do... We just can't cope, can we? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** -- NOTICE -- This message (including attachments) contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, copy or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, facsimile or telephone and thereafter delete the material from any computer. Metropolitan Health Group, its subsidiaries or associates do not accept liability for any personal views expressed in this message. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
LIST ADMIN: Autoresponders on the list Was: Re: [WSG] equal height columns
* LIST ADMIN ** This thread is CLOSED. If you wish to continue the discussion please take it off list. WSG List Admin -- Forwarded message -- From: Quintin Stoltz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 18-Apr-2007 16:32 Subject: RE: Autoresponders on the list Was: Re: [WSG] equal height columns To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Benedict Wyss wrote: People need to have auto responders for business reasons, does this mean we say people on the list have to send and receive from a web mail address not a work address? I don't think View - Options - Uncheck 'request read receipt' box is too much to ask before clicking on reply, do you? I find it very annoying, to the point where i auto delete the message without even reading it even if the subject had interested me before hand. If that's how you see it, I don't think that clicking the Send Receipt button is too much to ask... You can even decline sending it, but it takes you one click. To change my options is much more trouble, and then to set it back is is four times as much as you have to do. I have mine on for a good reason, and if you people are going to throw tantrums about it, you can count me out. Moaning and groaning about everything in life will make you a very sad person! I'm not willing to share in your sadness, so I'll subscribe. Gees... So much things for us to do... We just can't cope, can we? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ** - NOTICE - This message (including attachments) contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, copy or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, facsimile or telephone and thereafter delete the material from any computer. Metropolitan Health Group, its subsidiaries or associates, does not accept liability for any personal views expressed in this message. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
John Horner wrote: I'm looking at a design involving image thumbnails and the instruction to click images for larger version -- I have the idea that saying click is wrong, or rather the assumption that everyone is using a mouse is wrong. So, how would you word this instruction, or otherwise inform users that a small image links to a larger one? Images are linked to larger versions seems to passive-voice to me, and I can't think of any generic term for using a link. I racked my brain over this one, too (I build a lot of image galleries), and finally settled on 'Select an image to enlarge'. Long translation: 'Use whatever navigation method your browsing device employs to select an image thumbnail and hit enter to see an enlarged version.' Works for me. N ___ omnivision. websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
I've been using View Larger Image. Perhaps even view is the wrong term now that I think about it. But wouldn't those with sight disabilities pick up on the alt and title tags of the img and href and ignore clicking on it in the first place? something like this: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= /br /View Larger Image/a Good discussion. :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
Hi, Images link to larger version. is less passive-voiced. Stuart On Wed, April 18, 2007 12:52 am, John Horner wrote: I'm looking at a design involving image thumbnails and the instruction to click images for larger version -- I have the idea that saying click is wrong, or rather the assumption that everyone is using a mouse is wrong. So, how would you word this instruction, or otherwise inform users that a small image links to a larger one? Images are linked to larger versions seems to passive-voice to me, and I can't think of any generic term for using a link. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
On 4/18/07, Webb, KerryA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While it's true that not everybody will use a mouse (and some of these mouses will not have any auditory feedback), click is a well-understood term that shouldn't alienate any users. In my opinion. Yeah, but outside of the 'oo are we gonna offend someone?' aspect (which I agree is a bit spurious), it's also completely redundant. It's like writing 'Grab the handle and then push' on a door, instead of just 'push'. Using something more direct, like View larger image or Send us a message just flows better as written text. -Raena *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] List with image and paragraph - help
Hi all, I want to create an inline styled list, with two elements inside this list which are block level 1st level: An image which will be img src= / coded, and 2nd Level: a line of text underneath the image. ie: A list with two elements, one sitting under the other in the same list item. Is it best to create a unordered list and have another list within this? li ul lia href=#img src=img/xxx.jpg alt= width= height= //a/li li class=texta href=#text/a/li /ul /li --- Would appreiciate URL examples if anyone has any. -- Regards, Jim Callender *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] List with image and paragraph - help
Hi, The best way to do it would depend entirely on what you want to do, i.e. code your list according to its semantics and stucture. Inside each inline list item you have an image and text - in your example these are each contained within their own link tag. Are the href destinatiobns the same? If not, what is the relationship between them? If both links have the same destination then its best to have only one link and hence no sublists. If the links have different destinations with a relationship between them, then 'submenu' structure you use in your example would be appropriate. Yours, Stuart On Wed, April 18, 2007 3:14 pm, Jim Callender wrote: Hi all, I want to create an inline styled list, with two elements inside this list which are block level 1st level: An image which will be img src= / coded, and 2nd Level: a line of text underneath the image. ie: A list with two elements, one sitting under the other in the same list item. Is it best to create a unordered list and have another list within this? li ul lia href=#img src=img/xxx.jpg alt= width= height= //a/li li class=texta href=#text/a/li /ul /li --- Would appreiciate URL examples if anyone has any. -- Regards, Jim Callender *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] List with image and paragraph - help
At 4/18/2007 07:14 AM, Jim Callender wrote: I want to create an inline styled list, with two elements inside this list which are block level 1st level: An image which will be img src= / coded, and 2nd Level: a line of text underneath the image. ie: A list with two elements, one sitting under the other in the same list item. Is it best to create a unordered list and have another list within this? Using nested lists for this seems like overly heavy markup to me. Many people use the definition list for image/caption pairs (although there's disagreement over whether an image and its caption qualify as a term and its description; personally I don't have a problem with the metaphor). Google CSS DEFINITION LIST GALLERY for many examples and discussions. An example using a definition list: http://juniperwebcraft.com/what_websites.php (This example has several differentiated text blocks per image, but the principal still applies to a simpler image-and-caption model.) An example of using an unordered list with an image and paragraph in each list item: http://tm-athletics.com/jackets_materialsLeather.php (scroll down to swatches) Regards, Paul __ Paul Novitski Juniper Webcraft Ltd. http://juniperwebcraft.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:54:22 +1000, Raena Jackson Armitage wrote: Using something more direct, like View larger image or Send us a message just flows better as written text. Exactly how to approach this depends on your audience. If your market is largely internet newbs, who aren't yet cofident with this mousey-thing they push around with their hand - gently walk them through it with 'click here to view a larger image' If your market is seasoned web standards developers 'larger image' is probably sufficient. ;) There is no one hard and fast rule - Know Thy Market! warmly Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems Brisbane, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
Brian Cummiskey wrote: I've been using View Larger Image. something like this: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= /br /View Larger Image/a Good discussion. :) Let's introduce a new slant to this: what happens if there are 16 thumbnail images in a gallery (4 up, 4 across)? Are you going to write: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= / br /View Larger Image/a ...16 times? You *CANNOT* expect that the title attribute will be voiced by a screen reader, as this is directly affected by the verbosity setting established by the end user. If a power user sets verbosity to minimal (Advanced in JAWS, which has I believe 3 settings: Beginner, intermediate and advanced, with granular options on top of that such as Words Include Symbols - see the Freedom Scientific site for more details, and remember that this is *just* JAWS, there *are* other screen readers out there...)... At any rate, if they set it to advanced then JAWS usually does not read aloud the title attribute. So what you will have then, when bringing up a list of links on the page, is 16 unique links with the identical link text - hardly user-friendly or accessible. One way around this would be to announce prior to the image array to Click on any image to view a larger version (or similar). Another way, if the image is being populated via a database, would be to echo back the unique image name as part of the link text; this way, each link has unique text associated to it: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= / br /?php echo $imagetitle; ? - Larger Image/a ...for example. Placing the image title first in the link text will eliminate the annoying array of 16 unique links all starting with the same words, useful when the user orders the links alphabetically. Just some more to think about... Oh, for the most part, while avoiding the phrase Click may seem to be politically correct, it has become so common that even non-sighted users get it - it's like my blind friends saying see you later: no harm, no foul. Cheers! JF *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
Hi, Yes, having mnore than one link with the same link-text but different href URL breaks fundamental accessibility guidelines. However, in this case, where there is also an image (with alt text) inside the link, would not the link text for a screenreader become: XXX View Larger image where XXX is different for each link? Then, the text for each link is unique and accessible. Stuart On Wed, April 18, 2007 11:29 pm, John Foliot wrote: Brian Cummiskey wrote: I've been using View Larger Image. something like this: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= /br /View Larger Image/a Good discussion. :) Let's introduce a new slant to this: what happens if there are 16 thumbnail images in a gallery (4 up, 4 across)? Are you going to write: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= / br /View Larger Image/a ...16 times? You *CANNOT* expect that the title attribute will be voiced by a screen reader, as this is directly affected by the verbosity setting established by the end user. If a power user sets verbosity to minimal (Advanced in JAWS, which has I believe 3 settings: Beginner, intermediate and advanced, with granular options on top of that such as Words Include Symbols - see the Freedom Scientific site for more details, and remember that this is *just* JAWS, there *are* other screen readers out there...)... At any rate, if they set it to advanced then JAWS usually does not read aloud the title attribute. So what you will have then, when bringing up a list of links on the page, is 16 unique links with the identical link text - hardly user-friendly or accessible. One way around this would be to announce prior to the image array to Click on any image to view a larger version (or similar). Another way, if the image is being populated via a database, would be to echo back the unique image name as part of the link text; this way, each link has unique text associated to it: a href=large.jpg title=larger detail image of img src=small.jpg alt= / br /?php echo $imagetitle; ? - Larger Image/a ...for example. Placing the image title first in the link text will eliminate the annoying array of 16 unique links all starting with the same words, useful when the user orders the links alphabetically. Just some more to think about... Oh, for the most part, while avoiding the phrase Click may seem to be politically correct, it has become so common that even non-sighted users get it - it's like my blind friends saying see you later: no harm, no foul. Cheers! JF *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
Hi, Know Thy Market is fine for usability (as far it goes). But, for accessibility, this is not sufficient. It's not just internet newbs who aren't able to use this mousey thing. Stuart On Wed, April 18, 2007 10:15 pm, Lea de Groot wrote: On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:54:22 +1000, Raena Jackson Armitage wrote: Using something more direct, like View larger image or Send us a message just flows better as written text. Exactly how to approach this depends on your audience. If your market is largely internet newbs, who aren't yet cofident with this mousey-thing they push around with their hand - gently walk them through it with 'click here to view a larger image' If your market is seasoned web standards developers 'larger image' is probably sufficient. ;) There is no one hard and fast rule - Know Thy Market! warmly Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems Brisbane, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
It's a nice idea, this know your market thing, and I'm sure it's appropriate in a commercial context, but our market is *everyone*. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lea de Groot Sent: Thursday, 19 April 2007 7:16 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click? On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:54:22 +1000, Raena Jackson Armitage wrote: Using something more direct, like View larger image or Send us a message just flows better as written text. Exactly how to approach this depends on your audience. If your market is largely internet newbs, who aren't yet cofident with this mousey-thing they push around with their hand - gently walk them through it with 'click here to view a larger image' If your market is seasoned web standards developers 'larger image' is probably sufficient. ;) There is no one hard and fast rule - Know Thy Market! warmly Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems Brisbane, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:45:45 +1000, John Horner wrote: It's a nice idea, this know your market thing, and I'm sure it's appropriate in a commercial context, but our market is *everyone*. (The ABC, for the non-.au based, is the major government broadcasting arm) Yes, it is, so you would be justified in 'dumbing it down' for the next decade, at least, IMHO. But, for the majority of developers, there is a market that visits their website, and they should have a strong understanding of it. warmly, Lea ~ nice work in the Rural area, btw :) -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems Brisbane, Australia *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
On 19/4/07 8:29 AM, John Foliot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] One way around this would be to announce prior to the image array to Click on any image to view a larger version (or similar). This is the solution that I've (eventually) arrived at for most image galleries - just a simple line of text above the gallery itself explaining what you need to do. The images themselves or their captions are then left alone to function as intended. -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ # This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by MailMarshal # This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. You must not disclose or use the information in this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately and delete the e-mail and all copies. The College does not guarantee that this e-mail is virus or error free. The attached files are provided and may only be used on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for any loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from the use of the attached files, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. The content and opinions in this e-mail are not necessarily those of the College. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
On 4/19/07, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly how to approach this depends on your audience. If your market is largely internet newbs, who aren't yet cofident with this mousey-thing they push around with their hand - gently walk them through it with 'click here to view a larger image' Sure, but how many do you think that is, realistically? Learning about how to follow links is one of the first things you get to know. If your market is seasoned web standards developers 'larger image' is probably sufficient. ;) I suspect you'll find there's a lot more than just 'seasoned developers' who know that clicking a link will do something. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] What do we say if we don't say click?
This is getting a bit off track, isn't it? The original post was concerned about the assumption that a user is using a mouse at all. For accessibility, it's a good idea to include a description within the link of exactly what it's linking to. Larger Image is not very descriptive. Larger image of what? Click here, is a bit silly in any link. If you're using the web, the assumption is that clicking (Or whatever method you use to follow links) is what you do. It's like posting a sign in front of a restaurant Walk inside to get food. It is a known, and there's no need to explain it again and again unless it is not visually or semantically obvious that it is a link at all. What the sign on the restaurant needs to say (if it is not obvious) that it's a restaurant, what type of restaurant it is, and if the architect did their job, it should be obvious where the door to the restaurant is, and what to do with it. Likewise for links. Quoting Raena Jackson Armitage [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 4/19/07, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly how to approach this depends on your audience. If your market is largely internet newbs, who aren't yet cofident with this mousey-thing they push around with their hand - gently walk them through it with 'click here to view a larger image' Sure, but how many do you think that is, realistically? Learning about how to follow links is one of the first things you get to know. If your market is seasoned web standards developers 'larger image' is probably sufficient. ;) I suspect you'll find there's a lot more than just 'seasoned developers' who know that clicking a link will do something. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
