RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Design to Web accessibility standards and you remove all the clutter that can get in the way of bots traversing your site and also include information that they might otherwise miss (e.g. through alt attributes). The easier it is to find keywords the better your ranking for them. Stuart On Fri, March 7, 2008 4:15 am, Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Steinacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Friday, 7 March 2008 1:36 PM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction I don't really understand your question. On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the SEO issues in web standards? Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Keith Steinacher wrote: What I meant by 1 set fee was I'll get you top rankings on all search engines and fix all your woes for $99.99!! Charging by the page or per hour (as I do it) is more legitimate. Some projects you can't really charge by the page though. I have one client who's site has 600,000 pages or more. I'm not going to go through it page by page. At that point it becomes necessary to make the SEO of a site more dynamic. While anyone can learn how to do SEO from a book or an online class, it doesn't necessary mean that they can take your site (of any size) and make it number 1 for a canned fee. Anyone that tells you that is not to be trusted. On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 6:07 PM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/4/08, *Keith Steinacher* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn't pay much attention to anyone that says they can solve all of your site's problems for 1 set fee. why not? i charge by the page and do the seo myself. there's a free class at: http://www.gnc-web-creations.com/seo-optimization.htm dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky
RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi, Search robots are essentially blind users. Design to Web accessibility standards and you remove all the clutter that can get in the way of bots traversing your site and also include information that they might otherwise miss (e.g. through alt attributes). The easier it is to find keywords the better your ranking for them. Stuart On Fri, March 7, 2008 4:15 am, Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Michael, I suspect that there is some connection. Taken broadly, if SEO is done badly (i.e. SEO optimised templates produced without a lot of thought and keyword over-rich content) then it certainly gets in the way of the basic business of human beings filling a human need - and if that is not what web standards are trying to guarantee, then I'm not sure what they are :) Cheers, Andrew Andrew Boyd Consultant SMS Management Technology M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 7 March 2008 2:53 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction Not trying to infer anything. I really was wondering how standard affect SEO. I tend to focus on content and using keywords in the natural presentation of the page info and strongly looking for sites that can interconnect legitimately. But didn't know how or if web standards played a part in this or not. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Andrew Boyd wrote: Hi Keith, I suspect that Michael may be inferring that SEO is not a fit and proper subject for the WSG list. I'm happy either way - it isn't strictly web standards per se, but neither is IE8 Beta's underperformance, and I am glad to learn about both without subscribing to other lists. Moderaptor call I guess :) Cheers, Andrew *Andrew Boyd *Consultant *SMS Management Technology* M 0413 048 542 T +61 2 6279 7100 F +61 2 6279 7101 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *About SMS: *Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT ACT 2609 www.smsmt.com https://magellan.smsmt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.smsmt.com/ SMS Management Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform business through Consulting, People and Technology - *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
On Mar 7, 2008, at 1:18 AM, Michael MD wrote: when I look at the server logs here I still see almost as many IE6 users as IE7 users. This prompted me to look back at our logs (US public library: 10 branches, about a million circulating items, and in a town with a large state university - the students may heavily skew the stats) Jan 2008 IE7 - 47.2% IE6 - 25.4% IE5 - 1% FF - 22% Safari - 2.8% Feb 2008 IE7 - 48.9% IE6 - 22.7% IE5 - 1% FF - 22.8% Safari - 2.9% Mar 2008 (to date) IE7 - 58.6% IE6 - 15.4% IE5 - 1% FF - 21.4% Safari - 2.9% So here at least the decline in IE6 usage is quite significant, and if the trend continues, has been handily overtaken by FF! Good news for me, at least... FWIW Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] IE8 news
I use XP on two different corporate networks. Both have auto-update blocked, and will remain on IE6 for the foreseeable future. I don't think this is uncommon, but we will need to wait and see. Until now, the general practice appears to be to support the latest two versions of IE, but I think for a while it is going to have to be three - my prediction is that IE7 will disappear faster than IE6 does! Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
Hello Mike, I agree with you. There's a lot of users still working in obsolete machines or/by option, browsing with IE6. I think IE7 was a transition state to the web standards rendering, like Windows Me was to 98 from 2000. Microsoft likes to do things like that... I do believe that IE7 will fade away more faster than IE6, and that's my worry... We will still have to spend time debugging, now for 3 different browsers... I really hope that IE8 official release came out without grotesque problems or we'll have to deal with IE9, very soon... Let's wait and see! Best Regards from sunny Brazil, Aleagi . On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use XP on two different corporate networks. Both have auto-update blocked, and will remain on IE6 for the foreseeable future. I don't think this is uncommon, but we will need to wait and see. Until now, the general practice appears to be to support the latest two versions of IE, but I think for a while it is going to have to be three - my prediction is that IE7 will disappear faster than IE6 does! Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Online Survey Consultation Tools
Hello everyone, We are currently researching and evaluating tools for both online consultation and online surveys for our public website and intranet. If you are currently researching tools for online consultation and/or online surveys, which tool(s) are you considering and why? If your website currently uses either of these tools, could you please respond to the following questions: 1. What tool(s) do you use to conduct (a) online consultations; and/or (b) online surveys? 2. Is the tool(s) hosted on your Internet and/or Intranet? 3. Would you recommend the tool(s)? Why or why not? 4. Do you manage the consultation/survey process (design, moderation, analysis, etc) in-house or with external consultants? If externally, with whom? 5 . Please provide a contact name email for someone with whom we could follow-up if necessary. Thanks so much for taking the time to provide your comments! Warm Regards, Mark Faul This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you. Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de la Ville d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
Michael MD wrote: when I look at the server logs here I still see almost as many IE6 users as IE7 users. (the server logs are from a public events/nightlife website which gets a pretty diverse range of people visiting it) The following stats (representing 15694 users of all kinds) are for a site which has only been around for four and a half months, so the results are 'topical': MSIE 75911 48.28% MSIE 63625 29.61% Firefox 2 9.07% AOL 9977 7.98% Safari340 2.78% Mozilla 159 0.48% Other/Unknown58 0.47% MSIE 536 0.29% Firefox 1.528 0.23% Netscape 426 0.21% Opera 918 0.15% Flock 110 0.08% Firefox 110 0.08% Mobile Phones7 0.06% Firefox 36 0.05% AOL 84 0.03% PDAs4 0.03% Konqueror 33 0.02% AOL 62 0.02% iPhone2 0.02% Safari 32 0.02% Playstation 31 0.01% Netscape 31 0.01% Netscape 71 0.01% PlayStation Portable1 0.01% AOL 71 0.01% Interesting! Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
aleagi skrev: Hello Mike, I agree with you. There's a lot of users still working in obsolete machines or/by option, browsing with IE6. That would be all of my colleagues - and me if I want to access the intranet for our town. It won't work in MSIE 7 (and hence not in MSIE 8 with any switch.) I carry around FFox on a USB stick to avoid this nightmare. Yes, I've complained. I have written about it in our local paper. I have pleaded. I have done everything in my power. What do the brainiacs at the IT department answer. We don't see this as a problem. IE 6 works. As long as all sites work in IE6/7 and some intranets won't work in any other, we are stuck. Let's do break the web - free from bad browsers! Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Navigation menu problem
Hi All,
Im having a problem getting a menu to look right in IE6, it can be found at
http://darkvirus.homeip.net/~darkness/h2/new/
IE7 and FF seem fine but IE6 seems to put a margin under each link and I
cant seem to get rid of it (IE8 only seem to change the background colour
when the mouse is over the text or border which I put on earlier).
To save you looking through the source the relevant css is
#nav
{
float: left;
width: 195px;
margin: 0 0 10px 0;
text-align: center;
}
#nav ul
{
list-style-type: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 10px auto;
background: #f2edf6;
width: 175px;
border: 1px solid #7d50a6;
text-align: left;
}
#nav li
{
font-size: 13px;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}
#nav li a
{
display: block;
padding: 5px;
text-decoration: none;
font-weight: bold;
color: #7d50a6;
background: #f2edf6;
margin: 0;
}
#nav li a:hover
{
text-decoration: underline;
background: #dccce9;
}
PS. Any general comments or recommendations on the site are greatly welcome.
Thanks
Kevin
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Re: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
hello,
Study this one http://www.brunildo.org/test/IEWlispace.phpThere are a lot of
combinations, fast dirty hack would be to give li's hasLayout
li{zoom:1}
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Kevin Arrowsmith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi All,
Im having a problem getting a menu to look right in IE6, it can be found
at http://darkvirus.homeip.net/~darkness/h2/new/
IE7 and FF seem fine but IE6 seems to put a margin under each link and I
cant seem to get rid of it (IE8 only seem to change the background colour
when the mouse is over the text or border which I put on earlier).
To save you looking through the source the relevant css is
#nav
{
float: left;
width: 195px;
margin: 0 0 10px 0;
text-align: center;
}
#nav ul
{
list-style-type: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 10px auto;
background: #f2edf6;
width: 175px;
border: 1px solid #7d50a6;
text-align: left;
}
#nav li
{
font-size: 13px;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}
#nav li a
{
display: block;
padding: 5px;
text-decoration: none;
font-weight: bold;
color: #7d50a6;
background: #f2edf6;
margin: 0;
}
#nav li a:hover
{
text-decoration: underline;
background: #dccce9;
}
PS. Any general comments or recommendations on the site are greatly
welcome.
Thanks
Kevin
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--
С уважением,
Юрий akella Артюх,
UA WEB http://uaweb.in.ua,
http://cssing.org.ua
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Re: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
Heloo there,
Try this:
* html #nav li a {
height: 1%;
}
I guess this can do the trick.
Best Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
Nosce te ipsum
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Kevin Arrowsmith
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi All,
Im having a problem getting a menu to look right in IE6, it can be found at
http://darkvirus.homeip.net/~darkness/h2/new/
IE7 and FF seem fine but IE6 seems to put a margin under each link and I
cant seem to get rid of it (IE8 only seem to change the background colour
when the mouse is over the text or border which I put on earlier).
To save you looking through the source the relevant css is
#nav
{
float: left;
width: 195px;
margin: 0 0 10px 0;
text-align: center;
}
#nav ul
{
list-style-type: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 10px auto;
background: #f2edf6;
width: 175px;
border: 1px solid #7d50a6;
text-align: left;
}
#nav li
{
font-size: 13px;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}
#nav li a
{
display: block;
padding: 5px;
text-decoration: none;
font-weight: bold;
color: #7d50a6;
background: #f2edf6;
margin: 0;
}
#nav li a:hover
{
text-decoration: underline;
background: #dccce9;
}
PS. Any general comments or recommendations on the site are greatly welcome.
Thanks
Kevin
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RE: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Arrowsmith
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:50 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
Hi All,
Im having a problem getting a menu to look right in IE6, it can be found
at http://darkvirus.homeip.net/~darkness/h2/new/
IE7 and FF seem fine but IE6 seems to put a margin under each link and I
cant seem to get rid of it (IE8 only seem to change the background colour
when the mouse is over the text or border which I put on earlier).
For ie8 try this:
/*/ #nav a {position:relative;} /**/
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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RE: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: 07 March 2008 22:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Arrowsmith
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:50 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
Hi All,
Im having a problem getting a menu to look right in IE6, it can be found
at http://darkvirus.homeip.net/~darkness/h2/new/
IE7 and FF seem fine but IE6 seems to put a margin under each link and I
cant seem to get rid of it (IE8 only seem to change the background colour
when the mouse is over the text or border which I put on earlier).
For ie8 try this:
/*/ #nav a {position:relative;} /**/
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Thanks guys,
* html #nav li a {
height: 1%;
}
Solved the IE6 problem and /*/ #nav a {position:relative;} /**/ fixed the
IE8 problem
Thanks
Kevin
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Re: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
/*/ #nav a {position:relative;} /**/
Thierry, will this be seen only by IE8?
8 марта 2008, в 00:31, Thierry Koblentz написал(а):
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Arrowsmith
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:50 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
Hi All,
Im having a problem getting a menu to look right in IE6, it can be
found
at http://darkvirus.homeip.net/~darkness/h2/new/
IE7 and FF seem fine but IE6 seems to put a margin under each link
and I
cant seem to get rid of it (IE8 only seem to change the background
colour
when the mouse is over the text or border which I put on earlier).
For ie8 try this:
/*/ #nav a {position:relative;} /**/
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
***
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RE: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ?
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:22 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Navigation menu problem
/*/ #nav a {position:relative;} /**/
Thierry, will this be seen only by IE8?
It should, but we should also expect to see that parsing bug fixed in a
future release.
Let's hope MS fixes the real issue before that bug so we have a filter in
the mean time...
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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[WSG] Firefox developer toolbar
I hope this is not off topic. I have the web developer toolbar working great with Firefox 2.x. Does the web developer toolbar support Firefox 3.0 beta 3? Angus MacKinnon Infoforce Services http:ééwww.infoforce-services.com It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible. George Washington *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 news
Hey, I've been watching some of the IE8 conversations. I got it just yesterday and tried it. While it may pass the Acid2 test flawlessly (and only be a beta) it takes up /masses/ of memory. My computer isn't exactly a dinosaur but it still paused whilst trying to type using IE8. How powerful a computer is recommended anyway? However considering the problems with IE in the past I'd say I can live with that. IceKat (blog IE8 review at: http://aldonasweblounge.net/blog) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
