RE: [WSG] Accessibility testing
Jon, I submitted the tool on the accessify forum for comment. http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13098 Some interesting comments there. Mike. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Foskett, Mike Sent: 17 February 2009 12:03 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Accessibility testing http://faetest.dres.uiuc.edu I'm totally shocked, that tool is actually quite good. If I get time later I'll run it through a few problematic sites and compare against manual reviewed reports. Mike Foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jon Gunderson Sent: 16 February 2009 17:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility testing You can try the Illinois Functional Web Accessibility Evaluator service. It is a free service, no cost to create an account. http://faetest.dres.uiuc.edu This is the Candidate release 1, that hopefully be our production version available later this week. Please let me know what you think of it. Jon On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Henrik Madsen hen...@igenerator.com.au wrote: Hi all, I'm wrapping up a Government agency website. They have reams of design and usability standards. Some pretty pointless; others very valid - but no problem. Re. accessibility, they use ACTF aDesigner. http://www.eclipse.org/actf/downloads/tools/aDesigner/index.php And our scores against WCAG v1.0 Level A could apparently be improved. They have provided scores for star rating, compliance, navigability and listenability. Now, here's the thing. This software is only for PC. I'm Mac. Not very accessible eh? :) What similar software / online systems do people use and get reliable results (if reliable results are indeed attainable)? TIA. Henrik Henrik Madsen Generator hen...@igenerator.com.au www.igenerator.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco. Tesco Stores Limited Company Number: 519500 Registered in England Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Semantics: Microformats, RDFa
There seem to be some Microformats proponents on the list, but I don't recall much mention of RDFa. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on their relative merits, both immediately and in the longer term? Thanks, Andrew Maben www.andrewmaben.net and...@andrewmaben.com In a well designed user interface, the user should not need instructions. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics: Microformats, RDFa
On 27/2/09 16:12, Andrew Maben wrote: There seem to be some Microformats proponents on the list, but I don't recall much mention of RDFa. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on their relative merits, both immediately and in the longer term? It might be helpful if you described the problem you're hoping to solve with either, but anyway here are some thoughts under four headings. + Parser interoperability I don't have first-hand experience with implementing a parser, but I suspect how XHTML+RDFa should be parsed into RDF triples is better specified than how HTML4 and XHTML1 microformats should be parsed into data. The microformats community is still working on parsing specs, but the XHTML+RDFa standard includes parsing specs: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#s_rdfaindetail http://microformats.org/wiki/parsing + HTML compatibility You are supposed to be able to express microformats in conforming HTML 4.01 as well as XHTML 1.x. This has been partially achieved in the sense that no microformat requires you to write HTML 4.01 that does not meet its SGML validity requirements, though some accepted microformat patterns do (arguably, at least) abuse HTML4 elements and attributes. By contrast, RDFa has only been specified for XHTML. However, Internet Explorer - the most popular browser - does not support XHTML. The guidance for how authors should serve XHTML family documents as text/html is still being written (by the XHTML 2 WG): http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml-media-types Worse, there is no standard yet for how RDFa should be treated when served as text/html rather than XML. This will be defined by the HTML WG/WHATWG, who are working on the next version of the HTML standard and are currently unpersuaded of the need to support RDFa: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ http://www.whatwg.org/ http://tinyurl.com/bbx75q [public-h...@w3.org archives] http://tinyurl.com/akjzm3 [wha...@whatwg.org archives] + Accessibility Microformats create minor accessibility problems when you need to include machine-parseable data that is equivalent or supplementary to human-friendly visible information. The microformats community is still working on better approaches to including such information. http://www.webstandards.org/2007/04/27/haccessibility/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml http://microformats.org/wiki/machine-data RDFa does not create the same problems, because it adds extension points for this purpose (the content attribute on every element, primarily). http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#rdfa-attributes + Distributed extensibility You can unilaterally make up your own vocabulary in RDFa, but not microformats, which must be developed and standardized through the microformats community process. (Of course, you can make up markup patterns that can be used to extract metadata - but those aren't official microformats.) Whether this is good or bad perhaps depends on how widely useful your vocabulary would be. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] seeking JavaScript Bible comments
Den 2009-02-09 03:02, Joseph Taylor skrev: I wouldn't worry about document.write examples too much. You just need to keep in mind that the book is designed to teach the language from scratch, and quite possibly the reader hasn't scripted before. Starting from point zero, document.write is a good way to get started learning and making things happen fast. I'll guess that the Bible-series programming books aren't necessarily considering standardistas. An exceptionally late reply, since I've been incredibly busy the last month... The problem with using document.write or some other bad practice in an example is that the code tend to be used in real solutions. Students (and real developers) often search for the first solution that works. Simple examples of how to use e.g. a control structure can be illustrated using console.log() or the JavaScript shell, even window.alert() is preferable. I taught complete newbies JavaScript last semester. The very first thing I did was showing them the console in Firebug. (The computers at school do not have Opera or a webkit based browser installed, but I told the they have got similar tools.) Using Firebug for my examples was a huge timesaver when showing how the syntax or built in objects work, compared to using any technique that relies on document.write. There simply is no need for it any longer. Lars Gunther *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously
The Webkit Framework is installed within the installation directory? On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Brett Patterson inspiron.patters...@gmail.com wrote: You might could try the custom installation when installing and then creating and naming a different folder in your Program Files folder...name it something different than the currently installed Safari browser's folder... -- Brett P. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously
I got fed up trying to deal with multiple browser issues. First you have the issues with IE6 in MultipleIE, now this. Anyway, I just use VMs. Very pain-free. - James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously
You might could try the custom installation when installing and then creating and naming a different folder in your Program Files folder...name it something different than the currently installed Safari browser's folder... -- Brett P. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Gregorio Espadas gespa...@gmail.comwrote: Hi folks... I want to install Safari 4 in Microsoft Windows for testing pourposes, but I don't want to dismiss Safari 3.2. I've been searching for a solution (installing Safari 4 without affect the current installation of Safari 3.2), but I didn't find anything. I find out that the Safari 4 installation updates the Webkit Framework, not only the browser itself... so, I guess installing in a different folder won't work. I'm aware that Safari 4 includes a User Agent changer, but I guess this tool is not for rendering, only for masquerade in order to use certain webapps. Any one knows how to accomplish this goal? I'll appreciate any suggestion. Gregorio Espadas *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari 4 and 3.2 Running Simultaneously
Hi, You could run a nightly build: http://nightly.webkit.org/ If you find out what build the 4 Beta is, you can get that (or the nearest) build from the Windows build archive at: http://nightly.webkit.org/builds/trunk/win/1 HTH, Nick. On Thu, February 26, 2009 2:30 pm, Gregorio Espadas wrote: Hi folks... I want to install Safari 4 in Microsoft Windows for testing pourposes, but I don't want to dismiss Safari 3.2. I've been searching for a solution (installing Safari 4 without affect the current installation of Safari 3.2), but I didn't find anything. I find out that the Safari 4 installation updates the Webkit Framework, not only the browser itself... so, I guess installing in a different folder won't work. I'm aware that Safari 4 includes a User Agent changer, but I guess this tool is not for rendering, only for masquerade in order to use certain webapps. Any one knows how to accomplish this goal? I'll appreciate any suggestion. Gregorio Espadas *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4
daniel wrote: it would be much more interesting to discuss IE8's compliance again. All compliant sites that I've made render fine in Safari 3 4 and FIrefox 3 but always fail to work 100% on IE... It isn't about standard compliance for your sites, but which standard IE8 is limited to - CSS 2.1 pretty much... http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc351024(VS.85).aspx Trying to do anything more advanced in IE8, is doomed to failure. Add a few bugs - surprisingly few for the average site, and you may as well roll your design back a bit. Test in earlier Gecko and WebKit versions too, as many browsers in regular use use those older engines. side note: I've been using Safari 4 for a couple of days and I absolutely love it - it loads and renders pages much faster than FF and JS intensive pages are faster then ever - besides, who really uses Opera anyway?! :-) Nothing but! I'll leave further commenting to someone who knows more... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/molly_1_25.html ...and Safari 4 beta will be put through a round of thorough tests too... http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/molly_1_26.html ...while we're waiting for the finals. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4
sorry to have passed along misinformation regarding which was the first browser to pass the Acid 3 Test. It still passes the test very very well, and is a decent benchmark to address the original question. On Feb 26, 2009, at 6:34 AM, Dyre Hult wrote: Opera 10 was unveiled already last year and do pass the web standards Acid 3 test. Safari 4 was unveiled this month. Both browsers are still in the dev stage, so I reckon Mr. Andrew Lyle was misinformed. http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/presto-2-2-and-opera-10-a-first-look/ Todd Budnikas wrote: according to Mr. Andrew Lyle: Safari 4 is the first web browser to pass the web standards Acid 3 test which demonstrates how well a browser adheres to CSS, javascript, XML and SVG. So, i'd say it's handling them pretty well :) http://acid3.acidtests.org/ On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Kevin Erickson wrote: Hi, Anyone know about how the new Safari Beta 4 is handling the current standards of the Web? Thanks, Kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] E-commerce
Hi, Does anyone have input on what is a good Web standards e-commerce solution? Thanks, Kevin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1969 - Release Date: 2/24/2009 6:43 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4
Thank you Sent from my Centro Wireless Device. -Original Message- From: Todd Budnikas to...@missiondata.com Subj: Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4 Date: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:23 pm Size: 4K To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org according to Mr. Andrew Lyle:Safari 4 is the first web browser to pass the web standards Acid 3 test which demonstrates how well a browser adheres to CSS, javascript, XML and SVG. So, i'd say it's handling them pretty well :) http://acid3.acidtests.org/ On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Kevin Erickson wrote: Hi, Anyone know about how the new Safari Beta 4 is handling the current standards of the Web? Thanks, Kevin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1969 - Release Date: 2/24/2009 6:43 AM *** List Guidelines:http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org*** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Safari Beta 4
dude! You not on a mac? See you next week! Dave Citect Turner From: Levell Rampono lev...@pro-perspective.com Sent: 26 February 2009 15:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Safari Beta 4 Handling it very, very well and I'm running on a PC! From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Todd Budnikas Sent: Thursday, 26 February 2009 3:07 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4 according to Mr. Andrew Lyle: Safari 4 is the first web browser to pass the web standards Acid 3 test which demonstrates how well a browser adheres to CSS, javascript, XML and SVG. So, i'd say it's handling them pretty well :) http://acid3.acidtests.org/ On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Kevin Erickson wrote: Hi, Anyone know about how the new Safari Beta 4 is handling the current standards of the Web? Thanks, Kevin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1969 - Release Date: 2/24/2009 6:43 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Safari Beta 4
Handling it very, very well and I'm running on a PC! From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Todd Budnikas Sent: Thursday, 26 February 2009 3:07 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Safari Beta 4 according to Mr. Andrew Lyle: Safari 4 is the first web browser to pass the web standards Acid 3 test which demonstrates how well a browser adheres to CSS, javascript, XML and SVG. So, i'd say it's handling them pretty well :) http://acid3.acidtests.org/ On Feb 25, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Kevin Erickson wrote: Hi, Anyone know about how the new Safari Beta 4 is handling the current standards of the Web? Thanks, Kevin No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1969 - Release Date: 2/24/2009 6:43 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
