Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty
On 16/4/09 05:56, Gary Barber wrote:
Now it is
h#{
left: -px;
}
that had issues with screen readers.
Interesting. Not in my experience.
What screen readers and versions are you talking about? Do you have
a test case that demonstrates the problem?
I'd agree with Benjamin.
Roger Hudson and I conduced research several years ago across a range
of users and assistive devices (various versions of JAWS and Window-
Eyes) and documented the results [1]. Part of this project included
testing "structural labels" that were hidden from browsers using off-
left. We found the "off-left" method to be successful in all cases
(meaning that the relevant text was hidden from browsers but still
able to be read out by the various screen readers).
The method I used included "position":
position: absolute;
left: -500em;
[1] http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm
Of course, we'd all prefer to use the correct method, which is
"display:none" - but we have not been able to use this due to issues
with earlier versions of JAWS (content set to "display: none" was not
read aloud by these screen readers) - negatively affecting the very
people we were trying to assist. :(
Thanks
Russ
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Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty
From: "Gary Barber"
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
On 16/4/09 05:56, Gary Barber wrote:
Now it is
h#{
left: -px;
}
that had issues with screen readers.
Interesting. Not in my experience.
this may have improved with the browsers and readers (as happens), but
when in was popular, years ago, I do distinctly remember running into this
issue time and time again with testing. hence why text-indent is the
preferred, if not the best all round option.
Mind you we shouldn't develop to the latest in software as a good number
of people with accessibility issues do not have the latest equipment.
Hi Gary,
We test extensively with JAWS, current at v10, but we have test notes back
to v5. Sending content off-screen via position or indent was never an issue.
Perhaps you thinking of "display" or "visibility".
--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
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Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
On 16/4/09 05:56, Gary Barber wrote:
Now it is
h#{
left: -px;
}
that had issues with screen readers.
Interesting. Not in my experience.
What screen readers and versions are you talking about? Do you have a
test case that demonstrates the problem?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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this may have improved with the browsers and readers (as happens), but
when in was popular, years ago, I do distinctly remember running into
this issue time and time again with testing. hence why text-indent is
the preferred, if not the best all round option.
Mind you we shouldn't develop to the latest in software as a good number
of people with accessibility issues do not have the latest equipment.
--
Gary Barber
User Experience Designer/ Web Architect
Web: radharc.com.au
blog: manwithnoblog.com
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Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty
On 16/4/09 05:56, Gary Barber wrote:
Now it is
h#{
left: -px;
}
that had issues with screen readers.
Interesting. Not in my experience.
What screen readers and versions are you talking about? Do you have a
test case that demonstrates the problem?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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Re: [WSG] SEO and headers order
Hi guys, Just to clarify. Google reads the sourcecode. In the order the sourcecode is presented. Of course you can reposition with css. That doesn't change the order of the sourcecode. Google doesn't generally request the CSS file (check your logs) - unless other flags are indicated (e.g positioning text off page, display: none etc) so it had no idea of column display rendering. Web Standards is Content= X/HTML; presentation = CSS; behaviour etc I've done the SEO on some of the biggest publisher/ ecommerce sites in Australia, over the past 8 years, and have never seen a Google issue with css repositioning in a 2 or 3 column layout. Check most newspaper etc sites. Here's a really old example - my personal hobby site. Google: Austin Healey 3000 and view the cache of the site http://www.myaustinhealey.com. Then look at the 'text only version' in the Google cache. It's a really old 3 column css layout from 2002. Centre column first in the source. I'd post the cache links, but I'm sending this from an iPhone, and I'm still waiting for 'cut and paste' functionality Sigh. Chris www.cogentis.com.au On 15/04/2009, at 7:10 PM, Jason Grant wrote: All these things are 'within reason'. I have seen SEO agencies advise putting the main content immediately after and then repositioning everything else with CSS into right places. This is likely not to be possible on some designs and Google is smart enough to sift through the initial junk on the page to get through to the main content also. There's another argument that says that your main navigation help Google index other pages on the site, so if you are putting that after the main content you are making deeper indexing of your site a little harder for Google, as it has to do more work to follow the links. Hence nothing is black and white here. Perhaps you should try both solutions for a while and see if it makes a difference. If you can't be bothered, I would go with 'regular source order', whatever that is for your site. Thanks, Jason PS: Also, if you need more SEO advice let me know. On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Rob Enslin wrote: Hi Caleb, I might be wrong but anecdotal evidence suggests order is not an 'issue' for bots scanning your site. I'm other words by in large so long as your code is structured correctly your , etc will be indexed appropriately. The only caveat/exception is non-valid code. Also, long, heavy and bloated code where important tag info is burried way down the page, can impact on indexability - stuff that's simply not best practice. -- rob // Rob Enslin // twitter.com/robenslin On 15 Apr 2009, at 06:21, Caleb Wong wrote: Hi, I have a SEO question regarding how search engines scans a website. Say for example if I have a site where it has a 3 column layout. Column left and column right appears before the middle column area, and within column left, right there are h2, h3 tags; within the middle column there is a h1 tag. The source code goes something like this... So would search engines pick up on the h1 header that appears at the bottom of the page, or picks up on the first header (regardless its weight) it sees. Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Jason Grant BSc, MSc CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. www.flexewebs.com ja...@flexewebs.com +44 (0)7748 591 770 Company no.: 5587469 www.twitter.com/flexewebs www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] My Site Background Image and css
Personally Marvin if I was you, I would stick to plain, vanilla HTML without any graphics or styling. The navigation on that site is so small it's difficult to read. Graphics and styling are a big issue for you as you are blind, so there is no point in trying to defeat the impossible. Just focus on getting your content and pages sorted. 2009/4/15 Marvin Hunkin > HI. > if you visit http://tracs.co.nz/marvin > and a sighted friend, helping me out. > but he says that i have a image with a layover background. > can any one take a look and help me out? > how to do this in css, as a blind web developer, and cannot edit graphics > using a screen reader like jaws for windows from freedom scientific > http://www.freedomscientific.com > can any one take a look and help me out. > and also any other comments about the page. > and then once got the front page up and running, then can copy the source > code and edit my other pages for my site. > cheers Marvin. > E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com > MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com > Skype: startrekcafe > We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile! > Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One > > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > -- James Jeffery Web Developer and iPhone Applications Developer m: 07964722061 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
