Re: [WSG] IE Hack wrecks IE 5.01 design
An easier hack for versions of IE is:
#element
{
width: 100px; /* all browsers get */
width/**/: 80px; /* all except IE 5.0 get */
w\idth: 60px; /* all except IE 5.x get */
}
--
Cameron
W: www.themaninblue.com
--- Andreas Boehmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I just realised that the voice-family hack for IE
behaves not the way I
expect it in IE 5.01 (works fine in IE 5.5).
Unfortunately the site is live already, so hopefully
somebody can get me
on track quickly.
If you have a look at:
http://www.rmitenglishworldwide.com.au
You will notice that the menu in IE 5.01 is
slightly stuffed. This
seems to be due to the IE hack I used for the
widths. When I take the
hack out, it improves, but the widths are wrong. Put
the hack in and IE
5.01 completely ignores both, the width it is meant
to see and the width
it is not meant to see.
Here the link to the css:
http://www.rmitenglishworldwide.com.au/include/menu.css
Thanks guys!
Andreas Boehmer
User Experience Consultant
Phone: (03) 9417 0468
Mobile: (0411) 097 038
http://www.addictiveMedia.com.au
Consulting | Accessibility | Usability | Development
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Re: [WSG] Ten questions for John Allsopp
Trust soft Australian journalists not to ask the tough questions, such as how much drug consumption was going on backstage at WE04 prior to the WWWF smackdown. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- John Allsopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, Included in the more, by the way? This little nugget, dropped casually into an anecdote about rat's milk, the Simpsons and backpackers in internet cafes: So when I came to naming my blog, Sara, who by the time people read this will be my wife ... is it off-topic to say congratulations? I guess it is, but can I just point out that it hasn't quite happened yet, as the interview went out earlier than anticipated. Which is off topic, 'cept for the fact it is in a WSG interview with me ;-) Thanks, john John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 6 days of WSG meeting frenzy
Wait a minute! You guys get cake!? C'mon Dez, step up the catering! :o] -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:22:39 +1000, russ - maxdesign wrote: The three city WSG meetings have almost aligned, like some freaky astrological occurrence: Indeed - Brisbane goes first, on Wednesday! Could anyone who is planning on attending drop us a note, if you haven't already? You know how Vaughan hates having to eat all that extra cake if we overcater ;) I expect we'll also be discussing if we want to do a xmas get together - its almost that season! (Not already??) warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantics of Breadcrumb you are here links
Would you be able to enumerate each point in your reply? I wasn't able to follow the structure of it. Sincerely, -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: er, maybe it's my 'listless' disposition but why would you put a breadcrumb in a list? The usual gt; seperators seem ideal, and if you disable styles it is still a breadcrumb; what is the obsession with putting everything in a list? OK, I admit it... I am obsessed with lists and I hereby intend to use lists for EVERYTHING from now on - even if pointless and counter-productive: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/list-obsessed/ (view source) Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Zeroing default padding/margin
I think this is a strong argument for introducing this technique to others. The most oft-cited reason for not using semantic HTML is the perceived control that can be achieved by using tables/a lot of divs. By removing this mystery dimension from the size of elements, it could help people to become accustomed to styling semantic HTML. Personally, I remove margin-bottom from everything, because I like to use top margin/padding, as it prevents extra space at the end of sections. (And also various overflow problems in Opera) -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Andrew Krespanis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the cases I've seen - mostly on codingforums.com - beginners develop bad cases of 'class-itis' due to a fear of using tag name selectors. This encourages/forces them to address the elements immedietly and individually; hopefully causing a greater focus on semantics in the process. ie What content does this page have? What tags will I use? instead of Hmm... better use another div for this sentance. High hopes, I know :\ ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ol start attribute deprecated in XHTML 1.0 Strict and up.
I ran into this same problem the other, but forgot to research it. How, then, are we meant to start an ordered list at a number other than 1? -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was looking at some data of the form: AQUACULTURE 1. Scientists: Salmon Hatchery Policy Flawed (USA) 2. Fish Farms Seen Harming Dive Tourism (Malta) 3. Escaped Farmed Salmon Find Home (Alaska) COASTAL DEVELOPMENT 4. Mayor Casts Doubt Over Magnetic Is Report (Great Barrier Reef) 5. Hope for Maldives Rises from the Sea (Maldives) ...and looking at the how of doing that; ol start=4 type stuff and thought I'd check the specs as to how valid this is going forward. As usual the W3C docs were of little immediate help so a Google search turned up this: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2004-March/ 000255.html 1. The Transitional doctypes for HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.0 support the `start` attribute for `ol`, and a `value` attribute for `li`. You can use them like this: ol start=10 liTen/li liEleven/li li value=20Twenty/li /ol which renders like this: 10. Ten 11. Eleven 20. Twenty 2. The W3C deprecated both of these attributes; thus they're invalid in the Strict doctypes for HTML 4.01 or XHTML 1.0. A lot of experts consider this deprecation, especially the `value` attribute, a very bad decision on the part of the W3C. For example, [Tantek Çelik] [1]. [1]: http://tantek.com/log/2003/01.html#L20030102t0602 The basic idea behind attribute deprecation is that *presentational* attributes have been deprecated, because one should use CSS for presentation styling. But the `value` attribute for list items is not presentational, it specifies important information about the meaning of the list. Now I'm not using XHTML higher than 1.0 Transitional but I thought this was noteworthy ...if it is correct. For any of you using XHTML 1.0 Strict and up, it is possibly something that may influence your decision making. Nick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mac (Safari) rendering of colours
Thanks for the help everyone. It's a little easier to handle now I know it's a browser bug, not a platform issue. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:31 pm, Cameron Adams wrote: a Mac using a display of millions of colours (in Safari) renders the images in the main grey panel differently, thus creating a visible line on either side of the content. Whereas on PC it is seamless. It happens only in Safari on my Mac. Omniweb, which uses nearly the same rendering engine doesn't show the problem. And Firefox of IE or Opera7.5 are perfectly fine. With Omniweb, I can enable or disable the use of ColorSync, it doesn't make any difference on your site (images aren't coded to use Colorsync, it shouldn't make any difference anyway). Safari has serious problems with display of colours in images. It is really bad with PNG files - try to match a flat coloured 32bit PNG to the same HTML colour set in the stylesheets it can be ugly, the images are on average 10% darker. The only advice I can give: use all the same format - either jpeg or gif, don't mix in an environment as yours. Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] commonly used order of styles within a css class
If you think about it, ordering IDs in the order that they appear in the HTML goes against the grain of XHTML/CSS separation of content and style. If you change the position of an object in the HTML, then you have to change it in the CSS, otherwise your order becomes meaningless. The best way is to have an order independent of the HTML content, such as alphabetical. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Brian Duchek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm 100% with Andy on this one. My coding style (pun intended) usually falls into the source ordered approach (i.e. the ID selectors will be found in the CSS in the same order that they appear in the HTML document). I'll do grouping of helper classes as well, as I use them as sort of utilities. Within each class or selector statement, I'll let my editor (DW or Topstyle) place them for me. At most it ends up being 10 short lines of text, and easy enough to scan quickly and identify what's what. I do tend to put any hacks or unusual approaches at the bottom of the definition. Cheers! Brian Duchek www.inquiline.com On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 10:33:23 +0100, Andy Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sean wrote: Does anyone know if there is a common way of listing styles in CSS? I don't mean the order of a:hover a: visited, or the order of specification. I am thinking more of some logical order that would be helpful to anyone else working on stylesheets I have created. Are you meaning in a micro or macro sense. i.e. how to structure sets of statement within a stylesheet or how to structure a set of declarations within a statement? If it's the former there tend to be a couple of main ways. One is to group statements into logical types, such as all layout goes in one place, all text stuff in another. However I personally break this info into separate stylesheets as I find it easier to manage. Another popular way is to structure stylesheets based on selector type, so you may have all element selectors first, then all id's and lastly all classes. I can see the logic behind this but it's not something I favour. The way I tend to arrange statements is by position in the flow of the document. So I'll have all universal statements at the top, then statements relating to the header, nav, content and finally footer statements at the bottom. This works well for me, but I do often find that I'll need to add a new statement later that's the same of similar to one I already have. Rather than taking the original statement out and putting it up top with the universal statements, I tend just to tack a new selector on. This means that sometimes statements aren't always exactly matching the flow of the document. This is fine if you've only got one person working on the CSS, but would get confusing if you've got multiple people using the same file. As for arranging declarations within a statement, because statements don't tend to be so long, I generally don't have a format. I simply put them in the order I write them in. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Brian Duchek =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c: 847.809.2140 w: www.inquiline.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list of well constructed websites
http://www.webstandardsawards.com/ -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Roland Munyard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: motivated by the recent email about http://www.chevrolet.com is there an up to date list of well constructed websites that use CSS. - Roly __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites
Ah, I was under the impression that that was pertaining to Government sites. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cameron wrote: Did we resolve whether Australian legislation has the potential for similar effects? Have you forgotten Sydney Olympics web site, it was 4 years ago the Human Rights Commission awarded A$20,000 compensation in the Maguire vs. SOCOG case. You can find it all here: http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html Nick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ___ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites
Wow, that's big. Did we resolve whether Australian legislation has the potential for similar effects? -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com --- Ben Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 19 Aug 2004 - The Attorney General of New York has deemed parts of Ramada.com and Priceline.com inaccessible to assistive technology. The Attorney General opined that the Americans With Disabilities Act requires that private web sites be accessible to blind and visually impaired Internet users. Settlements reached will attempt to make both sites more accessible. Under the terms of the agreements, the companies will implement a range of accessibility standards authored by the Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), an organization that recommends Internet standards. The companies must also implement a wide variety of other initiatives, based on guidelines authored by the W3C. In addition to the steps outline above, Ramada.com and Priceline.com will pay the State of New York $40,000 and $37,500, respectively, as costs of the investigation. The Attorney General emphasized that once the companies were notified of the accessibility issues by his office, they worked cooperatively and creatively with his Internet Bureau to correct the issues. Attorney General's Press Release http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2004/aug/aug19a_04.html Sandy Clark's comments http://www.shayna.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entryentry=78672CBF-CABE-65E3-306A96044957F88C John Dowdell's comments http://www.markme.com/jd/archives/005883.cfm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Form labels
http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/ --- Wasabi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, After completing a form with labels, as suggested in a usability guideline I noticed firefox choked on them. None of the text fields would populate until I removed the labels from them. Could some one point me to a specification on proper implementation of labels. C ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Blue Moon -- Need help on IE5 Mac Floating
Hi All, I wouldn't ask unless I'd pulled my (rather short) hair out already. This page: http://www.webpublishing.com.au/dev/dsto/project.htm works fine in everything (Win IE 5+, FF, Opera, Safari) EXCEPT Mac IE 5. It has a problem with 2 floats: the major float of the sidebar, and also the float of the image in the main content. It seems to clear them, though there's no such rule. The file containing the structural layout is: http://www.webpublishing.com.au/dev/dsto/css/main.css But I'm serving up different styles for Mac IE using: http://www.webpublishing.com.au/dev/dsto/css/macIE5.css Even though I'm using the negative margin technique, the same behaviour occurs when I change the HTML to have the sidebar content before the main content, and only float the sidebar. Any help is much appreciated! Regards, -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Blue Moon -- Need help on IE5 Mac Floating
But #content is the parent of the two floated
elements, and clear rules aren't inherited, so it
doesn't affect what's nested.
Or is this just a MacIE5 bug?
--
Cameron Adams
W: www.themaninblue.com
--- Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jul 20, 2004, at 4:32 pm, Cameron Adams wrote:
This page:
http://www.webpublishing.com.au/dev/dsto/project.htm
works fine in everything (Win IE 5+, FF, Opera,
Safari) EXCEPT Mac IE 5.
It has a problem with 2 floats: the major float of
the
sidebar, and also the float of the image in the
main
content. It seems to clear them, though there's no
such rule.
The file containing the structural layout is:
http://www.webpublishing.com.au/dev/dsto/css/main.css
But I'm serving up different styles for Mac IE
using:
http://www.webpublishing.com.au/dev/dsto/css/macIE5.css
http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/float2misc/#fm002
You declare on div#content {clear:both}
This breaks the floated thing inside #content.
One solution is to insert a clearing div just before
div#content
Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/
code | design | web projects :
http://www.l-c-n.com/
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities :
http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/
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Re: [WSG] Blue Moon -- Need help on IE5 Mac Floating
Thank you both Hugh and Philippe. In the MacIE5-specific CSS I can just set it to clear: none and it works fine. Thanks! -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cameron, Your problem is the clear you are using for #content1. Mac IE 5 wrongly clears floats inside clearing block elements, and you can't fix it with clear:none;. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] WSG Melbourne: Quick Poll
I think we should hold a Standards-based bikini contest. That notwithstanding, I'd probably go for every 4 weeks, or at least a bit more regularly. -- Cameron --- afdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey there all Melbourne members of this list. At the last meeting of the Melbourne WSG, it was suggested that we meet more frequently. Currently we are meeting every 8 weeks. The alternatives are: 1. Meet every 4 weeks 2. Meet every 6 weeks If you have a strong feeling either way, please send your thoughts to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course feel free to use this opportunity to give us any other feedback/suggestions (such as future speakers, how we run meetings, our fashion sense etc.) PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS LIST You have till Monday 5pm, to have your say. cheers dez Melbourne WSG Co-Organiser * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] pixel to ems converter
Ems are actually standard units that are based on what font size your browser is set to (in some browsers), in combination with the font-size property in your CSS. While this may correspond to the actual width of an m in a font, any such correspondence is merely coincidental -- the font type has nothing to do with the unit em as it relates to CSS. I did whip up a page that shows a rough scale of ems for different browser variables that might help you: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/05/27/ http://www.themaninblue.com/experiment/emWidths/ Regards, -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Nick Gleitzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, June 21, 2004, at 05:11 PM, Michael Andrews wrote: An 'em' is different from font to font - it refers to the width of a character, and the same character is a different width in different fonts. Ems are proportional measurements. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Ten Questions for whomever
I heard he's a J.D. Salinger-type recluse who only gives interviews for six figures. --- Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you know who I'd like to see interviewed? That Russ guy who runs that cool site... :) -- Kay Smoljak Senior Developer/QC Leader/Search Optimisation PerthWeb Pty Ltd - http://www.perthweb.com.au/ Ph: 08 9226 1366 - Fax: 08 9226 1375 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2004 9:03 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Ten Questions for whomever Well... That is slightly incorrect... So far we have done: Eric Meyer Keith Robinson Anne van Kesteren Nick Finck Andy Budd Patrick Griffiths Simon Willison None of these people will be presenting at Web Essentials 2004 in Sydney. Over the coming months I'll be interviewing Dave Shea, then possible Doug Bowman, Joe Clark and John Allsopp - all of whom will be presenting at WE04. Russ AFAIK You have to be a big player in web standards, there has also been some correlation between interviewees and people at the Web Essentials seminar series later this year which is fair enough. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] accessible and stylish forms
Nah, I reckon it was this one: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/ P.S. Stop stealing my titles, Andy :p Regards, -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Kat Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This might be the one: http://www.aplus.co.yu/dots/109/ http://www.aplus.co.yu/dots/109/ -Original Message- I saw a web site that described how to create fully accessible forms and make them look purty. Does anyone know where that would be? __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] javascript form submission
Ideal situation is to have an onload in the form tag, to allow for quick checking of the form without the user having to submit to the server. However, you always need server-side validation, as anyone without javascript will be always be able to circumvent your client-side form checking. Ideally: both; minimal: server side. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Todini, Gianfranco (TWIi London) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This is my first post on this list and I'd like to say that I find it really really useful and intersting! I need to do some changes on a website to improve accessibility and one of the issue that I need to solve is the way the form are submitted, which is done by a javascript function called from the onclick event on an Anchor tag. And we know that this is wrong because if a user has got javascript disabled, he won't be able to submit the form. I'm going to add an input type=image button which will do the job but, where should I put now the form validation? I mean can I still use the onsubmit event on the input type image and use the same javascript function that there was before or is it everytime better to have the validation on the server-side to have a proper accessible form? Thanks everyone. Gianfranco Todini Front-end developer TWI Interactive Limited Hogarth Business Park One Burlington Lane Chiswick London, W4 2TH Tel: +44 (0) 20 8233 6212 Fax: +44 (0) 20 8233 6101 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit www.twii.net for news and information on TWIi's solutions and services (see below). TWIi is part of the Mark McCormack Group of companies DISCLAIMER - The preceding e-mail message (including any attachments) contains information that may be confidential, may be protected by the attorney-client or other applicable privileges, or may constitute non-public information. It is intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient of this message, or have otherwise received it in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete all copies of it from your computer system. Any use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this message by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. The contents of this communication do not necessarily represent the views of this company. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Launched my third xhtml site!!
Can I order a strangulation by proxy? ;o] -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you come to the Web standards meeting tonight you will have a chance to strangle me, and so will a lot of other people... __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] A tip on using multiple CSS classes
Lea de Groot wrote: But I'm happy to bow to your greater knowledge :) Bow to the mighty Russ-o-tron, puny Earthling! ;o] -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Melbourne Meeting - May
Is the Melbourne meeting really May 3? (like it says on the web site) If so, it snuck up quick! -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Web Essentials 04
Can I get a dollar discount for every newbie question I answer on this mail list? -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com That's gonna have to be one helluva discount! ;) -- tim __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] XHTML Form + Label - Errors
Who's blaming the what now? -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and blame Cameron Adams aka the man in blue http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/ for my thing with fieldset legend a couple of HTML 4 tags. Nick __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Re: List Left Margin
Geeze Russ, aren't you married? http://www.browsercam.com/projects/56771/930830.jpg -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Relative Fonts
Given the ignorance of some of your users, I'd assume they were using IE. But remember, there's no such thing as fixed font design anymore. Mozilla, Safari et al all resize fonts irrespective of units. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Gary Menzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't consider myself a guru on web standards (specifically XHTML/CSS) but am learning and getting better. I like standards. I dont like how they aren't uniformly supported (and am not really concerned about getting into another Browser Wars thread). But I am having some issues with Relative Fonts (you know the EM's). I understand them. Know why it is good to use them. And have built the templates (header/footer wrappers) for our site with EM's. There are issues though * Embedded WYSIWYG editors are still very immature when it comes to XHTML and CSS (our CMS lets us plug in lots of editors but most of them lack something in some way or other) so enforcing the use of EM's is flawed (at best). Some of the editors support the use of stylesheets and I suppose that is a path I could go down - but fully compliant XHTML is still difficult given that most editors still allow hand editing (and you do still need that because the HTML world is not perfect). Some of it may size - some of it may not. * Lots of people out there don't even know their Browser has the ability to control font size in a relative way. So when we launched our new site we had HUNDREDS (not exagerating - they are all logged) of complaints about the font size being too small or too big because they did not have their font size set to medium (and there doesn't appear to be a way to detect what the setting is - probably because it is not standard). And, if you have a mouse with a scroll wheel, it is very easy for the size to change when you are on a fixed size page and not realise it. * Some (more likely than less) designs just CANNOT be implemented using only relative fonts. Say you want to have a fixed 200px wide column on the right hand side and a stretchy column in the middle. The content on the right hand side HAS to be designed to look right in that 200px space. So that means you cannot really use relative font sizes if you are filling the 200px space. If they size it up - it wont fit and will look stupid. So this then defeats the purpose of using relative fonts at all - because, when they DO upsize the font, part of the page will size and part of it wont. Just go to some of the well known CSS/XHTML standards-based sites (wont mention any names) and you will find that not every part of the page sizes - but is this right? What if the bit that is too small for my eyes (e.g. the Menu) is the bit that the designer has in a fixed font ? Lots of reasons to go back to fixed point sizes. So - what does everyone do? As I said, I know how EM's work, what they are for, why you would use them and am not asking about that - but I am just about ready to go back to fixed point sizes. I always thought I was just a tech head programmer but the designer in me is coming out and the aesthetics of sites are starting to assert themselves rather strongly. Relative font sizes ruin good design. Gary Menzel Web Development Manager IT Operations Brisbane -+- ABN AMRO Morgans Limited Level 29, 123 Eagle Street BRISBANE QLD 4000 PH: 07 333 44 828 FX: 07 3834 0828 To unsubscribe from this email please forward this email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If this communication is not intended for you and you are not an authorised recipient of this email you are prohibited by law from dealing with or relying on the email or any file attachments. This prohibition includes reading, printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, storing or in any other way dealing or acting in reliance on the information. If you have received this email in error, we request you contact ABN AMRO Morgans Limited immediately by returning the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and destroy the original. We will refund any reasonable costs associated with notifying ABN AMRO Morgans. This email is confidential and may contain privileged client information. ABN AMRO Morgans has taken reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy and integrity of all its communications, including electronic communications, but accepts no liability for materials transmitted. Materials may also be transmitted without the knowledge of ABN AMRO Morgans. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited its directors and employees do not accept liability for the results of any actions taken or not on the basis of the information in this report. ABN AMRO Morgans Limited and its associates hold or may hold securities in the companies/trusts mentioned herein. Any recommendation is made on the basis of our research of the investment and may not suit the specific requirements of clients. Assessments
RE: [WSG] WSG Design competition is now open
I'd have thought you'd: - Receive entries - Wait for the deadline - Set up a gallery of said entries - People vote for their favourite one, once only, secretly - Winner takes all Why do you need to see what other people are voting? -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi woric. My question is will the voting results will be kept secret until the voting finishes, or will they be known before voting closes so we can change our vote accordingly? Hmmm democracy... I wonder how an election for the leader of a country would go if the results were tabulated in real-time. Only the party faithful would vote early. Add to that the ability to change your vote and I think you could start a civil war on polling day. It might make a big difference as to whether or not the poll reflects the true intentions of the group. I personally believe that personal preference (especially on what could be considered art) should not be influenced by peer pressure or it causes prejudice to some degree. I'm really not married to it as I believe in this case, the best design will win either way, and I'm not going to get a tax rise depending on the result! My only real concern is the embarrassment factor for a designer that gets 0 votes. Maybe we compromise and only give the current top 5 candidates? I haven't built the system yet and I'm happy to go with what everyone else thinks, secret ballot or show the current voting tally beside each submission? Please comment on the discuss page... http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/12.htm woric PS: Secret is bad. Big bad. Shhh don't tell anyone! P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS the Linux documentation project
Well ... you know, the webmonkey.com domain name will be up for grabs soon ... but it's all a bit hush-hush, so shhh ... ;o] -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- russ weakley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, we have seen some amazing stuff come out of TheManinBlue - auto accessible forms, css scrabble... Is this a hint about an upcoming project? Something like a Blind-monkey-auto-layout-tool ? :) Russ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS the Linux documentation project
Geeze, if Slashdot is meant to be the domain of supposedly tech-savvy readers, it's scary how many of them know jack-all about Web development. And statements like I'd support standards if any modern browser was compliant ... Sure, they're not compliant, but for styling most of the pages mentioned, (and the personal sites of some of the commenters) I think that a blind monkey could probably make them look better using only the intersection of all CSS rules that *do* work in every modern browser. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Mark Stanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/04/03/30/0041253.shtml?tid=106tid=126t id=185tid=95 Very interesting - even if just to demonstrate how little most people understand about CSS. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] How do I start a group in a city
No, really, he isn't! ;o] -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and I'm not the socialising type! P __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] APC Article on Web Standards
Has anyone read the opinion article in APC Magazine regarding Web Standards? (I haven't) It gets a brief mention here: http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/dir/latest Apparently its a bit scathing of them, but not having read it I can't really comment. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just came across this... http://www.scotconnect.com/webtypography/index.php Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] CSS Form Layout Examples
Hi, You might be interested in some accessible, semantic form layouts I've made: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24 Regards, -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] drop down menus
Although menus have obvious benefits in access to a large number of items, I'm not sure that they translate well to web navigation. Outside of a web page, drop-down menus are used for function points, not navigation: change text size, cut, copy, view source, etc. They're one-off actions that don't require you to reference them once you've used them. Navigation on a web site needs to be more persistent -- you like to know where everything is, where you are, where you've been; not have hidden surprises. With a menu system you would have to duplicate navigational elements in order to achieve this information. Additionally, drop-downs in applications work because you use the program regularly and you know where everything is -- it's essentially a shortcut mechanism. If your site isn't aimed at getting long-use, repeat traffic, and you don't have a whole lot of areas on the site, then drop downs probably hinder, as they take a while to explore and get used to. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Universal Head [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently had a client who insisted I implement drop-down menus for the navigation on their site, even though I gave them all the reasons why I thought they were unnecessary in their case - and I was wondering what the list's thoughts were on this method of navigation. Personally think that in most cases they are unnecessary. I think a well designed site should present information in a hierarchical fashion, allowing the user to access more detailed info as they progress into the site (while still keeping all parts of the site quickly accessible in two or three clicks). I think the opposite approach, of making every section and subsection available from the homepage via drop-down menus, has the opposite effect to what is intended by confusing the user with masses of choices upfront. What do y'all think? Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Actual page width (was: drop down menus)
640 x 480 seems a bit big, how am I meant to view it on my 320 pixel phone? -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- Bernie Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Build you site flexable and not fixed, let it expand from 640x480 to 1024x768 - Original Message - From: Cameron Adams To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 6:29 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Actual page width (was: drop down menus) I generally design to 760px width, that gives you a fairly big margin of error. The actual Windows scrollbar is 16px, but it varies across OS/browser, and you also have to think of collapsed side bars, etc. Better to err on the side of narrowness. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com --- theGrafixGuy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When a screen resolution is 800 x 600 - what is the Actual width of the browser viewing area (taking the window borders into account). If the page extends beyond the depth of the page and the browser adds a scroll-bar, what is the width of the browser's viewwing area now?? Thanks a bunch and forgive me if this is somewhere out there, I just have not been able to find the answers. Brian __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Melbourne WSG Meeting
Although it mightn't interest the whole list, let me be the first one to congratulate everyone who was involved with the Melbourne meeting, especially our Sydney contingent and the organisers. I wasn't sure what to expect, but John's propensity to argue all things CSS sparked off some great debate and the experience was well worth it. For anyone who hasn't been to a meeting or is thinking of setting one up in your area, I'd urge you to do so; it's a totally different (and better) experience than trading e-mails online. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Debrief and thanks to Russ Peter
Hmmm ... those photos are making me re-think going to the Melbourne meeting ;o] -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] horizontal floated lists
Most of the time I display: inline the li's in a horizontal menu. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Image replace or ALT text?
There's an IR technique with text here: http://levin.grundeis.net/files/20030809/alternatefir.html __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Some links for light reading...
When you say that www.fhm.lv is a nice css site, what exactly do you mean Russ? :oP -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Image floating question
Well, it's always going to float to the right of whatever's containing it, so if the container is only set to the browser width (100%) it'll collapse. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Flowchart using CSS
I think it's impossible to do in HTML, there's no way you can model the relationships. You'd need to write your own XML schema to fully encompass everything that needs to be represented, then parse it through some rendering system to make any decent sense out of it. You have to draw a line somewhere between writing your own application and just putting up an image. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] newbie discovers absolute positioning
Absolute positioning only works when you know the *exact* height of the element you're positioning. Good for positioning images, such as logos, but when they contain text it's probably not a good way to go. (especially in Mozilla, which does not re-calculate absolutely positioned items when you change text sizes) -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Fun with CSS!
{text-align: bottom} got you down?
{background-color: #FF} making you feel blue?
Then have a game of SSCrabble -- the fun way to pass
the time with Web Standards! :o]
http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/01/27/
--
Cameron
W: www.themaninblue.com
__
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
*
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*
Re: [WSG] Background PNGs in IE/Win?
The gray box appears in IE when someone specifies an alpha channel in the PNG -- IE can't handle the transparency, so it renders a gray background. I expect it would be the same with background images. There's an IE 6 workaround to PNG transparency, someone else will have to tell you about it though. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] A few quick links...
That's probably the most interesting Zen Garden entry I've seen. Something other than just styling of the content. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] list-style-types
I just tried setting vertical-align: middle on an li. In IE6 it moves it moves the bullet more centrally, in Mozilla and Opera it does nothing, but they're pretty central anyway. You can try all sorts of different values: baseline, text-top, etc. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Definition lists -- mid-weekly challenge
Can't be bothered trying it, but you could float the image left, leave the other elements non-floated, block, with left margins equal to the image width. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] [OT] Good web host? Mine broke.
Hi, I was in the hunt for a good (cheap) web host. Explanation and replies here: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/01/21/ Thanks, -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] entities
I believe that for quotes it's handy to use the entities because you define proper opening and closing quotes, instead of using the uni-directional default as defined on the keyboard. It's probably safest to use entities in all your text, as then they have no way of conflicting with the actual XHTML syntax. ... but I'm no web typography expert. -- Cameron W: www.themaninblue.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Re: px em pt ???
That article gives the worst advice I've seen. Basically, they're saying that if someone wants to resize the text on your web page, you shouldn't allow them to because it will break your site, making it illegible. If a user wants to resize the text on your site, it is because it is illegible to them in the first place; increasing font size can only improve matters. Better that it breaks your design and they're able to see the content, rather than them not being able to see it at all. By using px units, you lock many users into exactly the font size specified (some browsers can resize px, but not IE). Using a relative unit, such as em or % (I use em), allows users to resize text so they can ACTUALLY SEE IT. If you ask any reasonably usability-oriented designer they will tell you to use relative units (www.stopdesign.com | www.zeldman.com), and to code your web page structure to allow for variable text sizes. Hope this helps (and it didn't seem like I was yelling at you), -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com In reply to: (aayyy, my third post today?) I'd like to see what all of yours opinion is on what to use for sizes, I have always been a believer to stick to pixels, because that is the only size that to me sounds as something that is not platform/OS bound. Anyway, I also found the following article to back this up, who wants to break it down? Using CSS (cascading style sheets) makes it easy to specify font sizes, but before you set a font size you should be aware that it could change the layout of your site considerably. Different browsers interpret font sizes differently, so a font that appears readable in Microsoft Internet Explorer may be smaller when viewed in Netscape. In addition, font sizes on Windows systems are not always the same as they are on other platforms. Your site may look great to Windows users, but it may be illegible to those using a Mac. There is much controversy in relationship to font-size specifications. Our advice is the same as the majority of long-time designers. When you specify a font size, specify it in pixels (px) not points (pt) or em. Using a pt or em font-size property instead of px allows for your site text to be resized according to the viewer's system settings. If their system is set to view very large text, your web site's layout will become distorted and your web site may be illegible to them. Also, be very careful not to set your font-size pixels too small. Some folks may not be able to read tiny text and adjusting their system text size will have no effect on your site because your font-size is specified as px. There truly is a happy medium in any situation and the font-size (ie. 12px) will vary depending on the font-family (ie. Arial, Times New Roman, etc.) you use. __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
