RE: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Thanks for the answer Marilyn. As I wrote before, I never implied that tables are meant to be used for layouts.I for one don't use tables ...haven't used them for quite a long time. But that doesn't mean they can't be used, if tabular data is involved. And obviously I see no "hacking" in using tables. I am sorry if you assumed that I meant using tables for layout in my previous posts.As someone mentioned, this is the WSG - thus we are supposed to know a few things about standards and use them. Let's suppose you have a page that involves tabular data. You got two versions of this page, one built with divs/spans/lists and another one built with tables. Both versions are css enhanced. Why would you call one "css driven" and the other one not? Best regards, Emma Dobrescu -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn Langfeld Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:22 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS Driven? Hi Emma, I'd like to tackle your question. Yes, you can consider a table a container. However, in HTML a table contains tabular data, not other tables, not layout. HTML was designed by scientists, for whom tables of data were of utmost importance. It was a perversion of the language to use them for layout. Unfortunately, IMHO, designers were not part of the team developing HTML, so that presentation was given low priority. Allowing the mess that's call tag soup to develop. If the Web were only a visual medium, this wouldn't be too bad. But, one of the wonderful things about the Web is that it's a great equalizer--allowing disabled, abled, low bandwidth, high bandwith, etc. users to use it and gain information, develop networks, buy, sell, learn, teach, etc. So, in order to help the Web grow more and more useful, separate your content and presentation. That way, everyone can access your pages. That means, use tables as intended, for tabular data. Now, in my book, tabular data includes text, when presented in tabular form (with columns and rows, column heads and row heads). And use css to position, colour, define your text, images, etc. That's css-driven. As opposed to using tables for positioning and css for basic font styling. CSS can do everything I just mentioned (within browser limitations). Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld Langfeldesigns http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.301.598.3300 business phone +1.301.598.0532 fax +1.202.390.8847 mobile On Dec 12, 2005, at 9:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Sorry, but I have to disagree. > Tables as well as divs, spans etc. are containers. They are both html > elements. I don't think that any standard has suppressed the table > element from html and in my dictionary, hacking is modifying a program > in an unauthorized manner. Are tables unauthorized? > I never said that tables are meant for design. But even by w3.org > standards they are used for displaying tabular data . > What is in your oppinion the difference between a css driven and a css > complemented page? Isn't in both cases the coding enhanced by the > styling? > > Please do not qualify others' statements as "silly". Let's keep this > discussion in a friendly manner. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1319 (20051212) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Tables as well as divs, spans etc. are containers. They are both html elements. I don't think that any standard has suppressed the table element from html and in my dictionary, hacking is modifying a program in an unauthorized manner. Are tables unauthorized? I never said that tables are meant for design. But even by w3.org standards they are used for displaying tabular data . What is in your oppinion the difference between a css driven and a css complemented page? Isn't in both cases the coding enhanced by the styling? Please do not qualify others' statements as "silly". Let's keep this discussion in a friendly manner. On 12/12/05, Christian Montoya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 12/12/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A distinction needs to be made. > > The html coding can be table based or tableless and in both cases the > > page can be CSS driven or not. > > Sorry, that is wrong. A table based layout is not CSS driven. There's > a difference between "driven" and "complemented." A tableless layout > is driven by CSS, and a table based layout is only complemented by > CSS. > > Please, no more silly statements like that. This is the Web Standards > Group. To take it a step further, the html coding can never be table > based. That's hacking, not coding. > > -- > -- > Christian Montoya > christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Driven?
A distinction needs to be made. The html coding can be table based or tableless and in both cases the page can be CSS driven or not. On 12/12/05, Absalom Media <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > russ - maxdesign wrote: > > >>What is the definition of a CSS driven design ? > > > > You could say that a css-driven site is one that has all or the majority of > > presentation removed from the markup and placed in CSS files. > > So where's the dividing line between table based design and CSS driven ? > > My searching thus far has turned up Meyer, comments about the Zen > Garden, and a few other proponents across the Net implying or stating > that CSS driven means pretty much all CSS based, not just some.. and I'd > like to know why they are right. > > Anyone? > > > Having said this, I googled the word driven for a definition and found that > > it also meant "mobs goaded by blind hatred" > > > > I don't know about anyone else but I often use angry mobs to control my web > > pages - though it is hard to get them to exhibit blind hate. > > Love the definition, Russ ;) > > > :) > > Russ > > Lawrence > > -- > Lawrence Meckan > > Absalom Media > Mob: (04) 1047 9633 > ABN: 49 286 495 792 > http://www.absalom.biz > ** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] CSS foul-up in IE. Trying to implement Myers "pure css pop-up" code
Here's a rough example. It needs more styling, but I hope it's what you are after. http://www.thinkpinkstudio.com/examples/menu.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
