Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
Siteman DA - Bent Inge wrote: My goal is that the pages are accessible, SEO-friendly and that the design will be easy to change. I would really appreciate some quality feedback on this subject as the cms is suppose to be finished yesterday :-) The template is validated XHTML and CSS. The link to the html (xhtml) is http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/ and the stylesheet is located at http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/sitestyle.css Tested in Lynx, Opera, Moz/FF and IE6, on win2K-pro. First impression: Could probably make something out of this one. I guess that's the idea since you refer to csszengarden. If so-- not bad. It looks good styled like that. Just a bit 'wide'. Some good CSS might do the trick. Source-code, negative: 1: target=_blank is valid at that doctype, but deprecated in higher xhtml-versions (for a reason). Not the most visitor-friendly action to create new windows/tabs, and it breaks the BACK-button. 2: accesskey=T is valid, but accesskey often interfere with the use of keys in other software. Something may not work as a visitor is used to. Result: they don't seem to improve access-- only add confusion. 3: It is always better to put the main content first in the source-code. Much more efficient with regard to search engines, and improves access for those who need it the most. Tell 'Skrue McDuck' that. Skip links helps a lot, so your template do not create any real accessibility-problems as I see it. Far from ideal though. 4: You've used absolute font-size (px). Doesn't work well in any of my browsers-- not even in IE/win. The page breaks completely in IE6. Source-code, positive: Link-relations is a good thing. I hope you can 'sell' the use of those. regards Georg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
Hi, Erik Fåberg;-) (I guess that would be the translation to a norwegian name :-) The design itself is not finished and is not important for now. It's the markup I'm conserned with. Is it accesible, is it overaccesible etc. About the width; the customer is set on a fixed with of 1000px, I adviced against it but I guess my advice didn't count for much... White space... It's a mystery for me where all that whitespace comes from. Seems like it comes and goes of its own free will, I will have to investigate :..( However, the original template is located at http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/designmal/and may be better. The sourcecode is the same. And to George, thanks for valuable feedback. When it comes to target="_blank" i agree with you, but I'm not sure the customers will. This is by the way, the only reason I use Transitional instead of Strict XHTML. Acceskeys - you wrote: accesskey="T" is valid, but accesskey often interfere with the use of keys in other software. Something may not work as a visitor is used to. Result: they don't seem to improve access-- only add confusion. I would really like a second opinion on this, is it best to not use access keys at all? I'm sure there's some dissens when it comes to this, am I right? you also wrote: 3: It is always better to put the main content first in the source-code. Much more efficient with regard to search engines, and improves access for those who need it the most. Tell 'Skrue McDuck' that. Skip links helps a lot, so your template do not create any real accessibility-problems as I see it. Far from ideal though. I haven't come up with a smart sollution to this, both me and Skrue McDuck is having trouble with this ;-)The point is that the credittbar and the xtra navigation bar is suppose to float beneath the tallest column, and with this design it will. If someone have a smart way of doing this, I'd be mighty happy :-) This is the layout compressed: div id="ramme"!-- frame -- div id="header"/div!-- Usually just placeholder for absolutely positioned elements -- div id="kol1"/div!-- floats to the left -- div id="kol2"/div!-- floats to the right -- div id="innhold"/div!-- eq. main content - given margins to spare out sidecolumns -- div id="xtranav"/div!-- follows after the talles of the above columns -- div id="kreditt"/div!-- as xtranav --/div!-- end frame -- So - any smart ways to put the main content in front of kol1 kol2? Should they all float? 4. Absolut font-size... I hate to give away control, but I guess I'll leave it up to each customer in the end. Hope to get more valuablefeedback like this, and again to Rick and George - Thanks a lot! Ben @ siteman www.siteman.no - Original Message - From: "Rick Faaberg" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:37 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts? I would really appreciate some quality feedback on this subject as the cms is suppose to be finished yesterday :-) The template is validated XHTML and CSS. The link to the html (xhtml) is http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/ and the stylesheet is located at http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/sitestyle.cssYour design width is pretty wide for smaller monitors it seems to me. Ittakes perhaps 2/3 of the width of my 20 inch monitor in Safari to see itall. Maybe if the center content part could be fluid that would help. Alsothe what I believe to be "Search Webdeal" form is hanging out to the rightas the only content there. Maybe it's supposed to be above "Siste artikler"?In Safari it is not.There is nearly infinite white space below your page content in Safari(current version). I can scroll down for hours and see only white.I'm not sure I'd ever go with full-justified text, but maybe that's apersonal thing. I just don't really like extra space between words that onlyserves to full-justify the text.Loads fast - clean design - and here I am of Norwegian descent (1/2) andunderstand none of the language ;-(HTHRick Faaberg**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
Siteman DA - Bent Inge wrote: When it comes to target=_blank i agree with you, but I'm not sure the customers will. This is by the way, the only reason I use Transitional instead of Strict XHTML. As always; inform your customers-- and let them have it their way. They pay the bill... accesskey=T is valid, but accesskey often interfere with the use of keys in other software. Something may not work as a visitor is used to. Result: they don't seem to improve access-- only add confusion. I would really like a second opinion on this, is it best to not use access keys at all? I'm sure there's some dissens when it comes to this, am I right? You're right, and that's why I use accesskey(!!?) That's also why I am reorganizing things and will get rid of most of them. I think the number-keys (0 - 9) are still somewhat safe to use, but not the others. It is always better to put the main content first in the source-code. I haven't come up with a smart sollution to this, both me and Skrue McDuck is having trouble with this ;-) The point is that the credittbar and the xtra navigation bar is suppose to float beneath the tallest column, and with this design it will. If someone have a smart way of doing this, I'd be mighty happy :-) So - any smart ways to put the main content in front of kol1 kol2? Should they all float? Yes, floats can be arranged that way. Would be a shame if I couldn't follow up with some ideas. Ryan Brill's: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/negativemargins/ ... that should give you some insight. My own solution: http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_01_02.html ...is still in the test-phase. The ordered source-code is stable though, although some think it is complex. Floats and absolute positioning in a flexible layout... - main (centered) - add1 (left, at the moment) - add2 (right, at the moment) - footer (below somewhere) - everything else (where it appear best in Lynx) All other pages in that section use the same template, but are styled as 2-columns. BTW: It has controlled width in IE/win too, in case you wondered. And IE/Mac don't like my CSS... 4. Absolut font-size... I hate to give away control, but I guess I'll leave it up to each customer in the end. There isn't such a thing as control on font-size, as all browsers since IE4 have been able to override it. At least make your customers aware of this fact-- even though they may not believe you. The web isn't print... regards - og lykke til Georg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
Hi!I've been working on a template to use for a new version of our cms.The idea is that the HTML-code (core) will be allmost the same for all the customers. Changes to the design is to be done only in the stylesheet. (yes... like www.csszengarden.com :-)I think I've managed to get it close to perfect, but I would very much like a second opinion from you wizes out there, before I decide to put it to work.Please disregard links etc., they're not working yet. My goal is that the pages are accessible, SEO-friendly and that the design will be easy to change. I would really appreciate some quality feedback on this subject as the cms is suppose to be finished yesterday :-) The template is validated XHTML and CSS. The link to the html (xhtml) is http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/and the stylesheet is locatedat http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/sitestyle.css Thanks in advance, Ben @ siteman, norway www.siteman.no
Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
Hi Ben The concept is a good one, glad to see you are running with it. I'd change some of your class/id names - example: column 1, column 2 - they may not be columns at all in the long run. Something like primary or secondary might suit? I wish I wrote clean enough markup so I didn't have to rip the guts out of a site when I go to redesign! Natalie. On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 06:29:00 +0100, Siteman DA - Bent Inge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I've been working on a template to use for a new version of our cms. The idea is that the HTML-code (core) will be allmost the same for all the customers. Changes to the design is to be done only in the stylesheet. (yes... like www.csszengarden.com :-) I think I've managed to get it close to perfect, but I would very much like a second opinion from you wizes out there, before I decide to put it to work. Please disregard links etc., they're not working yet. My goal is that the pages are accessible, SEO-friendly and that the design will be easy to change. I would really appreciate some quality feedback on this subject as the cms is suppose to be finished yesterday :-) The template is validated XHTML and CSS. The link to the html (xhtml) is http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/ and the stylesheet is located at http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/sitestyle.css Thanks in advance, Ben @ siteman, norway www.siteman.no -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Design template for CMS, any thougts?
I would really appreciate some quality feedback on this subject as the cms is suppose to be finished yesterday :-) The template is validated XHTML and CSS. The link to the html (xhtml) is http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/ and the stylesheet is located at http://www.siteman.no/v4/web_bi/webdeal/sitestyle.css Your design width is pretty wide for smaller monitors it seems to me. It takes perhaps 2/3 of the width of my 20 inch monitor in Safari to see it all. Maybe if the center content part could be fluid that would help. Also the what I believe to be Search Webdeal form is hanging out to the right as the only content there. Maybe it's supposed to be above Siste artikler? In Safari it is not. There is nearly infinite white space below your page content in Safari (current version). I can scroll down for hours and see only white. I'm not sure I'd ever go with full-justified text, but maybe that's a personal thing. I just don't really like extra space between words that only serves to full-justify the text. Loads fast - clean design - and here I am of Norwegian descent (1/2) and understand none of the language ;-( HTH Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
