Re: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
Miika Mäkinen wrote: > I remember seeing one test on the @media "handheld" support and found it: > > http://htmldog.com/ptg/archives/55.php > and a conclusion at http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/56.php > > I guess the main issue still is that "sizable chunk of mobile browser > share (Pocket IE) also apply styles that are supposed to be specific to > the "screen" media type.". > > I need to do some stuff for mobile later this year as well, and so far > I'm planning to send mobiles different pages than desktop browsers. Also > it's not that easy to make content that works on sooo different > resolutions AND you should remember that the connection speed of a > mobile is usually slow e.g. sending lot of content that is hidden using > stylesheets seems like a waste. > > I think that it depends on the type of content you have... articles and > blogs etc. could probably be sent the same to all browsers, while more > of an "application" still will need different versions. Would resolution dependent CSS switching also work within this model ? http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2006/01/19/ The concept I'm working on using this tech is as follows: 1) For Pocket IE and other PDAs, run a basic 200 pixel wide design under "screen" media type, then step up to 640 by 480, 800 by 600 and so on for normal (IE/Fox/Opera/Safari) browser rendering 2) run a cut down version of the 200 pixel "screen" model for the "handheld" media type. 3) Run a boilerplate "print" version aimed at correctly printing everything in order at A4 or Letter. Would this method also work ? Sure, it looks like a lot of work and possible duplication, but then you could also extend to the "tv" and "tty" media types inside this model.. Lawrence -- Lawrence Meckan Absalom Media Mob: (04) 1047 9633 ABN: 49 286 495 792 http://www.absalom.biz ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
I remember seeing one test on the @media "handheld" support and found it:http://htmldog.com/ptg/archives/55.phpand a conclusion at http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/56.phpI guess the main issue still is that "sizable chunk of mobile browser share (Pocket IE) also apply styles that are supposed to be specific to the "screen" media type.". I need to do some stuff for mobile later this year as well, and so far I'm planning to send mobiles different pages than desktop browsers. Also it's not that easy to make content that works on sooo different resolutions AND you should remember that the connection speed of a mobile is usually slow e.g. sending lot of content that is hidden using stylesheets seems like a waste.I think that it depends on the type of content you have... articles and blogs etc. could probably be sent the same to all browsers, while more of an "application" still will need different versions. MiikaOn 1/26/06, Nic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So it seems advantageous serving the same style for print and handheld?Ahhh, no. I wouldn't go that far. Print styles often drop menus entirely,which you need to keep for your handheld. I also tend to drop background images and other superfluous images in print, whereas you may want to use*some* images in your handheld styles (and no, I'm not contradicting myself;) )CheersNic** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
> So it seems advantageous serving the same style for print and handheld? Ahhh, no. I wouldn't go that far. Print styles often drop menus entirely, which you need to keep for your handheld. I also tend to drop background images and other superfluous images in print, whereas you may want to use *some* images in your handheld styles (and no, I'm not contradicting myself ;) ) Cheers Nic ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
On Jan 24, 2006, at 5:50 PM, Nic wrote: Any suggestions on creating stylesheets specific to wireless? Well, obviously, declare your css with media="handheld", then style your page accordingly :) Always a good place to start, smarty pants :) So it seems advantageous serving the same style for print and handheld? Remember that screen sizes are *small*, so fixed widths are a no- go. Use % instead of px. Same for fixed font sizes. Use em rather than px for font sizes, for example. Big images are also a no go. Big file sizes are going to eat up costly bandwidth for the poor wireless user. Big files (pixel wise) are going to force horizontal scrolling. Where possible, reduce de number of images, or eliminate them completely. Eliminate elements that are not completely necessary. People who use their wireless to access a site are not there for the design, they want to find the content quickly, access the content quickly, and be on their merry way. If your site has big menus, you may want to deliver a limited menu for the wireless/mobile/handheld. For example, deliver only top level list items for menus using nested lists. Use links to "skip navigation" and "skip menus" right at the top, so people who don't want to scroll down can just jump to it (that's a good practice on any site anyway). Use bold colours, try to keep in the "web safe" range. While we can get away from using web safe colours anymore for the PC (in most cases), the screen quality of handhelds still leave to be desired, and you're better off keeping within that web safe range. In other words, simplify, simplify, simplify :) Cheers Nic ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
On Jan 24, 2006, at 5:53 PM, Miika Mäkinen wrote: By wireless do you mean mobile and pdas? Problem is that most of the PDAs will include stylesheets they shouldn't (@media screen). I've found that the only way to do good contents for mobile is to server different pages. Hi, This was the affliction inspiring the question. So your suggesting content negotiation, hopefully with php? Return True, Christopher Kennon Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep www.bushidodeep.com ___ "An ideal is merely the projection, on an enormously enlarged scale, of some aspect of personality." -- Aldus Huxley ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
By wireless do you mean mobile and pdas?Problem is that most of the PDAs will include stylesheets they shouldn't (@media screen). I've found that the only way to do good contents for mobile is to server different pages. MiikaOn 1/25/06, Chris Kennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi,Any suggestions on creating stylesheets specific to wireless? Theobject is one site served to (3) UAs.Return True,Christopher KennonPrincipal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep http://bushidodeep.com/__"Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do." ---Bruce Lee **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help**
RE: [WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
> Any suggestions on creating stylesheets specific to wireless? Well, obviously, declare your css with media="handheld", then style your page accordingly :) Remember that screen sizes are *small*, so fixed widths are a no-go. Use % instead of px. Same for fixed font sizes. Use em rather than px for font sizes, for example. Big images are also a no go. Big file sizes are going to eat up costly bandwidth for the poor wireless user. Big files (pixel wise) are going to force horizontal scrolling. Where possible, reduce de number of images, or eliminate them completely. Eliminate elements that are not completely necessary. People who use their wireless to access a site are not there for the design, they want to find the content quickly, access the content quickly, and be on their merry way. If your site has big menus, you may want to deliver a limited menu for the wireless/mobile/handheld. For example, deliver only top level list items for menus using nested lists. Use links to "skip navigation" and "skip menus" right at the top, so people who don't want to scroll down can just jump to it (that's a good practice on any site anyway). Use bold colours, try to keep in the "web safe" range. While we can get away from using web safe colours anymore for the PC (in most cases), the screen quality of handhelds still leave to be desired, and you're better off keeping within that web safe range. In other words, simplify, simplify, simplify :) Cheers Nic ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Screen->Print->Wireless
Hi, Any suggestions on creating stylesheets specific to wireless? The object is one site served to (3) UAs. Return True, Christopher Kennon Principal/Designer/Programmer -Bushidodeep http://bushidodeep.com/ __ "Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do." ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
