Re: [WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml
Hi Rebecca, Screen readers handling of JavaScript events are a real pain as not only do different screen readers handle HTML and CSS differently but this is also true of their handling of JavaScript. Typically as no content should be inaccessible without JS if you must hide content from a sighted user do so with absolutley positioning the element of screen rather than using display none. With regards to the show hide cookie, if you place the links offscreen using the method described above and then position back within the page view on focus then once a person tabs through the anchor list the links show. This is also usefull when providing partially sighted users visual ques onscreen. The JavaScript Anthology by James Edwards http://www.sitepoint.com/books/jsant1/ has a nice chapter on this subject and The Juicy Studio Blog also many informative posts http://juicystudio.com/index.php. Kind Regards Darren On 05/03/07, Rebecca Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've got a couple of questions regarding DHTML and how to ensure content is accessible usable via screen reader. Say you have a web page with a link to Subscribe to updates - when the user hovers on the link, a form would be displayed below (standard dhtml show/hide). The form would be in the HTML source on page load, hidden using CSS. My questions on this are: 1. If we displayed the content on focus as well as on hover, would this make it screen reader usable? 2. Alternatively, we could make clicking on the link (rather than, or as well as, on focus) display the content and take you to it (ie use an anchor on the page). 2. Does reading out the link (for screen readers) give it focus? 3. If we had (at top of page, with the skip link) a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality, (using a cookie) would this be useful? If anyone has comments, suggestions etc they could pass on to me about this, it would be greatly appreciated:) Regards, Rebecca Cox SIGNIFY LIMITED :: the logic behind ph: +64 4 803-3211 | fax: +64 4 803-3241 http://www.signify.co.nz P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington 250A Wakefield St, Wellington This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send on or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml
Hi all, I've got a couple of questions regarding DHTML and how to ensure content is accessible usable via screen reader. Say you have a web page with a link to Subscribe to updates - when the user hovers on the link, a form would be displayed below (standard dhtml show/hide). The form would be in the HTML source on page load, hidden using CSS. My questions on this are: 1. If we displayed the content on focus as well as on hover, would this make it screen reader usable? 2. Alternatively, we could make clicking on the link (rather than, or as well as, on focus) display the content and take you to it (ie use an anchor on the page). 2. Does reading out the link (for screen readers) give it focus? 3. If we had (at top of page, with the skip link) a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality, (using a cookie) would this be useful? If anyone has comments, suggestions etc they could pass on to me about this, it would be greatly appreciated:) Regards, Rebecca Cox SIGNIFY LIMITED :: the logic behind ph: +64 4 803-3211 | fax: +64 4 803-3241 http://www.signify.co.nz P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington 250A Wakefield St, Wellington This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send on or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml
It is difficult to give a definitive opinion without seeing your implementation but I have never seen a design of this kind that was accessible to a screen reader if the content was displayed on hover. I doubt that displaying it on focus would work either. JAWS (and some other screen readers) works off its own object model so the links only receive focus when they are clicked, not when they are read. As it happens we are working on a site that uses this show/hide functionality right now (we are only testing it, not designing it). Take a look at http://www.makesenseofit.com/Retirement/All-the-info.aspx - I assume this is the sort of thing you want to do. JAWS ignores the show/hide functionality and always reads all the content whether the list is fully visible or not. In most cases this is the least confusing solution even though the user may wonder what the 'view more'/'view less' links do. Dynamic content is almost always a problem for screen readers no matter how it is designed, and content that really does toggle on and off can be more confusing than links that appear to do nothing. I don't think that a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality would be useful. You would have to explain what it was for, and at that point the user has no way of deciding whether to turn it off or not. The way you implement this could affect other user groups too. Can you be more specific about what you want to do? Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd / First Accessibility www.testpartners.co.uk www.accessibility.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rebecca Cox Sent: 05 March 2007 22:27 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml Hi all, I've got a couple of questions regarding DHTML and how to ensure content is accessible usable via screen reader. Say you have a web page with a link to Subscribe to updates - when the user hovers on the link, a form would be displayed below (standard dhtml show/hide). The form would be in the HTML source on page load, hidden using CSS. My questions on this are: 1. If we displayed the content on focus as well as on hover, would this make it screen reader usable? 2. Alternatively, we could make clicking on the link (rather than, or as well as, on focus) display the content and take you to it (ie use an anchor on the page). 2. Does reading out the link (for screen readers) give it focus? 3. If we had (at top of page, with the skip link) a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality, (using a cookie) would this be useful? If anyone has comments, suggestions etc they could pass on to me about this, it would be greatly appreciated:) Regards, Rebecca Cox SIGNIFY LIMITED :: the logic behind ph: +64 4 803-3211 | fax: +64 4 803-3241 http://www.signify.co.nz P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington 250A Wakefield St, Wellington This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send on or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml
Here's the rule of thumb concerning screen readers and hidden content: Start with it in place from the beginning, then hide it with javascript once you run some tests to make sure it works (ie event handlers etc) That way you are safe. Trying to create this interactivity with a screenreader will only create a confusing experience. This same rule should apply to any javascripting - always start with a plain-jane page and enhance from there. My 2 cents, *Joseph R. B. Taylor* Sites by Joe, LLC /Custom Web Design Development/ Phone: (609) 335-3076 www.sitesbyjoe.com http://www.sitesbyjoe.com Steve Green wrote: It is difficult to give a definitive opinion without seeing your implementation but I have never seen a design of this kind that was accessible to a screen reader if the content was displayed on hover. I doubt that displaying it on focus would work either. JAWS (and some other screen readers) works off its own object model so the links only receive focus when they are clicked, not when they are read. As it happens we are working on a site that uses this show/hide functionality right now (we are only testing it, not designing it). Take a look at http://www.makesenseofit.com/Retirement/All-the-info.aspx - I assume this is the sort of thing you want to do. JAWS ignores the show/hide functionality and always reads all the content whether the list is fully visible or not. In most cases this is the least confusing solution even though the user may wonder what the 'view more'/'view less' links do. Dynamic content is almost always a problem for screen readers no matter how it is designed, and content that really does toggle on and off can be more confusing than links that appear to do nothing. I don't think that a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality would be useful. You would have to explain what it was for, and at that point the user has no way of deciding whether to turn it off or not. The way you implement this could affect other user groups too. Can you be more specific about what you want to do? Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd / First Accessibility www.testpartners.co.uk www.accessibility.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rebecca Cox Sent: 05 March 2007 22:27 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Screen reader friendly show/hide dhtml Hi all, I've got a couple of questions regarding DHTML and how to ensure content is accessible usable via screen reader. Say you have a web page with a link to Subscribe to updates - when the user hovers on the link, a form would be displayed below (standard dhtml show/hide). The form would be in the HTML source on page load, hidden using CSS. My questions on this are: 1. If we displayed the content on focus as well as on hover, would this make it screen reader usable? 2. Alternatively, we could make clicking on the link (rather than, or as well as, on focus) display the content and take you to it (ie use an anchor on the page). 2. Does reading out the link (for screen readers) give it focus? 3. If we had (at top of page, with the skip link) a facility to turn off the show/hide functionality, (using a cookie) would this be useful? If anyone has comments, suggestions etc they could pass on to me about this, it would be greatly appreciated:) Regards, Rebecca Cox SIGNIFY LIMITED :: the logic behind ph: +64 4 803-3211 | fax: +64 4 803-3241 http://www.signify.co.nz P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington 250A Wakefield St, Wellington This communication, including any attachment, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete/destroy this communication; you may not read and must not copy, send on or retain any part of this communication. Please do not disclose to any third party anything about this communication. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Joseph R. B. Taylor n:Taylor;Joseph org:Sites by Joe, LLC adr:;;408 Route 47 South;Cape May Court House;NJ;08210;USA
