[WSG] Semantics: Microformats, RDFa

2009-02-27 Thread Andrew Maben
There seem to be some Microformats proponents on the list, but I  
don't recall much mention of RDFa.


I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on their relative merits, both  
immediately and in the longer term?


Thanks,


Andrew Maben

www.andrewmaben.net
and...@andrewmaben.com

In a well designed user interface, the user should not need  
instructions.







***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***

Re: [WSG] Semantics: Microformats, RDFa

2009-02-27 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

On 27/2/09 16:12, Andrew Maben wrote:

There seem to be some Microformats proponents on the list, but I don't
recall much mention of RDFa.

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on their relative merits, both
immediately and in the longer term?


It might be helpful if you described the problem you're hoping to solve 
with either, but anyway here are some thoughts under four headings.


+ Parser interoperability

I don't have first-hand experience with implementing a parser, but I 
suspect how XHTML+RDFa should be parsed into RDF triples is better 
specified than how HTML4 and XHTML1 microformats should be parsed into 
data. The microformats community is still working on parsing specs, but 
the XHTML+RDFa standard includes parsing specs:


http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#s_rdfaindetail

http://microformats.org/wiki/parsing

+ HTML compatibility

You are supposed to be able to express microformats in conforming HTML 
4.01 as well as XHTML 1.x. This has been partially achieved in the sense 
that no microformat requires you to write HTML 4.01 that does not meet 
its SGML validity requirements, though some accepted microformat 
patterns do (arguably, at least) abuse HTML4 elements and attributes.


By contrast, RDFa has only been specified for XHTML. However, Internet 
Explorer - the most popular browser - does not support XHTML. The 
guidance for how authors should serve XHTML family documents as 
text/html is still being written (by the XHTML 2 WG):


http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtml-media-types

Worse, there is no standard yet for how RDFa should be treated when 
served as text/html rather than XML. This will be defined by the HTML 
WG/WHATWG, who are working on the next version of the HTML standard and 
are currently unpersuaded of the need to support RDFa:


http://www.w3.org/html/wg/

http://www.whatwg.org/

http://tinyurl.com/bbx75q [public-h...@w3.org archives]

http://tinyurl.com/akjzm3 [wha...@whatwg.org archives]

+ Accessibility

Microformats create minor accessibility problems when you need to 
include machine-parseable data that is equivalent or supplementary to 
human-friendly visible information. The microformats community is still 
working on better approaches to including such information.


http://www.webstandards.org/2007/04/27/haccessibility/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml

http://microformats.org/wiki/machine-data

RDFa does not create the same problems, because it adds extension points 
for this purpose (the content attribute on every element, primarily).


http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#rdfa-attributes

+ Distributed extensibility

You can unilaterally make up your own vocabulary in RDFa, but not 
microformats, which must be developed and standardized through the 
microformats community process. (Of course, you can make up markup 
patterns that can be used to extract metadata - but those aren't 
official microformats.) Whether this is good or bad perhaps depends on 
how widely useful your vocabulary would be.


--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis


***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
***